Instigator / Pro

1500

rating

debates

42.0%

won

Topic

#4423

The Quran has 0 contradictions; The Bible has many

Status

Finished

The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.

Winner & statistics

Better arguments

Better sources

Better legibility

Better conduct

After 3 votes and with 12 points ahead, the winner is...

T_Naf

Parameters

Publication date: 04.20.2023 09:18PM
Last updated date: 05.08.2023 07:30AM
Type: Standard
Number of rounds: 3
Time for argument: One week
Max argument characters: 10,000
Voting period: Two weeks
Point system: Multiple criterions
Voting system: Open

Contender / Con

T_Naf

1500

rating

debates

83.33%

won

Description

I believe that the Quran has 0 contradictions and the Bible has many. My position is this and I want a challenger who thinks the Quran has 1 or more contradictions in it or the Bible has 0 or both.

Round 1

rayhan16

04.21.2023 04:48PM

Pro

I believe this opponent is a timewaster and will forfeit every round. I will make one argument and submit and lets see.

The Bible contains many contradictions.

'Matthew 27:5- Then he threw down the pieces of silver in the temple and departed, and went and hanged himself.'

Acts 1:18- Now this man purchased a field with the wages of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst open in the middle and all his entrails gushed out.

Did Judas hang himself or fall headlong?

I am only going to make one argument because I don't want to waste my time with this guy.

T_Naf

04.21.2023 05:15PM

Con

I believe this opponent is a timewaster and will forfeit every round. I will make one argument and submit and lets see.

I see we are starting off with personal attacks for absolutely no reason. This is my first time using this site, I accepted the debate last night, you sent me a direct message this morning asking if I was a timewaster, then blocked me within 2 hours before I could even respond. Although I am curious what made me seem like a timewaster to you when you know nothing about me.

The Bible contains many contradictions.

I agree.

'Matthew 27:5- Then he threw down the pieces of silver in the temple and departed, and went and hanged himself.'
Acts 1:18- Now this man purchased a field with the wages of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst open in the middle and all his entrails gushed out.

Did Judas hang himself or fall headlong?I am only going to make one argument because I don't want to waste my time with this guy.

Again, I fully agree the bible has contradictions, but in your prompt you stated "I believe that the Quran has 0 contradictions and the Bible has many. My position is this and I want a challenger who thinks the Quran has 1 or more contradictions in it or the Bible has 0 or both." I believe that the Quran has contradictions, not that the bible has none.

Quran Contradiction- The creation of man

My initial argument will be centered around a single contradiction in the Quran. The creation of man.

"Created man, out of a clot of congealed blood" - (96:2)

"We created man from sounding clay, from mud moulded into shape" - (15:26)

"The similitude of jesus before Allah is that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him: 'Be'. And he was." - (3:59)

"He has created man from a sperm-drop; and behold this same (man) becomes an open disputer" - (16:4)

If we are going to look at both of these religious texts through an equal lens of literal interpretation, then they both are chalked full of contradictions. I would argue that contradictions in a concept as foundational in all religions as the creation of life are much more significant than contradictions that could easily be attributed to memory decay from different authors with different perspectives of a single event, such as the death of Judas.

Round 2

rayhan16

04.21.2023 06:02PM

Pro

Lmao, I have not blocked you. Anyway, I have encountered many new accounts with nothing in their bio who just created their accounts which led me to think you would be a time waster, apologies for that.

Anyway, to answer the 'misconception' that Con has presented

Quran Contradiction- The creation of man

My initial argument will be centered around a single contradiction in the Quran. The creation of man.

"Created man, out of a clot of congealed blood" - (96:2)
"We created man from sounding clay, from mud moulded into shape" - (15:26)
"The similitude of Jesus before Allah is that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him: 'Be'. And he was." - (3:59)
"He has created man from a sperm-drop; and behold this same (man) becomes an open disputer" - (16:4)

You easily got this from the internet because I have seen this one before,

The first man, Adam (AS) was created from dust/clay/mud

A sperm drop is a stage of how babies are born

The clot is a stage of how babies are born

Life originates from water

It has been answered hundreds of times, at least give me something better!

Con has not fulfilled the challenge of giving a single contradiction from the Quran.

T_Naf

04.21.2023 10:25PM

Con

Lmao, I have not blocked you. Anyway, I have encountered many new accounts with nothing in their bio who just created their accounts which led me to think you would be a time waster, apologies for that.

All is good, the website wouldn't let me reply to your DM and when I opened your profile on the left in red letters it said I had been blocked so interactions were limited.

Anyway, to answer the 'misconception' that Con has presented

Quran Contradiction- The creation of man

My initial argument will be centered around a single contradiction in the Quran. The creation of man.

"Created man, out of a clot of congealed blood" - (96:2)
"We created man from sounding clay, from mud moulded into shape" - (15:26)
"The similitude of Jesus before Allah is that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him: 'Be'. And he was." - (3:59)
"He has created man from a sperm-drop; and behold this same (man) becomes an open disputer" - (16:4)

You easily got this from the internet because I have seen this one before,

The first man, Adam (AS) was created from dust/clay/mud
A sperm drop is a stage of how babies are born
The clot is a stage of how babies are born
Life originates from water

It has been answered hundreds of times, at least give me something better!

Con has not fulfilled the challenge of giving a single contradiction from the Quran.

I don't believe that you have shown that this isn't a contradiction if you interpret the text literally. If we aren't going to interpret the text literally as it is written, then any contradiction can be explained away with symbolism. If the Quran literally says man was created out of a clot of congealed blood, then later says he was created from clay and mud, then later dust, then later from a sperm drop, that is an absolute contradiction unless you begin to interpret the words in a way other than they were written.

Also, it is the contradiction I am most familiar with, I had to use the internet to find the supporting passages to cite them, as I'm sure you did for your citations too. As I am not a religious expert, or even a religious person, I am having to research passages to support my claim that the Quran has contradictions.

Quran Contradiction 2 - Allah's perception of time

Allah's perception of time is cited multiple times as being 1,000 years, then later being cited at 50,000 years.

"A day in the sight of the Lord is like a thousand years of your reckoning." - (22:47)

"To Him, on a Day, the space whereof will be a thousand years of your reckoning." - (32:5)

"The angels and the spirit ascend unto him in a day the measure whereof is fifty thousand years." - (70:4)

Quran Contradiction 3 - Flat Earth

The Quran clearly states that the earth is flat. While this isn't the text contradicting itself, the text is contradicting what we know to be scientific fact.

"Allah was sure that the Earth is flat like a carpet and that mountains are there to anchor the earth so that the Earth does not shake with us. Allah is really an excellent scientist." - (78:7)

Round 3

rayhan16

04.23.2023 12:29PM

Pro

I don't believe that you have shown that this isn't a contradiction if you interpret the text literally. If we aren't going to interpret the text literally as it is written, then any contradiction can be explained away with symbolism. If the Quran literally says man was created out of a clot of congealed blood, then later says he was created from clay and mud, then later dust, then later from a sperm drop, that is an absolute contradiction unless you begin to interpret the words in a way other than they were written.

These are the 4 verses.

96:2- created humans from a clinging clot.

15:28-29- ˹Remember, O Prophet˺ when your Lord said to the angels, “I am going to create a human being from sounding clay moulded from black mud. So when I have fashioned him and had a spirit of My Own ˹creation˺ breathed into him, fall down in prostration to him.

3:59-Indeed, the example of Jesus in the sight of Allah is like that of Adam. He created him from dust, then said to him, “Be!” And he was!

16:4- He created humans from a sperm-drop, then—behold!—they openly challenge ˹Him

2 verses state 'humans'. The other two are quite clearly referring to the creation of Adam which are 15:28 and 3:59.

The 2 verses speaking about Adam. He was created from dust mixed with water to make mud. It is a very simple explanation.

There is another verse I would like you to pay attention to.

23:14- Then We made the sperm-drop into a clinging clot, and We made the clot into a lump [of flesh], and We made [from] the lump, bones, and We covered the bones with flesh; then We developed him into another creation. So blessed is Allāh, the best of creators.

The sperm drop is made into a clinging clot and so on. There is no contradiction here. 2 verses are talking about the first man, and 2 about humans and embryology. This information was actually not known at the time so it is the opposite of a contradiction. This is a very easily understandable misconception you may have but alas I have answered it now, next.

Quran Contradiction 2 - Allah's perception of time

Allah's perception of time is cited multiple times as being 1,000 years, then later being cited at 50,000 years.

"A day in the sight of the Lord is like a thousand years of your reckoning." - (22:47)

"To Him, on a Day, the space whereof will be a thousand years of your reckoning." - (32:5)

"The angels and the spirit ascend unto him in a day the measure whereof is fifty thousand years." - (70:4)

Again a very easy and simple misconception that people seem to have. A day is not specified within the Quran, it literally means 'a period of time'. The Arabic word for day is 'yawm'. This can mean a day or a period of time.

As well as this, it is not one event the Quran is talking about. For example, the first verse is talking about hell. The second is talking about the affairs going up to Allah and the 3rd is talking about judgement day. No contradiction, next.

Quran Contradiction 3 - Flat Earth

The Quran clearly states that the earth is flat. While this isn't the text contradicting itself, the text is contradicting what we know to be scientific fact.

"Allah was sure that the Earth is flat like a carpet and that mountains are there to anchor the earth so that the Earth does not shake with us. Allah is really an excellent scientist." - (78:7)

Again wrong. This is the translation.

78:6- Have We not smoothed out the earth ˹like a bed˺,

78:7- and ˹made˺ the mountains as ˹its˺ pegs,

78:6 is talking about how the earth is spread so that people, animals etc can prosper. There are people from all over the world with different terrains and different eco systems. And then 78:7 backs this up to not be a 'flat earth claim' because it says the mountains are pegs. Now this is not a contradiction, quite the opposite because we only know from less than 100 years ago that mountains have roots so how could the Quran claim this 1400 years ago? No contradiction.

This is my last round, I cannot write anymore. These are just silly misconceptions that people have when going to google and clicking the first link on a page.

Vote Pro.

T_Naf

04.24.2023 07:30AM

Con

15:28-29- ˹Remember, O Prophet˺ when your Lord said to the angels, “I am going to create a human being from sounding clay moulded from black mud. So when I have fashioned him and had a spirit of My Own ˹creation˺ breathed into him, fall down in prostration to him.
3:59-Indeed, the example of Jesus in the sight of Allah is like that of Adam. He created him from dust, then said to him, “Be!” And he was!

2 verses state 'humans'. The other two are quite clearly referring to the creation of Adam which are 15:28 and 3:59.

The 2 verses speaking about Adam. He was created from dust mixed with water to make mud. It is a very simple explanation.

Conceding that only two of these verses talk about the first human just for the sake of argument, that is still a contradiction. Since both of these passages read as if there was a single ingredient used to make Adam, the ingredient not being consistent is a contradiction.

Quran Contradiction 2 - Allah's perception of time

Allah's perception of time is cited multiple times as being 1,000 years, then later being cited at 50,000 years.

"A day in the sight of the Lord is like a thousand years of your reckoning." - (22:47)

"To Him, on a Day, the space whereof will be a thousand years of your reckoning." - (32:5)

"The angels and the spirit ascend unto him in a day the measure whereof is fifty thousand years." - (70:4)

Again a very easy and simple misconception that people seem to have. A day is not specified within the Quran, it literally means 'a period of time'. The Arabic word for day is 'yawm'. This can mean a day or a period of time.

As well as this, it is not one event the Quran is talking about. For example, the first verse is talking about hell. The second is talking about the affairs going up to Allah and the 3rd is talking about judgement day. No contradiction, next.

If this is truly a translation issue then I will concede that this isn't a contradiction. As translation issues are prevalent throughout any old religious text, this is a potentially valid explanation.

Quran Contradiction 3 - Flat Earth

The Quran clearly states that the earth is flat. While this isn't the text contradicting itself, the text is contradicting what we know to be scientific fact.

"Allah was sure that the Earth is flat like a carpet and that mountains are there to anchor the earth so that the Earth does not shake with us. Allah is really an excellent scientist." - (78:7)

Again wrong. This is the translation.

78:6- Have We not smoothed out the earth ˹like a bed˺,
78:7- and ˹made˺ the mountains as ˹its˺ pegs,

78:6 is talking about how the earth is spread so that people, animals etc can prosper. There are people from all over the world with different terrains and different eco systems. And then 78:7 backs this up to not be a 'flat earth claim' because it says the mountains are pegs. Now this is not a contradiction, quite the opposite because we only know from less than 100 years ago that mountains have roots so how could the Quran claim this 1400 years ago? No contradiction.

So since this is the second time you've cited translation issues, I'm going to stand my ground a little more on this one. Even in your chosen translation the earth is still flat, whether it uses a bed or a carpet to emphasize the flatness is effectively irrelevant. You also didn't speak as to how it claims the mountains somehow stabilize the earth. When reading the flat part and the mountains contribution to stabilization together, it is most certainly making the assertion that the earth is not spherical and exists following impossible rules. Since in the same passage it praises Allah's scientific prowess, I believe this is meant to be taken literally and read scientifically, or as scientifically as possible at least.

This is my last round, I cannot write anymore. These are just silly misconceptions that people have when going to google and clicking the first link on a page.

A very condescending way to end this debate. I'm disappointed that you weren't able to remain respectful throughout a single post as I was looking forward to a decent discussion.

I do not believe that two of the three contradictions I have brought up have been adequately and definitively explained and therefore I maintain my belief that the Quran (like any religious text) has contradictions. This is not to say the religion is flawed or that any religion is, they are just old books that often times have multiple authors so contradictions are bound to happen. I have nothing against people of any faith or walk of life and fully support everyone's freedom to practice the religion they choose to. I felt the need to include this paragraph because I do not want anything said to be taken as anti-Islamic,

Americandebater24

04.26.2023 08:33PM

Criterion

Pro

Tie

Con

Points

Better arguments

3 point(s)

Better sources

2 point(s)

Better legibility

1 point(s)

Better conduct

1 point(s)

Reason:

Con effectively demonstrated the contradictory nature of the Quran, while Pro's rebuttals mainly attributed these issues to translation misunderstandings and did not adequately address the contradictions presented by Con. As both parties used the same material, neither can be awarded better sources, and there were no differences in legibility to warrant a vote in that regard. Con maintained a professional demeanor throughout, whereas Pro became contemptuous and disrespectful towards Con towards the end.

Slainte

04.26.2023 08:04PM

Criterion

Pro

Tie

Con

Points

Better arguments

3 point(s)

Better sources

2 point(s)

Better legibility

1 point(s)

Better conduct

1 point(s)

Reason:

I accept Con's contradictions. A contradiction claim is subjective. The contradiction claim about Adam, on its face, is "res ipsa loquitor". Pro did not do enough to demonstrate that the apparent contradiction, is not in fact one. Pro would have needed to demonstrate where this language was intentionally multi-faceted, rather than trying to justify. In part, the argument about sperm is nonsensical, as there is no evidence that when the Quran was written, there was knowledge of sperm as a single cell. Our current understanding is that sperm was identified in 1677. Conduct against Pro for the assumption of timewasting, and the LMAO. Not a very polite thing. "and speak to people good words". Surah Al-Baqarah (2:83),

BennyEmerald

04.26.2023 03:20AM

Criterion

Pro

Tie

Con

Points

Better arguments

3 point(s)

Better sources

2 point(s)

Better legibility

1 point(s)

Better conduct

1 point(s)

Reason:

Pro accuses con of being a timewaster and puts a lackluster argument in R1 because he thinks con will full forfeit. While pro apologizes later, this still loses a conduct point. Regarding arguments con gives a contradiction in the Quran which pro meets with an argument that things could be interpreted differently, which doesn't show the lack of contradiction.