Instigator / Pro
0
1472
rating
32
debates
48.44%
won
Topic
#4457
Transgenderism as an ideology is not healthy, or beneficial for society.
Status
Finished
The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.
Winner & statistics
Better arguments
0
0
Better sources
0
0
Better legibility
0
0
Better conduct
0
0
After not so many votes...
It's a tie!
Parameters
- Publication date
- Last updated date
- Type
- Standard
- Number of rounds
- 5
- Time for argument
- One week
- Max argument characters
- 30,000
- Voting period
- One week
- Point system
- Multiple criterions
- Voting system
- Open
Contender / Con
0
1524
rating
53
debates
75.47%
won
Description
Definition's:
Transgenderism - An ideology that claims each person has a 'gender identity' (an internal sense of gender) which may or may not align with their biological sex. A belief that claims the 'real you' is what you feel it to be on the inside.
Healthy - indicative of, conducive to, or promoting good health.
Ideology - a system of ideas and ideals, especially one which forms the basis of economic or political theory and policy.
Beneficial - favorable or advantageous; resulting in good.
Society - the aggregate of people living together in a more or less ordered community.
Given the definitions, my claim in this debate is:
The system of ideas and ideals that claims each person has a gender identity which may or may not align with their biological sex, is not indicative of, conductive to, or promoting good health, nor is it favorable or advantageous, for society.
My job is to provide persuading evidence of this claim that is more persuasive and more logical for the judges.
Con must do the same, but for the opposing side.
Round 1
Pro
#1
Thank you to my opponent for accepting this debate.
These are the accepted definitions:
Transgenderism - An ideology that claims each person has a 'gender identity' (an internal sense of gender) which may or may not align with their biological sex. A belief that claims the 'real you' is what you feel it to be on the inside.
Healthy - indicative of, conducive to, or promoting good health.
Ideology - a system of ideas and ideals, especially one which forms the basis of economic or political theory and policy.
Beneficial - favorable or advantageous; resulting in good.
Society - the aggregate of people living together in a more or less ordered community.
These definitions were outlined in the debate description, therefore accepted by my opponent. This debate is not a debate on the definitions that I have provided.
My claim:
My claim (also stated in the debate description) is as stated - The system of ideas and ideals that claims each person has a gender identity which may or may not align with their biological sex, is not indicative of, conductive to, or promoting good health, nor is it favorable or advantageous, for society.
I will prove this claim with one starting point. Mental Illness.
Transgenderism does not benefit society in a good way:
Transgenderism is a belief that stems from the mental illness, Gender Dysphoria. The key word there is mental illness. I along with most people in the world, including doctors and scientists would agree that mental illness is not beneficial for society, and is in fact not even good for society. Gender Dysphoria is a real mental illness, and people who struggle with it are confused about their gender/sex. People who suffer from Gender Dysphoria feel as if they were born in the wrong biological body, and truly feel as if they are the opposite gender. This is a mental struggle and should be treated as such. Transgenderism is the new recent name given to this mental illness. Although most of these transgender people, especially the youth, interact with this new type of ideology not because they feel real struggle, but because they want to be a part of something.
Studys show that about 18% of the people who identify as Transgender are ages 13-17.
- Over 1.6 million adults (ages 18 and older) and youth (ages 13 to 17) identify as transgender in the United States, or 0.6% of those ages 13 and older.
- Among U.S. adults, 0.5% (about 1.3 million adults) identify as transgender. Among youth ages 13 to 17 in the U.S., 1.4% (about 300,000 youth) identify as transgender.
- Of the 1.3 million adults who identify as transgender, 38.5% (515,200) are transgender women, 35.9% (480,000) are transgender men, and 25.6% (341,800) reported they are gender nonconforming.
- Research shows transgender individuals are younger on average than the U.S. population. We find that youth ages 13 to 17 are significantly more likely to identify as transgender (1.4%) than adults ages 65 or older (0.3%).
This just shows that Transgenderism is more of a trend than a thing happening on mass all of the sudden.
Transgenderism is a promotion for mental illness by definition. Mental illness is not beneficial or healthy for society and shouldn't be promoted, therefore I have proved my claim.
As always, I make small starting arguments to get things going.
I look forward to Cons arguments.
Round 2
Con
#4
Thank you, YouFound_Lxam for your patience.
Burden of Proof:
The burden is shared. As stated in the description that: "My job is to provide persuading evidence of this claim that is more persuasive and more logical for the judges. Con must do the same, but for the opposing side."
In this debate, pro is proving both: Transgenderism as an ideology is not healthy, or beneficial for society.
As for con, it changes: Transgenderism as an ideology is healthy and/or beneficial for society.
As con, two things are going to be the main focus:
- Transgenderism as an ideology is healthy and/or beneficial for society.
- Is supporting against the ideology of Transgenderism not healthy or beneficial for society?
Definitions:
I, as con, have accepted all definitions that were made prior in the description before accepting the debate.
Transgenderism: An ideology that claims each person has a 'gender identity' (an internal sense of gender) which may or may not align with their biological sex. A belief that claims the 'real you' is what you feel it to be on the inside.
Healthy: indicative of, conducive to, or promoting good health.
Ideology: a system of ideas and ideals, especially one which forms the basis of economic or political theory and policy.
Beneficial: favorable or advantageous; resulting in good.
Society: the aggregate of people living together in a more or less ordered community.
Contentions:
I. New age in society
In a new age of society towards transgenderism. I believe transgenderism has and still currently is bringing more to society beneficially.
For example, it is bringing growth rates to promote being yourself. Back in the earlier times, it was hidden or discriminated against that it became rare that people expressed their gender identities. But now, with many other parts of transgenderism coming out (being shown) more and more, people are starting to feel comfortable with themselves. This is a good thing for society, being beneficial and as well healthy. When I say healthy, it is important to feel comfortable and safe. When you feel comfortable and safe, it promotes good health also mentally.
I believe this doesn't just relate to people who don't identify as their aligned with their biological sex, but also people who align with their biological sex. Shouldn't everyone feel comfortable or safe in their gender?
II. Discrimination and prejudice is not healthy nor beneficial - (Negative effects)
Often when we say it is not healthy or beneficial to society we find it as an excuse to treat people wrongly. There is nothing that is being done that is physically (and really shouldn't mentally) 'hurting' someone. It is something of their own personal self.
Many of the disorders or mental illnesses that people try to present for people who don't align with their biological sex but this is mislead sometimes. We have got to realize that many of these reasons are actually because of the discrimination and prejudice that is projected towards them. Which can lead to depression to even suicide.
Biased discrimination
I feel, when we talk about transgenderism it seems as if only sides of it are being hated on. Is this biased? Having biased thoughts that only one aspect of it is good, regardless of if they are alike is quite damaging. Imagine feeling you are only accepted if you are one part of transgenderism. How does this make someone feel?
III. Freedom is beneficial
To have a good society, a good place for people, freedom is beneficial. When I mention freedom, of course with freedom, there has to be an 'extent'. But what if it's not affecting people? My way of identifying is not you, it's something that is personal to me, not you. Why should you care?
IV. Cannot identify as any gender?
Pro states that the idea of transgender is "An ideology that claims each person has a 'gender identity' (an internal sense of gender) which may or may not align with their biological sex. A belief that claims the 'real you' is what you feel is on the inside."
This includes people who identify their gender as female or male based off their biological sex. Therefore pro is providing that not only people of transgender or non-binary, but also people who identify as someone based on their biological sex. What does this mean? Is it not healthy to feel like males or females, that of which we were born from biological sex? Is it not healthy to have that internal sense of gender?
That being said, pro has to argue this point that even people who's gender relate to their biological sex, does not contribute to healthy aspects of society. This also furthers my point where only a portion of pro's arguments out of everyone is only a portion of everyone who is transgenderism.
Rebuttals:
Before I begin my rebuttals, I would like for the voters to know three things about gender dysphoria:
- We do not know the root cause of gender dysphoria - (hence, it's going to be guessed a lot in this debate)
- Gender dysphoria does not relate to sexual orientation
- Only SOME people will experience gender dysphoria
Now, what is gender dysphoria?
Gender dysphoria is a term that describes a sense of unease that a person may have because of a mismatch between their biological sex and their gender identity.
Usually when also defined, it is a strong sense.
Last thing to mention is that pro's contentions are separated into two sections:
1. Gender dysphoria
2. Trend
With that said, let's continue to pro's arguments:
Gender dysphoria
Transgenderism is a belief that stems from the mental illness, Gender Dysphoria. The key word there is mental illness. I along with most people in the world, including doctors and scientists would agree that mental illness is not beneficial for society, and is in fact not even good for society. Gender Dysphoria is a real mental illness, and people who struggle with it are confused about their gender/sex.
Currently I believe two things are wrong with this interruption. Or perhaps not completely wrong, but misleading. For example:
- 1. Transgenderism does not always mean someone has gender dysphoria, these people are not everyone. That is a false belief that everyone whom is transgender has gender dysphoria or it is intrinsic to them.
- 2. Gender Dysphoria seems it only applies to transgender but there are many different gender identities such as non-binary, meaning this only covers a portion of transgenderism.
I state above, we don't know the real root cause of gender dysphoria therefore, how do we weigh this? How can we do something that may also be an environmental factor caused by the outside world. With all that taken into consideration, the effects I state in my contentions seem way more harmful compared to only some people who have gender dysphoria.
Trend
Although most of these transgender people, especially the youth, interact with this new type of ideology not because they feel real struggle, but because they want to be a part of something.Studys show that about 18% of the people who identify as Transgender are ages 13-17.
- Over 1.6 million adults (ages 18 and older) and youth (ages 13 to 17) identify as transgender in the United States, or 0.6% of those ages 13 and older.
- Among U.S. adults, 0.5% (about 1.3 million adults) identify as transgender. Among youth ages 13 to 17 in the U.S., 1.4% (about 300,000 youth) identify as transgender.
- Of the 1.3 million adults who identify as transgender, 38.5% (515,200) are transgender women, 35.9% (480,000) are transgender men, and 25.6% (341,800) reported they are gender nonconforming.
- Research shows transgender individuals are younger on average than the U.S. population. We find that youth ages 13 to 17 are significantly more likely to identify as transgender (1.4%) than adults ages 65 or older (0.3%).
This just shows that Transgenderism is more of a trend than a thing happening on mass all of the sudden.
This is, in my opinion is irreverent. Why? Because this doesn't show us how it is bad. Unless pro proves this 'trend' is 'bad' then why is it being weighed? And this seems to be only the United States.
As I say that, what completely is the reason for the growth? In the 'older' days, people were more heavily discriminated against and it was discouraged from children. Now, as a society we have accepted it and it is more known to the public. Meaning that if children did feel this way, it is not pushed aside negatively.
Likewise, and I look forward to your next argument.
Round 3
Pro
#5
Rebuttals:
I. New age in societyIn a new age of society towards transgenderism. I believe transgenderism has and still currently is bringing more to society beneficially.
Ok. Explain.
For example, it is bringing growth rates to promote being yourself.
How does promotion of being yourself benefit society? Also, follow-up question, what does it mean exactly to be yourself?
Back in the earlier times, it was hidden or discriminated against that it became rare that people expressed their gender identities
About a little more than 10 years ago, it was socially unacceptable for someone to present themselves as the opposite sex, claim to be the opposite sex, and demand everyone accept and give them the rights and privileges to the opposite sex. Discrimination is not always bad, it just depends on what you're discriminating against, and how you are doing it.
If I were to discriminate against obesity, by calling all obese people unhealthy, then that would be good discrimination, because I am promoting something that will benefit society, whether certain people like it or not.
So, in today's age, how does the prevention of discrimination against transgender individuals benefit society, even if it will save the feelings of certain individuals?
But now, with many other parts of transgenderism coming out (being shown) more and more, people are starting to feel comfortable with themselves.
Again, how is this beneficial to society? Sparing feelings is not always good, and sometimes even bad. If I had a kid, and my child was running right into the freeway, I would obviously yell, and yank my child out of the way. This would most definitely make my child cry and hurt their feelings. But they were oblivious to the danger. If I were to just simply nicely tell them to come back, they would be run over on the road dead.
So how is this beneficial to society?
This is a good thing for society, being beneficial and as well healthy. When I say healthy, it is important to feel comfortable and safe. When you feel comfortable and safe, it promotes good health also mentally.
Funny you bring up mental health.
The suicide attemption rate in the Transgender community is:
"Data indicate that 82% of transgender individuals have considered killing themselves and 40% have attempted suicide, with suicidality highest among transgender youth."
This percentage is more than Jews in concentration camps, and Slaves during slavery in America. It is a tremendous percentage.
And you can't really blame discrimination to this. The discrimination to the Transgender community has dropped tremendously in the past couple of years, especially in America.
It is even proven that anxiety and stress levels rise in people after they have fully transitioned:
"With regard to anxiety, several studies have demonstrated high levels in transgender people before gender-affirming hormone treatment (GAHT).21, 22 For example, Bouman et al 13 found that levels of anxiety in transgender people were three times higher than those in a matched sample from the general population."
So, I think that it is safe to say Transgenderism does not promote mental health. It causes negative mental health.
So how exactly does Transgenderism promote health?
I believe this doesn't just relate to people who don't identify as their aligned with their biological sex, but also people who align with their biological sex. Shouldn't everyone feel comfortable or safe in their gender?
Yes.
People who are dealing with gender dysphoria, don't feel comfortable or safe in their gender. Instead of changing it, we need to make them feel safe and comfortable in the gender/sex they are already in.
II. Discrimination and prejudice is not healthy nor beneficial - (Negative effects)Often when we say it is not healthy or beneficial to society we find it as an excuse to treat people wrongly. There is nothing that is being done that is physically (and really shouldn't mentally) 'hurting' someone. It is something of their own personal self.
So, statistics are just BS?
Statistics show that mental health decreases in Transgender individuals.
Statistics show that the surgery's they get in the long term affect their ability to have an orgasm, affect their ability to have children, affect their bone density, increase chance of infection, etc.
This is the case and will be the case in all Transgender individuals that go down this path.
When the statistics are increasingly showing that this stuff is not healthy for people, then it should show that it is........not healthy for people. It's not about personal preference. This is a statistic.
Many of the disorders or mental illnesses that people try to present for people who don't align with their biological sex but this is mislead sometimes. We have got to realize that many of these reasons are actually because of the discrimination and prejudice that is projected towards them. Which can lead to depression to even suicide.
The discrimination level of Transgender individuals has decreased dramatically, yet the suicide rate has also increased dramatically. So it can't be the discrimination that is causing the depression and suicide, so what is it?
To have a good society, a good place for people, freedom is beneficial. When I mention freedom, of course with freedom, there has to be an 'extent'. But what if it's not affecting people? My way of identifying is not you, it's something that is personal to me, not you. Why should you care?
I didn't care until the ideology was being pushed in law, and public life, forcing people to accept it as truth in a social sense.
So, in order for it to break the wall as accepted by everyone, shouldn't I get an explanation as to why it is beneficial? You still have yet to answer this question.
This includes people who identify their gender as female or male based off their biological sex. Therefore pro is providing that not only people of transgender or non-binary, but also people who identify as someone based on their biological sex. What does this mean? Is it not healthy to feel like males or females, that of which we were born from biological sex? Is it not healthy to have that internal sense of gender?
No, the ideology is the part that is not beneficial.
This is a horribly put argument.
We are not talking about if how you identify is beneficial, we are talking about the belief, the ideology of Transgenderism.
There can be strait people who support this ideology, and I disagree with them. Your point holds no ground.
That being said, pro has to argue this point that even people who's gender relate to their biological sex, does not contribute to healthy aspects of society. This also furthers my point where only a portion of pro's arguments out of everyone is only a portion of everyone who is transgenderism.
No, I don't. The ideology of Transgenderism is for only the people who accept the ideology. Not everyone that it describes.
Currently I believe two things are wrong with this interruption. Or perhaps not completely wrong, but misleading. For example:
- 1. Transgenderism does not always mean someone has gender dysphoria, these people are not everyone. That is a false belief that everyone whom is transgender has gender dysphoria or it is intrinsic to them.
So, if you are already comfortable in your sex/gender, and you decide to change it randomly, then where is the line crossed from reality to fantasy?
If you are gender dysphoric, I get you have the urge to change your gender, but if you are not, there is no urge. So why do it? And if someone doesn't have a reason to do it, then why should I have to respect them? They just decided one day to change their gender based off of nothing.
At least with the idea that all Transgender individuals had gender dysphoria, there was a reason for the transition, but now there is no reason, so what makes this ideology so beneficial?
- 2. Gender Dysphoria seems it only applies to transgender but there are many different gender identities such as non-binary, meaning this only covers a portion of transgenderism.
No, we are talking about the ideology where you can change your gender. Transgenderism. Not all the other crap.
This is, in my opinion is irreverent. Why? Because this doesn't show us how it is bad. Unless pro proves this 'trend' is 'bad' then why is it being weighed? And this seems to be only the United States.As I say that, what completely is the reason for the growth? In the 'older' days, people were more heavily discriminated against and it was discouraged from children. Now, as a society we have accepted it and it is more known to the public. Meaning that if children did feel this way, it is not pushed aside negatively.
This trend proves that there were not a lot of closet Transgenders before it became accepted, and most of the Transgender individuals are children, proving that this is not something that a lot of people have been suffering with for ages, and it is only a recent trend, taken over by children.
Now Con, states that if children feel this way, they are now encouraged to live them feelings.
Let me ask you this:
If a child feels that Santa clause is real, should you legimatly encourage them to become an elf?
My point is that just because a child feels something to be true doesn't mean it is always true.
Therefore, just because a child feels they are the wrong gender does not mean that they are. They could just be confused..........because of what others tell them..............usually in schools.
In fact, more transgender students are being produced in schools that push this stuff, than schools that aren't. Now the schools that aren't don't discriminate against it, but they don't push it. Why is this?
Round 5
No content
Looks like there is nothing here yet
Yeah, I concede, obviously. I took to many debates for my schedule.
No way I missed two rounds..
bump
I agree with your point, but to get a match, you might have to also define what “good” and “health” is.