Instigator / Pro
1
1469
rating
341
debates
40.91%
won
Topic
#4412

God(The Father) is the HOLY SPIRIT .

Status
Finished

The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.

Winner & statistics
Winner
1
0

After 1 vote and with 1 point ahead, the winner is...

Mall
Parameters
Publication date
Last updated date
Type
Standard
Number of rounds
5
Time for argument
Three days
Max argument characters
30,000
Voting period
One month
Point system
Winner selection
Voting system
Open
Contender / Con
0
1500
rating
1
debates
0.0%
won
Description

Disclaimer : Regardless of the setup for voting win or lose, The aim of this interaction, Is for those that view it, Learn and or take away anything that will amount to any constructive value ultimately. So that counts as anything that'll cause one to reconsider an idea, Understand a subject better, Help build a greater wealth of knowledge getting closer to truth. When either of us has accomplished that with any individual here, That's who the victor of the debate becomes.

All subject matter here will be based on biblical scripture.

This topic is more so for the folks that believe in separate persons in all like that.

I commonly see the topic of "Jesus is God".
So as a change of pace, therefore this variation of the discussion has been introduced.

Questions on the topic, please leave them in the comments.

Round 1
Pro
#1
Building the foundation of God the Father.

1 Corinthians 8:6

"yet for us there is one God, the Father"

God declares God as holy.

Leviticus 11

"44 for I am the Lord your God and you are to sanctify yourselves and be holy because I am holy."

God is holy .....and is a.....John 4:24

"24 God is spirit"

God the Father is both holy and spirit.

Well no debate here but it's good to learn.






Con
#2
In the Pro's first argument, they note from scripture that God is described as Father, that God declares himself as holy, and that God is spirit.  While these are all true, God the Father does not equal God the Holy Spirit.  To confuse this is to ascribe to ancient trinitarian heresies.  God describing himself as holy is to describe his character, just like we would describe Jesus as holy, the Holy Spirit as holy, and even that we may be holy (see the previous argument from Leviticus 11:44 and 1 Peter 1:15-16).  It is part of his character that he is a holy God, but holiness is not limited to God the Father.

In the same way, the word "spirit" can be used for multiple things as a state or nature.  Yes, as John 4:24 states, God is spirit, but we also know that spirit can be attributed to God the Holy Spirit (see ), to the spirits of people (see 2 Corinthians 7:1), and even to evil spirits (see Acts 19:13-16).  To sporadically take verses that claim God as holy and God as spirit and join them together without context is a dangerous hermeneutical method.  

Instead, I will argue for traditional trinitarian theology in the following arguments, which notes that there are three persons in the Godhead, God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit.  Each of these is equal in power and glory without confusion.  Each of them is God, but they are not each other (therefore, God the Father does not equal God the Holy Spirit).  There is one Godhead, but three persons which eternally exist.
Round 2
Pro
#3
"While these are all true, God the Father does not equal God the Holy Spirit.  "

This is coming across as conflicting. I guess when you say God the Father does not "equal " God the Holy Spirit, "equal" is another word for "mean".

All the divided or separate scriptures that state what God is line upon line says what He is. To say it doesn't mean that is going contrary. Unless you mean something different by that term, you may have to explain it.

Father God is Holy and THE Spirit, is He not ?

"It is part of his character that he is a holy God, but holiness is not limited to God the Father."

When you say "a holy God", are you saying there is more than one ?

Now Jesus said there is none good but one. If no one else is good, they can't be holy. But perhaps you mean it's the holiness of the Spirit, walking in that Spirit, the holiness will reflect in those walking in the Spirit.

Right off the back I'm checking the language because it's easy to put things in the wrong frame.

"God is spirit, but we also know that spirit can be attributed to God the Holy Spirit "

When talking about the divinity of God, how many Holy Spirits are there?

"To sporadically take verses that claim God as holy and God as spirit and join them together without context is a dangerous hermeneutical method.  "

My position is biblically that God or Father God, whichever way you put it, they're not separate, is the Holy Spirit.

The scripture says line upon line, precept upon precept. The scripture does not always have every detail put together in a sentence nicely for you.
The scripture does say what it does. Whether you know it or not, acknowledge it or not, by taking the position you've taken on this topic, it means you deny what it does say. Perhaps to support a false doctrine to use as your defense. 

"Each of them is God, but they are not each other (therefore, God the Father does not equal God the Holy Spirit). There is one Godhead, but three persons which eternally exist."

By you saying "EACH OF THEM IS GOD", that's saying there's more than one God. Just like when you said"a holy God", it's alluding to more than one God.
Now you'll get a chance obviously to clear this up. But it's coming off as not biblical.

The book of Deuteronomy 6 indicates there's one God. Not one God with three persons.

I take you back to 1 Corinthians 8, one God THE Father. Not one God with a person called the Father, not one God being the Father periodically.

God doesn't cease from being God. He doesn't cease from being the Father. There's never a time He's not the Spirit of the Father. You'd have to find scripture otherwise to support that. 

For starters for the next round, answer these questions.

Father God is Holy and THE Spirit, is He not ?

When you say "a holy God", are you saying there is more than one ?

When talking about the divinity of God, how many Holy Spirits are there?





Con
#4
Forfeited
Round 3
Pro
#5
I rest my case.

Just start with those questions.

Father God is Holy and THE Spirit, is He not ?

When you say "a holy God", are you saying there is more than one ?

When talking about the divinity of God, how many Holy Spirits are there?


Con
#6
Forfeited
Round 4
Pro
#7
I rest my case y'all. With no further counter points, nothing else is necessary . Consider the opposing side stumped .
Con
#8
Forfeited
Round 5
Pro
#9
Father God is Holy and THE Spirit, is He not ?

Yes . According to John 4:24 and Leviticus 11:44

When you say "a holy God", are you saying there is more than one ?

I wouldn't say that because I can't produce bible for it. Deuteronomy 6 and 4 days hear O Israel the Lord our God is one.

When talking about the divinity of God, how many Holy Spirits are there?

One Spirit according to Ephesians 4.

The debate is over if there was one. Some just know when they have to quit.


Con
#10
Forfeited