Instigator / Con
19
1448
rating
26
debates
26.92%
won
Topic

Ordering drinks with no ice at a fastfood drive-thru

Status
Finished

All stages have been completed. The voting points distribution and the result are presented below.

Arguments points
6
9
Sources points
6
8
Spelling and grammar points
4
5
Conduct points
3
3

With 5 votes and 6 points ahead, the winner is ...

Raltar
Parameters
More details
Publication date
Last update date
Category
People
Time for argument
Three days
Voting system
Open voting
Voting period
One month
Point system
Four points
Rating mode
Rated
Characters per argument
3,000
Contender / Pro
25
1540
rating
4
debates
100.0%
won
Description
~ 98 / 5,000

Anyone who is stupid enough to order drinks without ice in the drive-thru is welcome to debate me.

Round 1
Con
The resolution is "Ordering Drinks with no ice at a fastfood drive-thru"

Both debaters have an equal burden of proof because this is just asking which one is generally best, ordering with ice or without.


1. In drive-thrus the drink stations for making drinks typically have buttons that once pressed automatically fill the cup, which usually assume the cupe is filled with anywhere between 50%-75% ice depending what the company prefers. When you ask for no ice, the drink making is no longer automatic and the drinks must be manually made by holding down a button, which prevents the employee from bagging the order or making the specialty drinks or floats while the drink machine is pouring. This may seem like it is just a few second delay, but customers are usually more loyal to the drive-thru itself than any particular fast food chain. This means  when you order a drink with no ice, you rudely force the people behind you to wait longer for food, and potentially cause a longer line to form driving disloyal customers to the fastfood chain next door. This loss of customers mean less profit and eventially the cost of drinks will rise even more, hurting your pocket book in the long run.

2. The drinks without ice are hot. They are slightly below room temperature and honestly taste like shit. With a few exceptions, most people ordering drink with no ice are getting at most 2 or 3 extra sips of soda, but it is hot shitty tasting soda. Even at slightly below room temperature coming out of the machine, it takes most people atleast 20 minutes to drink the soda, meaning that after about 5 minutes they're just drinking hot soda. It's honestly retarded. They the extra few sips of soda is not worth it.

3. The most common drinks ordered in the drive-thru are high calorie drinks. When you order them without ice, really you are just being a fat ass. We know the drink tastes like shit without ice, so now all you are doing is just looking to shove as much excess calories into your body as possible at this point. It's just like the idiots who want their sandwiches custom made. There are chefs that make well into the 6 figures in a test kitchen who have studied food and food combinations their whole life, before a fastfood joint rolls out a product, anyone who thinks they can improve on what those people create by saying something stupid like "Extra Pickles Please", is either a professional colleague who happens to disagree, or some retard who needs to be sterilized.


Conclusion- Please Do not be a fat ass, who holds up the line and drives up the cost of delicious beverages by being an idiot who asks for no ice. (Please disregard if you have teeth or gum sensitivity.
Pro
The claims made by my opponent (with no sources to support them) show that he is taking the position of the employee and/or owner of a fast food chain that feels inconvenienced by customers who make special orders, such as requesting a beverage without ice. However, this indirectly points to the exact reason why customers are and should be allowed to order beverages without ice; Customer preference and customer service!

First of all, as is well known, ordering a beverage without ice allows the customer to get more beverage;

When ordering a drink at a coffee shop or bar, there's nothing worse than getting too much ice. Businesses occasionally do this to fleece customers out of a full drink. Consequently, a generation of beverage connoisseurs have begun ordering drinks with an explicit request: no ice please.

And despite my opponent claiming that ordering without ice only gives you "a few sips" more, the reality is that the amount of ice served in many beverages occupies half the cup or more! Businesses actually know this and sometimes try to penalize customers who order without ice by serving only half a beverage, as in this example;

When she finally called me over to get my drink, I was handed... half a cup of lukewarm chai. I thought maybe she had forgotten to add milk or something, so I asked why it was so empty. She said, very simply, deadpanned even, "That's what you get when you ask for no ice." I asked why that is and her response was, "We usually fill it up all the way with ice."

Businesses that try to force customers to accept ice against their wishes or refuse to allow special orders like this are going to likely offend and drive away otherwise loyal customers. Allowing special orders such as 'no ice' will build brand loyalty, which was the goal of Burger King's longstanding slogan;

"Hold the pickles, hold the lettuce. Special orders don't upset us. All we ask is that you let us serve it your way!"

Ironically, my opponent actually uses special orders where customers attempt to change the pickles on their sandwich as an opportunity to attack "retards" who would choose to do this, but Yelp user 'Mary M.' has a rebuttal for that;

McDonald's was so pissy about "special orders" that I never bothered to eat there.  Sorry, no, I don't want a pickle on my hamburger, I think that's vile, I'll do without your nastyburger rather than eat it with a pickle on it.

So as we can see, customers will take their business elsewhere when stubborn fast-food employees try to push back against special orders such as requesting a beverage without ice.

On top of everything else, the ice machines at fast food restaurants are often filthy!

Over the past decade, several studies have been done that have warned people of ice and ice machine contamination, including a study done by The Mail on fast-food franchises that found ice from six out of 10 fast food restaurants has more bacteria than toilet water.

Suffice to say; "No ice please!"
Round 2
Con
I just have a a few minutes to argue this but, we aren't debating whether places should allow special orders, but debating whether customers should order drinks with no ice. Ice machines being dirty was tested in dining rooms, in thee kitchen ice usually comes in a kind of chest where customers can't get their grubby hands on it and contaminate it. My points about excess calories and causing customers higher drink prices, as well as rudely holding up the line have been dropped and I do not extend them, my opponent had his chance to respond and failed to do so
Pro
My opponent makes a very brief argument with no sources, but accuses me of supposedly not responding to several of the more childish claims from his opening statements. However, the audience should be reminded that opening statements are for making initial arguments. My rebuttals actually begin here.

First, let's look at my opponent's behavior;

Anyone who is stupid enough...

...you are just being a fat ass.

...some retard who needs to be sterilized.

...an idiot who asks for no ice.
Most of my opponent's argument boils down to these sorts of simple and ad hominem insults. He accuses me of supposedly not responding to his points, and yet he himself has not responded to my point that treating his customers in this disgusting manner will drive them away. Alternatively, just showing his customers some basic respect by acknowledging that they have valid reasons for requesting a beverage without ice would be to his own advantage.

...customers higher drink prices...

My opponent claimed (with no source to support the claim) that drink prices would increase because customers who order a beverage with no ice are holding up the line. Even if we give him the benefit of the doubt and assume this is true, I have already demonstrated that his own attitude toward his customers is driving them away. So my opponent himself is driving up the price of beverages. 

...in thee kitchen ice usually comes in a kind of chest where customers can't get their grubby hands on it...

The source I provided states that the reason for unclean ice machines was that employees fail to clean the machine regularly. My opponent's claim about the ice coming from a "chest" also contradicts his opening statement where he insisted a machine automatically fills the cups with a set percentage of ice. 

My points about excess calories...

My opponent broadly accuses everyone who orders a beverage without ice of being a "fat ass" with minimal evidence to support such an attack. In fact, I personally consume these types of beverages regularly and without ice, yet I am neither overweight nor unhealthy. My opponent's claim is baseless and unsubstantiated, in addition to being an ad hominem logical fallacy

[We are] debating whether customers should order drinks with no ice.
Which is exactly what I have done. I have demonstrated that the reason to order a beverage without ice is to avoid bacteria ridden ice machines and to get a larger quantity of beverage. This is in the interest of the customer ordering the beverage, but is also in the interest of the business since pushing back against special orders of this type will cause customers to take their business elsewhere. 
Round 3
Con
Let's look at the resolution again. Here it is:

Ordering drinks with no ice at a fastfood drive-thru

I am con on this issue. My opponent is pro. It is not a debate on whether customers should be allowed special orders or to order drinks with no ice. They clearly should be allowed to order drinks with no ice. It is about "should" they order drinks with no ice. I have to prove most of the time they shouldn't, my opponent has to prove most of the time they should.

Reasons I gave that they should get ice; more empty calories making them fatter, drink tastes like shit hot, increases the customer's wait time behind them, ultimately increasing drink prices.

Pro has not contested any of these things successfully or has dropped them completely. Despite my poor performance he has surprisingly performed worse thus far.

The only point relative to the actual resolution of whether a customer should ask for no ice. is the fact he pointed out ice machines are disgusting. The studies he cites though test dining room ice machines where thousands of people put their filthy hands. I pointed out that in the drive trhough they use an ice bucket and in my store it is sanitized daily and so is the ice scoop that is used to gather ice. So drive through ice is way less filthy in general.


The source I provided states that the reason for unclean ice machines was that employees fail to clean the machine regularly. My opponent's claim about the ice coming from a "chest" also contradicts his opening statement where he insisted a machine automatically fills the cups with a set percentage of ice. 

 a machine fills it with a set amount of beverage and companies have policies on how much to scoop into it. I have explained this.

-------

I should win this debate when we look at what was argued relative to the resolution which is "should customers get ice". They answer is yes. Now to address a few points nagging me.

I personally consume these types of beverages regularly and without ice, yet I am neither overweight nor unhealthy. My opponent's claim is baseless and unsubstantiated, in addition to being an ad hominem logical fallacy

Not everyone who smokes has lung cancer, that doesn't make it healthy. We all know coke is unhealthy so your statement is silly. Also calling people a fat ass is not ad hominem, not all insults are. An ad hominem attack is if I were to say something like "You can't trust his opinion on how to eat healthy, because he is black" If you use the insult as a way to dismiss an argument it then now sometimes become ad hominem.

My opponent keeps bringing up sources, I assume it is because the debate awards source points. The category should be ignored because this is largely a philosophical debate, and besides that I'm an expert on the subject because I have been working at fastfood since 1999. Him quoting articles by experts is not superior source material than an actual expert engaging in a debate with him. It doesn't make me automatically right,but I am
Pro
The only point relative to the actual resolution [...] is the fact he pointed out ice machines are disgusting.
I'm sad to see that as we come to the end of this debate, my opponent has become so desperate that he has decided to begin merely lying to the audience in a final desperate attempt to stave off defeat.

My opponent lies to you now, claiming that I provided only one reason to order a drink without ice. In fact, he himself witnessed that I provided three;

  1. As admitted by my opponent, companies fill cups with "50% to 75%" ice before they even begin pouring your beverage, which results in you receiving less than half the beverage you paid for. Therefore, ordering without ice allows you to receive the full amount of beverage you paid for, rather than be fleeced out of a full drink by a greedy corporation.

  2. Ice machines (including those used in the drive thru) were found to have "more bacteria than toilet water!" Avoiding having such contaminated ice added to your beverage is an obvious reason to order without ice.

  3. My opponent claims that ordering a beverage without ice will inconvenience him so badly that it will slow down service at his restaurant, which in turn will drive customers away, and that he will retaliate by charging more for his beverages. However, I countered this claim by pointing out that his own hateful and insulting attitude toward his "fat ass" and "retard" customers whom he wants to "sterilize" is having the exact same effect. When businesses push back against special orders, customers take their business elsewhere, which by my opponent's logic will increase the price of beverages. So it is in the best interest of everyone, my opponent included, that he change his attitude toward customers who order beverages without ice.
My opponent lies and pretends that two of these reasons were never stated, when the reality is that he never thought of any rebuttal for them. In two of these cases, his own logic worked against him. He himself (in his "expert" opinion as a fast food employee) provided the admission that he fills cups more than half-way with ice before even starting to pour the beverage. He himself admitted that driving customers away will punish everyone by increasing prices. His own arguments worked against him while he failed to think of any rebuttal other than hurling more insults.


I have been working at fastfood since 1999.
Appeal to Authority Fallacy. He isn't right merely by being an expert if his argument is flawed.


The studies he cites though test dining room ice machines where thousands of people put their filthy hands.
Another lie. Not only were drive thru machines tested, but the source I provided in round 1 specifically blamed employees for the contamination;

...their hands could easily bump the ice while scooping with a glass or even the scoop’s handle could touch the ice after an employee handles it.


Bottom line; I provided legitimate reasons to support my viewpoint. My opponent repeatedly lied and insulted you.