Instigator / Pro
3
1473
rating
4
debates
0.0%
won
Topic
#3295

The Black Pill Is True

Status
Finished

The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.

Winner & statistics
Better arguments
0
3
Better sources
2
2
Better legibility
1
1
Better conduct
0
1

After 1 vote and with 4 points ahead, the winner is...

Benjamin
Parameters
Publication date
Last updated date
Type
Standard
Number of rounds
3
Time for argument
Two days
Max argument characters
8,000
Voting period
One month
Point system
Multiple criterions
Voting system
Open
Contender / Con
7
1777
rating
79
debates
76.58%
won
Description

black pill: The "black pill" generally refers to a set of commonly held beliefs in incel communities, which include biological determinism, fatalism, and defeatism for unattractive people. Believers are referred to as being "blackpilled". Those who believe the blackpill believe sexual and romantic attraction is almost purely decided by ones looks and genetic features, they also believe ones looks are extremely important in terms of career and how people treat you. I will be defending this ideology.

Rules: none, just be open to learning on both sides.

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@Lemming

I agree, if someone wants a gf i think its fine to want that, even look for it. Guys who are not so blessed physically though i think shouldn't become attached to getting a gf and although they can still look for a gf they should probably spend more time on other stuff.

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@Exanimaa

Could be I don't have an accurate view of Black Pill viewpoint,

Just to me, is that the statement that if something appears to offer/be more beneficial, that it attracts people more than something that appears to 'not offer/be more beneficial.

Seems clear cut, so I'd assume Black Pill argues something 'more.

(Edit on reading #17)
Eh, to my thinking statistics don't matter so much as desire.
If one 'wants a girlfriend or boyfriend, I imagine they can improve themselves some, search till they find a person.

It's not a 'certainty, success or failure,
But I think they'd be able to succeed more often than not, so long as they have their head on straight, and are not mentally dysfunctional, cruel in word and deed. Able to identify people 'worth spending one's life with.

In that sense, it's what's inside, rather than outside mattering, to my mind.

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@Lemming

Yeah, id agree. Some people are best off not trying and focusing on other things. This is statistically true, no point worrying about it, swallow the white pill and become a wizard of pure stoic wisdom and if you happen to land a gf along the way then great. I think for some people you have to just focus on other things and accept that you may not get a gf.

being attractive isnt actually that subjective, ill prove it next round if benjy responds.

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@Lemming

Most blackpilled incels dont believe looks are all that matters, they just argue that its the most important think by far. I agree with that, dont listen to the articles, people dont like incels because they become radicalised and take their anger out on society, yet if you lurk in their threads theres much truth to what they say

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@Exanimaa

I'm not saying unattractive people have the exact same effort, as attractive people,
Because they don't, it's 'literally in the wording of Unattracting, attracting.
Though 'what people consider attractive varies from culture to culture.

But Black Pill, sounds like it's claiming that women 'only care about looks, and some individuals have no chance of getting with another person, so they ought not even try.

just because some people can survive jumping off a mountain, doesn't make it the rule. Some short men balding men may get girls, yet they're the exception not the rule. Just as some people may survive jumping out of an aeroplane, most wont. To use anecdotes about seeing one short man with a harem, to justify anyone being able to get a girlfriend is a gross negligence of the scientific data.

Well i wouldn't say im that blackpilled. Id say ones looks are 70% of attraction though. Your personality can somewhat influence how attractive someone views you, if you're sub 5 to a woman and you have a great personality, the most you can do is make it so she doesn't find you physically repulsive or "passable" based on your appearance. You can do this through personality. If she thinks you're a 6 yet you have a great personality you can get her to see you as a 7-7.5 physically. Looks are very important, more than people like to think, your personality influences your looks, yet your looks also influence how people perceive your personality too. It goes both ways, ultimately you have to reach a certain threshold looks wise before a woman would consider you dateable. If you don't reach it, you just wont be able to get with her. statistically speaking if a man is 5'4 he has to earn 200,000 more than a man who is 5'11 to be considered equally sexually desirable. If looks didn't matter, everyone would be bisexual.

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@Exanimaa

I'll admit,
Doesn't really seem feasible to argue that physical attraction has 'no power,
Humans rely on their eyes, visual images, first impressions,
Stands to reason it'll be important.

Your suggested black pill sounds a bit 'gray though,
A lighter shade of black so to speak.

People's choices can effect their looks, their mannerisms, actions.
There exist people attracted to what is inside a person, though that's not to say the outside 'doesn't tend to matter to people.
Still, when I Google Black Pill, result I get is

"Black Pill adherents believe that looks are genetically determined, and that women choose sexual partners based solely on physical features (“lookism”), so whether or not a person will be an incel is predetermined."

Just sounds 'way too self defeating to my ears,
To say 'solely physical features, and predetermined.
Ignoring causation that is, and speaking practically, by how people make choices, see choices available,
Predetermined doesn't matter 'too much, as an end is often not known, until one arrives.

Yes, and racial discrimination STILL exists in the workplace despite laws. I say we ought to have laws on anti discrimination for weight and height too.

Well, racism exists too.

The black pill is absolutely true. I have a good looking face, and even when I balloon up in weight, I still get massive pussy (not massive as in fat chicks). These ugly dudes, even when thin, just cannot compete with me.

92 short pupils and 117 controls who are of average stature matched for age and sex with a mean age range of 14.7 (13.4–15.7) years were given a questionnaire and so were parents and teachers to know how many pupils get bullied or perpetrate bullying. The study found that short boys were more likely to be bullied than boys of average stature, were significantly more likely to be upset when bullied, and were less likely to perpetrate bullying.

Voss, Jean; Mulligan (March 4, 2000). "Bullying in school: are short pupils at risk? Questionnaire study in a cohort". The BMJ. 320 (7235): 612–3. doi:10.1136/bmj.320.7235.612. ISSN 0959-8138. PMID 10698879.

Re et al. (2013) performed a review of existing evidence showing facial structure predicts perceptions of leadership capacity and outcomes of corporate and electoral success. They note an abundance of evidence showing characteristics such as fWHR, facial maturity (whether someone is "baby-faced"), and facial masculinity can all play a role.

They performed an experiment to test whether perceptions of height based on facial features influenced these factors as well. They found that facial maturity and perceived height from facial structure had the strongest influence on whether a man was perceived to be a good potential leader. When subjects were given the ability to modify faces to improve their leadership appearance, they enhanced facial cues of increased height.

50% of the top 100 Company CEO's are 6 foot plus despite being less than 10% of the male population, more brutal evidence that height equals leadership ability in the eyes of society.

Researchers in Sweden surveyed government data including 79% of all men born in Sweden in 1950–1981 to identify health outcomes for these men. They found that every extra 5 cm of height reduced suicide rates by 9%, such that the tallest men had half the suicide rate of shorter men.

They suggest several reasons for this difference. They note that shorter men tend to end up with lower socioeconomic status as they grow up, irrespective of their childhood social class. Additionally, as women judge shorter men negatively, they are therefore less likely to marry, which generally protects against suicide. An association between shorter height and higher risk of substance abuse was also found.

Magnusson PKE, Gunnell D, Tynelius P, Davey Smith G, Rasmussen F. 2005. Strong Inverse Association Between Height and Suicide in a Large Cohort of Swedish Men: Evidence of Early Life Origins of Suicidal Behavior? Am J Psychiatry. 162: 1373–1375.

You will be brutalised within the next round benjamin, its over for you.

For each two and a half inches of genetically determined extra height, a man was 12 percent more likely to work in a high-status job and earned an average $1,611 more a year,” reports The New York Times. As for women, “a 4.6-point increase in B.M.I. resulted in $4,200 less in annual income.” Say what?

Love at first site: DEBUNKED
Researchers attempted to evaluate what contributes to the love-at-first-sight (LAFS) phenomenon using an online study, a laboratory study, and three dating events. They found that the primary predictor was physical attractiveness.

The effect size for the physical attraction scores of the LAFS group with the no-LAFS group was enormous (t(91.45) = 15.12, p<.000, d = 3.16), and around 90% of the time, one could correctly predict love-at-first-sight based on the physical attractiveness ratings the subjects reported.

Physically attractive men tended to attain higher status in both the fraternity and dormitory samples with substantial effect sizes (mean r = .42).
One surprise in our data was that we did no find any evidence for this relation in either the sorority or the dormitory women (mean r = .10).
In combination these findings offer considerable support for the hypothesis that gender norms about negative emotion are involved: "Real" men are not supposed to feel and act afraid, sad, guilty, or vulnerable, and men who violate these gender expectations are less likely to be granted high status in face-to-face groups.
Status was not related to either Conscientiousness or Openness to Experience in any of our studies. These replicated null effects reinforce the view that in the informal social groups we have studies here, status functions differently that in organizational and professional groups, where task performance and achievement play a central role.

This is just the beginning Benjamin, next round you will be finished.

Sadly, there was about 6 other contentions i wanted to put in, yet i didn't have a big enough character limit. Didn't even get to go into how much less money short men earn, or how even babies are biased to attractive faces.