Instigator / Pro
16
1731
rating
167
debates
73.05%
won
Topic
#2824

Resolved: Being Gay is a Choice

Status
Finished

The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.

Winner & statistics
Better arguments
0
15
Better sources
8
10
Better legibility
4
5
Better conduct
4
2

After 5 votes and with 16 points ahead, the winner is...

Theweakeredge
Parameters
Publication date
Last updated date
Type
Standard
Number of rounds
4
Time for argument
Two weeks
Max argument characters
15,000
Voting period
One month
Point system
Multiple criterions
Voting system
Open
Contender / Con
32
1706
rating
33
debates
80.3%
won
Description

Definitions:
Gay: (of a human) The sexual orientation of being homosexual, i.e. being attracted to one's own gender
Choice: The act of selecting or making a decision between 2 or more possibilities

Burden of Proof is shared. Con must prove that being Gay is not a choice.

Anyways, Good Luck!

-->
@Theweakeredge

That's all I was referring to. People who were at one point attracted to people of the same gender, but they are now attracted to people of the opposite gender. By choice. Are you going to deny their experience?

-->
@Theweakeredge

Interesting. Why do you think choosing struggle and persecution for what you love is less heroic than being thrust into that situation by genetics?

-->
@Fruit_Inspector

There is no such thing as a "homosexual lifestyle" that is reinforcing stereotypes about homosexual people - homosexual people are all sorts of people, the only common factor being attracted to the same gender

-->
@Bringerofrain

To suggest that homosexuality is a "choice" would be to invalidate the struggles of an entire oppressed people - to say that these people could simply "choose" to stop be persecuted, and rejected by their parents, and thrown out onto the streets.

There are no struggles societally by being heterosexual - perhaps by being a creep, but not the mere truth of being heterosexual - you would be incorrect, but not bigoted.

-->
@Theweakeredge

Would thinking heterosexuality a choice make you heterophobic?

Does it change if it is bigoted if it is also true?

-->
@Theweakeredge

I actually agree that it would be very difficult to argue a position that I did not agree with. But believing that homosexuality is a choice does not make one homophobic. I have no irrational fear toward homosexuals. Nor do I harbor any kind of hatred toward them. But I do know there are many people who chose a homosexual lifestyle, and then came out by choice. You can argue as to why that may be, but that at least supports the idea that SOME people choose to be homosexuals.

-->
@bmdrocks21

Propagating the idea that being homosexual is "a choice", is something which has caused countless experiences of abuse, torment, and fear. I do not have any amount of respect for the people who would wish to continue spreading the falsity. I will behave civilly in the debate itself and do my best to not let my arguments be colored by my anger, but how about you have this thing called empathy? Your actions, words, and debates affect other people.

-->
@bmdrocks21

You see it doesn't matter if it would increase my ability to debate - I have more value in not harming somebody than expanding my horizons. First of all - if you believe that being gay is a choice you are a homophobe, that's as far as it gets. Furthermore - I will not argue for a position that I do not agree with, period. Yes, I realize that it is necessary in formal debate competition; however, it is antithetical to the point of debate - to arrive at the truth of the resolution asserted.

-->
@Fruit_Inspector

I don't know if that is necessarily the case. Pro said that he thought his opponent's definitions were better, so I'll have to take him at his word (even if that is a possible cause that you asserted. Thought the comment section was very weird on this one, con talking about how enraged he was and how homophobic pro is. Seemed like unsportsmanlike slander, considering Intelligence is leagues away from what could be considered a 'homophobe'.)

But regardless, there is never a good reason to concede. At the very least, pro should attempt to take a good devil's advocate position to better learn a position he disagrees with. I've slightly changed my positions during some of my debates, but I stuck with my position and did my best. It is harder to argue points you disagree with and is good practice.

-->
@bmdrocks21

He gave into the whole "you questioning anything I say means you are a terrible human being who hates me" game.

Oh come on! Never concede!

-->
@Intelligence_06

Poorly arguing for a harmful act regardless of if you believe it? Tell me this isn't a filibuster Intelligence.

Maybe I am just a debater with the utmost goal of winning debates, but if I were to accept a debate as “offensive” as you would see this one, the first reaction would be to laugh because it would be so easy to win standing on the “right side” of morality.

That said, this is a debating ground, not a political filibuster. I am just making conclusions upon sources, whether I believe in them or not.

Just remember how easy it is for you to win this, TheWeakeredge.

-->
@gugigor

That is not the case.

If I wanted to I could have argued that nobody has free will to do anything, determinism. It is simply a biological truth that you can't determine who you are attracted to.

I detest homophobia, and if I had more room I would have put in more arguments that were more varied, as it was, I only had room for that.

-->
@Theweakeredge

your argument looks suspiciously similar to your anti-free will argument... but I guess it's different since this topic is more reasonable to use "you have no free will in sexuality" XD

-->
@Intelligence_06

ROUND I DEFINITIONS
[A] https://dictionary.apa.org/gay
[A-1] https://www.apa.org/about
[B] https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/choice
[C] https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/choose
[D] https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/being
[E] https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/identify?q=identifying
[F] https://dictionary.apa.org/love
[1] https://kidshealth.org/en/parents/sexual-orientation.html
[2] https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/lgbtq-rights/news/2017/05/02/429529/widespread-discrimination-continues-shape-lgbt-peoples-lives-subtle-significant-ways/
[3] https://www.usd.edu/diversity-and-inclusiveness/office-for-diversity/safe-zone-training/sexual-orientation-versus-romantic-orientation
[4] https://www.pbs.org/newshour/science/there-is-no-gay-gene-there-is-no-straight-gene-sexuality-is-just-complex-study-confirms
[5] https://www.healthline.com/health/healthy-sex/lust-vs-love-signs#1
[6] https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2019/08/genetics-may-explain-25-same-sex-behavior-giant-analysis-reveals
[7] https://www.cancer.org/healthy/stay-away-from-tobacco/why-people-start-using-tobacco.html
[8] https://www.acsh.org/news/2018/02/03/does-our-biology-determine-who-we-find-attractive-12518

-->
@Intelligence_06

Your definitions are bullshit - oh - sorry I let some of my UNDYING RAGE through my keyboard.

I apologize for the wait, I had to fragment write this as to not let any of my anger color my debating. I hope you are okay with my opinion of you forever being negative, as something which you have asserted is so homophobic I'm having a hard time staying civil.

Facts don't matter more than feelings, that's just how you feel about them. Xoxo

-->
@RationalMadman

I am a man of definitions, and facts matter more than feelings. I am not saying that "they chose to be gay" in the form you said, I am just playing by the definitions provided.

-->
@Intelligence_06

People have been beaten to a fucking pulp because of being gay. Beaten, humiliated, tormented, scared shit. It is not a choice. Noone would choose to be gay if you knew what it costed them to be it.

-->
@RationalMadman

Rather, saying “you should change back to straight because you being gay is a choice” is homophobic. Just saying being gay is a choice is a neutral stance, not homophobic.

-->
@RationalMadman

...fine, just don’t vote with bias. I promise I am not trying to be homophobic, but whatever you think, don’t get carried away when voting.

-->
@Intelligence_06

It is homophobic to be Pro on this topic. I do not care what you say.

-->
@RationalMadman

Neither of us is being homophobic. I think you are misinterpreting the topic or my arguments.

Hall of fame worthy debate: pro-homophobia.

#ofcourse
#hofforsure

-->
@Intelligence_06

Okay... as somebody who discovered that they were pan, this really pissed me off. I know it wasn't intentional, but.... jeez the assumptions being made. You'll see when I make the argument.

-->
@Theweakeredge

Time to bring out Alex O'Connor

*wakes up*

yknow, I think I'll start liking dick now

Just saying, I am not homophobic of any sort.

-->
@Intelligence_06

Well, that's quite flattering, thanks for that. I hope the debates as good as you make it out to be.

-->
@Theweakeredge

Not saying my argument is HoF worthy though, as some extremely good debaters have themselves against a no-show or a concede. Based on your skill, I believe this debate could be worth a shot to HoF.

-->
@Intelligence_06

Well hopefully I can put up a substantial competition for your HoF worthy argument, we always have a good time here, so I'm looking forward to it.

Looks like this is gonna be HoF worthy. I spent 3 nights drafting an over-10000 argument for this.