Instigator / Con
29
1533
rating
2
debates
100.0%
won
Topic

The Claim That The Christian God Exists

Status
Finished

All stages have been completed. The voting points distribution and the result are presented below.

Arguments points
9
6
Sources points
10
10
Spelling and grammar points
5
4
Conduct points
5
5

With 5 votes and 4 points ahead, the winner is ...

BrutalTruth
Parameters
More details
Publication date
Last update date
Category
Religion
Time for argument
Three days
Voting system
Open voting
Voting period
One week
Point system
Four points
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Rated
Characters per argument
30,000
Contender / Pro
25
1508
rating
4
debates
62.5%
won
Description
~ 418 / 5,000

Pro claims that the Christian god exists. Pro will argue for that claim. Con will argue against that claim.
Mopac is Pro. BrutalTruth is Con.

Pertinent Information: The god in question is a Christian diety. Therefore, the god in question can only be defined by the Christian bible. Any sources used(including, but not limited to, dictionaries) must be definitively consistent with said bible's definition of said god.

Round 1
Con
Introduction

I'm not one for brown nosing the voters with pleasantries and nice words to my opponent. I am straight to the point and emotionally indifferent. With that said, allow me to begin my opening arguments.

What Is The Christian God?

The Christian bible does not give any definition of the Christian god. In fact, the Christian bible doesn't even attempt to prove that the Christian god exists. For all intents and purposes, the Christian bible itself is, in fact, the only piece of "evidence" of the Christian god at all. I use "evidence" in quotes because the Christian bible is merely a book. A book is nothing more than several pieces of paper bound together with text filling the pages. Ergo, a book, in and of itself, cannot serve as evidence of anything other than:

  • The existence of paper
  • The existence of the material used to bind the book (leather, for example)
  • A being capable of making paper
  • A being capable of making the material used to bind the book
  • A being capable of binding together paper with the material used to bind the book
  • The existence of ink
  • A being capable of creating ink
  • A being capable of using ink to create text
  • The existence of a language
  • A being capable of writing said language on paper with ink

The Christian bible does, however, describe the Christian god in four ways:

  • God is spirit (John 4:24)
  • God is light (1 John 1:5)
  • God is love (1 John 4:16)
  • God is a consuming fire (Hebrews 12:29)
This is, however, irrelevant, as the Christian bible offers no evidence to prove its claims of the Christian god being spirit, light, love, or a consuming fire. Essentially, all the Christian bible actually does is make claims, and expect the reader to accept these claims as facts.


Why Merely Making Claims Isn't Enough

I think my opponent, and the reader, can agree that we are all human. There are only two forms of knowledge available to humans:

  • Knowledge a priori
  • Knowledge a posteriori
What Is Knowledge A Priori And A Posteriori?

Both of these terms refer to the method by which knowledge can be justifiably believed as true. To be justified in believing something is to have an epistemic reason to support it, or, more plainly stated: a reason for thinking it is true.

Knowldge a priori is knowledge that is justifiably believed to be true without the need of empirical experience. An example of knowledge a priori: All bachelors are unmarried. The term "bachelor" is defined as an unmarried male human by the English language. Therefore, a male human can only be classified as a bachelor if he is unmarried. Thus, if a male human is classified as a bachelor, then the male human is unmarried.

Knowledge a posteriori is knowledge that cannot be justifiably believed as true without empirical experience. An example of knowledge a posteriori: It is currently raining outside. One cannot know that it is currently raining outside without either seeing it, hearing it, smelling it, tasting it, or touching it. If one of these empirical senses have not experienced rain in the current time, then knowledge that it is currently raining is not justifiably believed as true.

The Christian God Is Claimed To Be An Entity

Unfortunately, the Christian god, being an actual entity, does not meet the criteria of something that can be known a priori. Entities are things that can only be known a posteriori. In other words: Only through empirical experience. If a human has not seen, heard, smelled, tasted, or touched this Christian god, then said human cannot justifiably believe that the Christian god exists.

In Conclusion

My conclusion is very simple: The Christian god is an entity, and an entity can only be known through empirical experience. Therefore, unless my opponent wants to prove that they have empirically experienced this Christian god, then they cannot justifiably believe that the Christian god exists, nor can they prove it exists.

References:

(1) The Christian bible

Pro
Christianity, at its core, is Monotheism. That is, the belief in One Supreme Being(1) as being worthy of being called God. The Existence(2) highest in authority(3) as understood in Orthodox(4) Christian theology(5) is The Supreme and Ultimate Reality(6). What that means is The best, most extreme, basic, fundamental, reality that is the source and cause from which everything arises, incapable of division and separation(7).

Or really quite simply, THE ABSOLUTE TRUTH AS IT TRULY IS.

 It is written

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not."(8)

So what is this Word? It is also written...

"Do not err, my beloved brethren. Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning. Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth"(9)

So the word is TRUTH, and The Word was in the beginning of God and with God. So God is The Truth, as is God's Word.

What is it that activates this? For you to believe that The Word is what The Word says it is, God Almighty, The Truth, The Spirit of Truth must be there to activate it. 

"But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you."(10)

"But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me"(11)

and

"when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak:"(12)


So Christianity understands God through The Trinity, which is Father, Son, Holy Ghost. 

As demontrated, The Son is The Word of Truth, and The Holy Ghost is The Spirit of Truth.

But to make even clearer what The Son is, for "The Son is One Essence with The Father"(13),  and what The Word means, it is written..

"giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: in whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: for by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: and he is before all things, and by him all things consist."(14)

So The Son is the image of the invisible God, The Word of God. If you know The Son, you know The Father, as it is also written..

"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us. Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father? Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works’ sake."(15)


So what ties The Trinity all together? What is the one thing that unites them all together so that we can say they are distinct but at the same time, One God, One Essence, and Undivided?(16)


THE TRUTH

So it is through belief in The Trinity, a confession of The Oneness of The Truth. The Supreme and Ultimate Reality. 


The Christian God exists, because The Christian God is The Truth.


And even if you don't understand The Bible or Christianity, even if you believe in all sorts of things about the truth, I would hope that we all can at least agree that The Truth exists. As the God that Christians worship is The Truth, well...

The Christian God Exists


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Definition 1 (in Christianity and other monotheistic religions) the creator and ruler of the universe and source of all moral authority; the supreme being.


Definition 1 mass noun Existence.

Definition 1 Highest in rank or authority.

Definition 1 Following or conforming to the traditional or generally accepted rules or beliefs of a religion, philosophy, or practice.

Definition 1 The study of the nature of God and religious belief.

Definition 1 capitalized the supreme or ultimate reality

Definition 1 c he best or most extreme of its kind : Utmost
Definition 3 a the source or cause from which something arises
Definition 3 b Basic, Fundamental
Definition 3 c incapable of further analysis, division, or separation

(8) The Gospel of John 1:1-5

(9) The Epistle of James 1:16-18

(10) The Gospel of John 14:26

(11) The Gospel of John 15:26

(12) The Gospel of John 16:13

The Nicene Creed states "And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the only-begotten, begotten of the Father before all ages. Light of Light; true God of true God; begotten, not made; of one essence with the Father, by whom all things were made"

(14) The Epistle of Colossians 1:12-17

(15) The Gospel of John 14:6-11

Round 2
Con
Christianity, at its core, is Monotheism. That is, the belief in One Supreme Being(1) as being worthy of being called God. The Existence(2) highest in authority(3) as understood in Orthodox(4) Christian theology(5) is The Supreme and Ultimate Reality(6). What that means is The best, most extreme, basic, fundamental, reality that is the source and cause from which everything arises, incapable of division and separation(7).

Refutation

Above is the entire premise for my opponent's argument, thus their argument is refuted before it even begins. Let me explain: We are debating the existence of the Christian god here. The only sources my opponent has used are several English dictionaries, none of which are endorsed by any Christian religion as having the authority to define, nor describe, the god of the Christian religion. That being said, my opponent's entire premise is rendered false, and, by proxy, their entire argument.

Further Arguments

As for the rest of my opponent's argument: They claim that the Christian god exists because it is "the truth." My opponent references the Christian bible with these claims. However, my opponent offers no evidence nor proof of the Christian bible's claims being true, thus again their argument is false. Let me make it very clear how this works: My opponent is the one making the claim, thus the burden of proof is theirs. One needs to do more than quote a book to prove an entity exists.

Conclusion

As I said in the description of this debate, the Christian god can only be defined by the Christian bible. The sources used for my opponent's semantic argumentation hold no authority to define this god, thus the premise for their argument is entirely false. If my opponent wishes to continue with definitions of this god, they must be consistent with the Christian bible's definition of it(see my opening argument for said definition, which my opponent has yet to even respond to, much less refute)The Christian bible does not define, nor describe, the Christian god as an "ultimate reality," thus the definitions my opponent has given are inconsistent with the Christian bible's definition/description of the Christian god, thereby rendering false his argument. While this alone renders the rest of my opponent's argument false, it can also be said that my opponent offers no evidence nor proof for it, thus even if their arguments weren't already rendered false, the claims their arguments rest upon are yet unproven, thus their argument is utterly refuted anyway.
Pro
We are debating the existence of the Christian god here. The only sources my opponent has used are several English dictionaries, none of which are endorsed by any Christian religion as having the authority to define, nor describe, the god of the Christian religion. That being said, my opponent's entire premise is rendered false, and, by proxy, their entire argument.


The instigator of this argument is missing the entire point of my argument.

Instigator, in his haste, decided to refute my opening statement without fully comprehending how the rest of what I posted, sourced from The Bible, shows that two of the most academically respected dictionaries of the English language are accurate to the Christian conception of God, which is in fact older than the English language. The Christian God most certainly is The Truth, and Merriam Webster acknowledges this by defining God with a capital G as "The Supreme or Ultimate Reality". Oxford Also acknowledges this by defining God as "The Supreme Being", both of which are different ways of saying the same thing. I have demonstrated in my argument that The Word of God is Truth, and that The Word of God is The Most Perfect Image of God. I have demonstrated that The Holy Spirit is The Spirit of Truth. 

So if The Most Perfect Image of God is Truth, and with The Spirit of Truth we know God through this Image, what does that mean? It means that God is THE TRUTH AS IT TRULY IS, and this is expressed through the doctrine of The Trinity.  

So what am I establishing? Instigator had terms before my accepting this debate that whatever dictionaries I used were consistent with the biblical understanding of God. I have demonstrated that the definitions that I referenced are absolutely valid, and in doing so have established that The God that Christianity recognizes, and besides... THE ONLY GOD THAT I, A CHRISTIAN, PERSONALLY ACKNOWLEDGE IS THE TRUTH.

Now, there is absolutely no debate about whether or not The Truth exists, and Instigator knows this very well. In fact, all atheists know this very well. That is why the only possible route that an atheist can use in order to debate the existence of God is to attack a straw man by making God something other than The Truth.

Now, I have chosen to use these dictionaries and the bible to prove my point about this, but if I wanted to, there are thousands of years worth of theological writings that establish a consistent understanding in Orthodox Theology that the God of Christianity is The Truth. 

In fact, nothing about Christianity will even make sense without this understanding. Of what profit is it to strive for dispassion and the conquering of the lusts of mind in flesh? Why not just live a life of bestial hedonism? Because if you love THE TRUTH, living for the sake of vain indulgence is in opposition to this as it makes you blind to reality.




As for the rest of my opponent's argument: They claim that the Christian god exists because it is "the truth." My opponent references the Christian bible with these claims. However, my opponent offers no evidence nor proof of the Christian bible's claims being true, thus again their argument is false. Let me make it very clear how this works: My opponent is the one making the claim, thus the burden of proof is theirs. One needs to do more than quote a book to prove an entity exists.

The God I am speaking of is literally THE TRUTH. Not, this conception of God is the truth, but THE TRUTH IS GOD. There is a difference. 

Instigator is saying, to rephrase...

"Prove to me it is true that there is truth!"

It is absolutely unnecessary and distracting from my argument to prove that the bible's claims are true. The point here is that whatever the bible says, the God of Christianity is THE ABSOLUTE TRUTH. That is what God means, nothing else. 

How do you prove that The Truth exists? It seems absurd to think that the existence of The Truth could be proven by using appeals to Truth. If you doubt The Truth exists, do you not at least know that it is true that you have doubts? It's an unreasonable demand, to ask for proof of the truth.

What else is unreasonable? To say, "It is The Truth that there is no truth!" or "The Truth is a lie!"


We all know The Truth exists, I would hope, and The Christian God is literally The Truth. This is not only The God of Christianity, but Lord Over All whether or not they choose to acknowledge this.



"To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice."




The only argument atheists have against God is to make God something other than what God is, which is THE TRUTH. 


And if Instigator continues to use a straw man, false god, or lying vanity in the place of The God of Christianity, which is THE TRUTH, he will be guilty of the fallacy of INVINCIBLE IGNORANCE(2) and there is no argument I could possibly make that would be sufficient enough for instigator to accept his argument as being invalid.




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

(1) John 18:37

invincible ignorance -- the fallacy of insisting on the legitimacy of one's position in the face of contradictory facts. Statements like "I really don't care what the experts say; no one is going to convince me that I'm wrong"; "nothing you say is going to change my mind"; "yeah, okay, whatever!" are examples of this fallacy.


Round 3
Con
What my opponent has done, with their arguments and references, is prove that the Christian bible claims that the Christian god is "the truth." I have gone over my opponent's argument over and over, just to make sure I'm not missing anything, and have been unable to find where my opponent specifies what this "truth" is. There are many truths in the world. For example: Fire is hot, ice is cold, trees are mostly green, metal is hard. These are all truths, proven by the empirical observation of tangible reality. What truth is my opponent claiming this god is? All truths? For the sake of argument, let's assume that: My opponent is claiming that the Christian god embodies all truths in existence, and is the source of all these truths. With that I ask: Where is the proof? The fact remains that a book, bible or dictionary or any other book, alone does not serve as evidence nor proof. My opponent has proven that a book says the Christian god is the truth sure enough, but where is the proof of this claim being true? Before one can prove that the Christian god is truth, one must first prove the Christian god even exists, for something that does not exist cannot be anything at all, truth or otherwise. We are therefore right back to square one.

The fact remains that my opponent has done nothing but make a host of claims, and show how a few books agree with these claims. My opponent has yet to prove these claims to be facts of reality; They have yet to prove that the Christian god even exists, much less is any "truth." Until my opponent proves these things, their claims and arguments remain worthless and void of merit. Indeed if my opponent's argumentation had any merit, then every bible of every religion would serve as proof that they all exist, which would cancel them all out, since most religions claim their gods to be "the one true God."

Just for good measure, I'm going to follow my opponent's logic in an attempt to prove that leprechauns exist:

leprechaun

lep·re·chaun | \ˈle-prə-ˌkän,  -ˌkȯn\
Definition of leprechaun 

: a mischievous elf (see ELF sense 1) of Irish folklore usually believed to reveal the hiding place of treasure if caught(1)

As one can see, the Mirriam Webster dictionary says that a leprechaun is a mischievous elf that hides treasure. Because this dictionary acknowledges this, leprechauns must exist, right?

Ridiculous arguments will be ridiculous arguments.

Sources


Pro
Instigator states...

What my opponent has done, with their arguments and references, is prove that the Christian bible claims that the Christian god is "the truth." I have gone over my opponent's argument over and over, just to make sure I'm not missing anything, and have been unable to find where my opponent specifies what this "truth" is. There are many truths in the world. For example: Fire is hot, ice is cold, trees are mostly green, metal is hard. These are all truths, proven by the empirical observation of tangible reality. What truth is my opponent claiming this god is? All truths? For the sake of argument, let's assume that: My opponent is claiming that the Christian god embodies all truths in existence, and is the source of all these truths. With that I ask: Where is the proof? The fact remains that a book, bible or dictionary or any other book, alone does not serve as evidence nor proof. My opponent has proven that a book says the Christian god is the truth sure enough, but where is the proof of this claim being true? Before one can prove that the Christian god is truth, one must first prove the Christian god even exists, for something that does not exist cannot be anything at all, truth or otherwise. We are therefore right back to square one.

When I, and indeed the Bible are talking about The Truth, what is not being discussed is a truth, or all truths, but THE TRUTH ITSELF. What is The Truth itself? Well, if we could imagine asking God this question, and imagine a response back, the answer that God would give back with this understanding is...

" I AM THAT I AM"(1)

In other words, The Truth is whatever The Truth is. Reality as it really is. Actuality. The Absolute.

So that being the case, The One God is not the same as a truth. In fact, the mystery of the resurrection can be posited in another way,

"If a truth dies, does The Truth die?"

How can I explain this in another way? As of the time of this writing, Donald Trump is President of The United States of America. It is true that Donald Trump is the President. Before Donald Trump was The President, it was not true. After Donald Trump leaves office, it will not be true. So right now, when I say "Donald Trump is The President of The United States", it will be a true statement. If I were to say this in the future after Donald Trump has left office, "Donald Trump is The President of The United States", it will not be true. So in this particular sense, you can say, "a truth has died". What that means is, this is truth is not eternal, it is a truth that has "died".

Now, if a truth dies, does that mean that The Truth dies? Of course not! In fact, The Truth itself will always be, even if everything in all of creation is destroyed. You can't kill The Truth. 

So Instigator can kill The Word of God by refusing to believe it is what it says it is, but even if Instigator crucifies Jesus, He will rise again, because The Truth is Eternal. The Word will always be with us, and even if this word is pronounced differently, the scriptures say, "our sufficiency is of God; who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life."

I am not trying to prove the existence of God with a book. I am establishing that the God that I speak of, and the God of Christianity is The Supreme and Ultimate Reality, which I have done, because this is a DEFINITION, and a definition is..

"a statement of the meaning of a word or word group or a sign or symbol"

or

"a statement expressing the essential nature of something"

or

"the action or the power of describing, explaining, or making definite and clear"(3)


And so I have thoroughly demonstrated that when I speak of God I am indeed speaking about THE ULTIMATE REALITY, and what that means is that there is literally nothing more true than God, and to make God something untrue is to not respect the definition of the word. 


As I believe I said earlier, the only atheist argument against God is to make God something other than what God is. Why is this the case? Because atheism is a position that is rooted in superstition(4). It is my sincere hope that Instigator abandons his superstitious position, and comes into acknowledgement of The Truth.


Instigator makes an argument that I feel is hardly worth addressing, but I will for the sake of being thorough... He claims that...

As one can see, the Mirriam(SIC) Webster dictionary says that a leprechaun is a mischievous elf that hides treasure. Because this dictionary acknowledges this, leprechauns must exist, right?

A Leprechaun, obviously, is not defined to be ULTIMATE REALITY. To say, "God exists because God is in the dictionary, so Leprechauns exist because leprechauns are in the dictionary" is a nonsensical argument, and my opponent knows this to be the case, because he is mocking what he falsely presupposes my argument to be. No, the purpose of definitions are to make clear what it is we are talking about. 

But yes, leprechauns actually exist as the definition says... In Irish folklore. In stories and fables. 


The God of Christianity exists, because The God that Christianity recognizes as being God is The Supreme and Ultimate Reality, a God that by necessity must exist for anything to be real or true at all. If nothing is ultimately real, you can't say anything is true and be telling the truth. If there is God, I can at least of a surety say one thing that is true....

GOD IS THE TRUTH


The Christian God exists, I am more certain of this than anything, and I would hope that others can be as certain through the reading of this debate.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

(1) Exodus 3:14

(2) 2 Corinthians 3:5-6


Definition of superstition 

1aa belief or practice resulting from ignorance, fear of the unknown, trust in magic or chance, or a false conception of causation
ban irrational abject attitude of mind toward the supernatural, nature, or God resulting from superstition
2a notion maintained despite evidence to the contrary

Round 4
Con
I now understand what my opponent is saying. I did before, but the argument seemed so ridiculous to me that I wanted to make sure I was understanding it correctly.

My opponent is claiming this this god is truth itself. They are simply wording it incorrectly. The correct way to word my opponent's claim is: "God is truth," not "God is the truth." The words "God is truth" imply that this god is the very essence of truth itself. The words "God is the truth" imply that this god is a specific truth, which is why I was confused.

That said, there is one major point of contention: Truth isn't a thing. It is an intellectual idea. If this world has a creator, that creator can only be a thing, as how could an intellectual idea create anything? Only an entity has the ability to affect the physical world, therefore if this god exists, and it is indeed the creator of all things, or even the creator of just one thing, then it is an entity, and an entity is not an intellectual idea, therefore an entity is not "truth." It really doesn't matter how many books define an entity as "truth," an entity's being is incompatible with the idea of what truth is.

I conclude that unless my opponent can either prove that an intellectual idea can create something/affect the physical world, or prove that an entity can be an intellectual idea, their entire premise is false, and they would have to prove that this god, indeed an entity, exists.

My opponent has the floor.
Pro
God is not simply "The Truth", God is The Supreme and Ultimate Reality, which by definition exists. That is what is meant by "The Truth".

And certainly, we have no problem confessing that reality exists. The Ultimate Reality is Reality in the truest sense, even the only absolutely true reality.


God is not an intellectual idea. If God only existed in thought, that would mean that thought was a greater reality than God. If that were the case, God wouldn't be "The Ultimate Reality", and the definition would not be fulfilled. 

On that note, if one would ponder the meaning of "The Ultimate Reality", and really grasp what this means, what we are talking about is really beyond defining. God is not contained in a definition. That which Truly Is, in a great way, is beyond our comprehension. If we could comprehend it, well, it wouldn't be what it is.



God is not merely an idea. We understand God, like all things, through concepts and images, but God itself is not these things. God is The Ultimate Reality.


That is why in Christian Theology we have The Trinity. The Trinity acknowledges that that what we see of God is The Image even though God is always there, in the Image and transcending the Image.

Father, Son, Holy Spirit.

The Supreme and Ultimate Reality, The Most Perfect Image and Word of Truth, and The Spirit of Truth.

When you have all three together, you have the Triune God, who is really One God. Not three Gods. Not a God in three parts. It is the mystery of the faith that is The Gospel in itself.


And so we believe on The Father, through The Son, by The Holy Spirit. 


Now without God, there could be nothing. If there is no ultimate reality, nothing is ultimately real. Clearly, there is some form of existence. If there is any reality to existence at all, that reality comes from God. Something must exist in truth. If it doesn't exist in truth, it doesn't exist. Nothing doesn't exist. Nothing is the absence of existence. Clearly there is something. Even illusory things exist in some sense. If nothing else, as perceptions. So even though these illusions are not ultimately real, they are real in some sense. That which is Ultimately Real is not an illusion, it is Reality as it Truly Is. That Reality as it Truly is we call God.



And without God, there could be nothing. Everything by necessity must come from God. If you understand that God is The Ultimate Reality, you can see how God is...

Omnipresent(1), everywhere at once, even nearer than your breath. You can't hide from God.

Omnipotent(2), wielding all power, force, authority. Indeed, God is the creator of ALL THINGS.

Omniscient(3), posessing all knowledge. If it can be known, it is known by God, because it is in God.


And accepting God's omnibenevolence(4) is a simple matter of taking Truth as the greatest good.




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

present in all places at all times

Almighty having absolute power over all

possessed of universal or complete knowledge

possessing perfect or unlimited goodness.
Round 5
Con
My opponent's premise and argument remains the same. Here it is:

God is The Supreme and Ultimate Reality, which by definition exists.
They "prove" this by showing how a dictionary says it, and the Christian bible agrees with the dictionary.

Unfortunately for my opponent, as I've said multiple times already, a couple of books saying "God is the Ultimate Reality/Supreme Being" does not prove that is the case. I hereby proclaim to my opponent's premise, and indeed entire argument as listed above, commits the logical fallacy Argumentum ad dictionarium, which is essentially the act of pulling out a dictionary to support your assertions. The definitions of words do not prove claims, unless the claim is that a word is defined a certain way. Since the claim is actually that a god exists, that is not the case, therefore my opponent's entire premise and argument is fallacious and thus invalid.

I rest my case.
Pro
Instigator is a textbook argument from invincible ignorance.


The Ultimate Reality is God. That is what the word "God" means.

The Ultimate Reality exists, because that is what The Ultimate Reality means.


God Exists.


This is The Christian God. 


This is what Orthodox Christianity teaches. 


I know what I believe in.