Instigator / Pro
14
1500
rating
3
debates
66.67%
won
Topic
#4483
Is evolution compatible with the bible?
Status
Finished
The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.
Winner & statistics
After 2 votes and with 14 points ahead, the winner is...
TheAcademicChristian
Parameters
- Publication date
- Last updated date
- Type
- Standard
- Number of rounds
- 5
- Time for argument
- Three days
- Max argument characters
- 10,000
- Voting period
- One week
- Point system
- Multiple criterions
- Voting system
- Open
Contender / Con
0
1421
rating
23
debates
30.43%
won
Description
The debate is about is evolution compatible with the bible. I am someone who will take the pro position which states that it is compatible while the con will argue against. I hope to have a great discussion, and I hope that this debate finds value with someone. The main goal of this debate is to have values dialogue that individuals from different walks of life can enjoy.
Round 1
To start I would like to thank my opponent for being willing to debate against me. As words of encouragement it is important to state that this topic does not hinder ones salvation, but it is an important biblical topic for Christians in our time. My main argument throughout this debate will be based on reliability from scripture and scholarly sources. With me believing that the Bible is the inspired word of God, most of my outside sources will be referenced back to the word of the Lord in some manner. Based on this we will see that a consistent and literal reading of scripture can be maintained while holding to the theory of evolution being true.
Symbolic Numbers: Symbolism is used throughout the Bible and in the case of creation, it is no different. The number 7 is used consistently in scripture and Jewish history as a holy/historic number. The Biblical Scholar Peter Enns notes that "the number 7 in the creation account is important with sanctuary" (Enns 2021). God has always had a connectedness with humans, which is foreshadowed in the first chapter of Genesis. This number is foreshadowed with the Commandment to keep the sabbath (Exodus 31:12). Instances such as this is shown several times in scripture with a common example being Noah sacrificing an animal before these laws were given in the Torah (Genesis 8:20).
Church Fathers: Another reason I feel that evolution doesn't contradict scripture is simply because ancient church fathers often had different ideas about the creation account mentioned in the first chapter of Genesis. Part of this is because the plants came before the sun in the first chapter of Genesis. Early church fathers such as Augustine mentioned that the seven days of creation were not literal and possibly happened in one day (Floodlight 2022). This of course is not something I hold to, but the point is to show that many early church individuals thought about this way before Darwin came up with the theory of evolution (Reiss 2014).
Time: In addition to many of my other points, it is important to read that God's perception of time is different than ours. In (2 Peter 3:8) it mentions that one day is like a thousand years to God and a thousand years are like one day. This simply shows that God has a different perception of time due to the nature of him being an all powerful bein who is outside time and space. If God is immortal like all Christians think, our view of time is like a grain of sand on the ocean compared to God. Now I do not think that these days are separate 1,000 year periods because it does not solve the issue with the sun, but mainly shows that it is not as simple as adding dates up to know the age of the earth.
Polytheism and Idol Worship: The days mentioned in Genesis 1 should be seen as symbolic because of the culture that surrounded Israel at the time. Countries that persecuted them were mainly polytheistic. As a way to stand up against Idolatry it was mentioned that God created everything from the sun to the heavens. Some items mentioned in certain days reflect specific god's that were worshiped at the time , which shows that "God had dominion over these deities" (Enns 2021). It is no secret that if you read the Bible God had to call out the worship of certain Idols which is seen in scriptures such as (Exodus 12:12 and Psalms 97:9) Even one of the first commandments mentions that Israel should have no other God's before Yahweh.
Were Adam and Eve Formed by God: This question is important to answer early on in this debate because it is important to view scripture with divine authority. The case outlined before this has reference to history and other scripture increasing the reliability of my claim. Even though I cited evidence, I made sure to be careful in doing so, because it is best not to add to the word of God. Based on this I feel it is important to believe that Adam and Eve were made in a de novo account (specially created)(SWAMIDASS, 2021) . My personal belief lines up with many biblical scholars and Christian scientist which states that evolution could have happened outside of the Garden of Eden. Once Adam and Eve sinned, other individuals would have just been fully formed at this time. Their are many different ways to present this Hypothesis, but it is shown in the work of Dr. Josh Swamidass in his book "The Genealogical Adam and Eve." Based on this hypothesis fully a formed man/woman would not have tasted death before sin took place, but pre humans such as Neanderthals would have. Individuals inside of the Garden would not have tasted death and everything inside of it would have been created with the intention of man living forever with God and created animals. A separate life outside of Eden would have been made because with God being all knowing he would have created alternative life so that man could live once sin entered the world. This hypothesis is fully plausible and in Dr. Swamidass's book, it shows that due to this all humans would eventually be genealogically related to Adam and Eve by the time Jesus was around which is mentioned in (Romans 5:12-14 and Acts 17:24-29) (SWAMIDASS, 2021).
My Thanks: Even though I mentioned this earlier, I would like to thank my opponent again and anyone reading this debate. I have more scholarship and scripture to share, but I want everyone to be able to track any information I share to this post.
References
Enns, P. (2021). The evolution of adam: What the Bible does and doesn’t say about human origins. Brazos Press, a division of Baker Publishing Group.
Floodlight. (2022, November 11). Did Augustine read genesis 1 literally?: Henry Center. Carl F. H. Henry Center for Theological Understanding. https://henrycenter.tiu.edu/2017/09/did-augustine-read-genesis-1-literally/
Reiss, M. (2014). Creation of Evolution Do we have to choose...? Research Gate.
SWAMIDASS, S. J. (2021). Genealogical adam and eve: The surprising science of universal ancestry. INTERVARSITY PRESS.
Honestly I accepted this excited to debate again but now I don’t feel like it lol. You can have this one
Round 2
Ok man! If you change your mind I will be here. Thanks for accepting and if you want to debate in the future I will be happy to do so! Also if anyone has questions in the comments I may use my turns to answer that if possible!
K.
Round 3
I do want to address a comment in the chat. Someone asked what type of evolution? Is it just changes within a population? Well this is simply how evolution works. Typically people like to separate micro and macroevolution even though the process is still the same. My main point was to show their was enough time for it to happen, which is shown in my opening statement. In addition to this I cited scientist Josh Swamidass showing that it is possibly to have a creation account in the garden while also having evolution take place outside of the garden. Their is a few different sources I can cite for this, but I will leave it in my next reply because I didn't see the comment until now and I am at work lol. Either way it is possible genealogically for this to happen this way. By also taking a literal creation with Adam and Eve it doesn't contradict scripture. This will be something I will figure out when my time is up on earth, but for now I am going with the hypothesis I think is most likely.
Dhdhfjdbdh
Round 4
John has an interesting point! I enjoy the comment! I have an interesting read for anyone that actually goes into more detail about common questions with evolution and the Bible. To go into more detail in answering the previous question asked about what type of evolution is this, an example of other scholarship that agrees with me is Andrew Ter En Loke. Dr. Loke answers a common question many theist worry about which is death before the fall. Inside the garden death would not have happened because God would have wanted man to live with him. Because God knew we would mess up life outside the garden would have been through the process of evolution. Dr. Loke mentions that these humans would not have been fully evolved so they would not have the image of God. Scripture often mentions that we are made in God’s image which is first outlined in Genesis 1:20. So fully formed man (Man with the image of God), would not have tasted death. I do believe animals have souls as well which is first outlined in Genesis 1:30, so I think pre humans are saved as well. I know some of this is re stated information, but I wanted to provide extra scholarship and scripture to back up my claim. https://hub.hku.hk/bitstream/10722/234291/1/content.pdf?accept=1
Ya know, I gotta stop accepting debates only to not commit. To be frank, I'll need to be more sure I'm in the mood to debate.
Round 5
Forfeited
Forfeited
Yes. Evolution eventually resulted in some dudes probably writing the bible, meaning it is plausible, meaning it is compatible.
Evolution and God are quite simple here it is: At the beginning of life a human is a single cell, imagine the size you are now and know that science says you where once a single cell, so small a microscope was required to view you. Now within that single cell is a Nucleus surrounding a single strand of DNA. That single strand of DNA, which is barely visible on a microscope contains a blueprint, the blueprint is for how to build a full size human being. Its an 18 year build project, that creates your body, organs, 5 senses and a brain to interpret them with that allows you to experience the world around you and all of its joys and pains.
If the Arrow of time is followed backwards to the beginning of life itself, you find that same single cell that started it all, the ability of the single cell to produce a human is conducted via a process of duplication known as mitosis. During this process the cell can produce and exact duplicate of it self including the DNA strand with the blueprint to build a lifeform. Within all living cells there is a DNA strand, All living cells had to have a start point, that start point had to be the first living cell to ever exist. That first living cells first decision was to build a wall around it self known as a cell wall, a wall is for protection so this would have been a decision for survivability, the second was to replicate itself the third was to replicate it self again we know this is truth as mitosis is the method by which all living organisms build copies of themselves. It is by this process we all exist. Like everything in existence we all have a start point and its always a lot smaller than it ends up being.
From that first cell came all of life, every single cell of life today has a copy of that original DNA strand as via mitosis an exact copy was made, sure its evolved different traits and forms over time but its still the shape of a DNA helix it still functions in the same way. The first ever conscious decision was to survive the second was to thrive, and this is imprinted upon every DNA in existence, every single living life form follows these instructions. That first cell expanded itself in to every form of life we see today, if we imagine life as a single organism we begin to find God, God is all of life, God is that source cell, whether we survive or not life goes on God is eternal because life is eternal
A its a miracle in it self that something as small as a single cell evolves in to a human being, let alone that all of life evolved from a single source cell. If we truly believe as many religious texts preach that God is within us, then the evidence for this is the shear creative power and prowess of a single strand of source DNA, we have that single source to thank for every thing we see and experience around us, that single decision to survive. Before the earth existed, before life existed... it didn't exist! Before existence existed ... It didn't exist, To Spring in to existence randomly is meaningless, to choose existence is GOD. If everything can come from nothing miracle has occurred, we are part of everything, if you believe in nothing you still believe in God because everything came from nothing, before everything there was nothing, if Nothing is Alpha and Something is Omega God is both the Alpha and the Omega as that first cell defeated nothing to give us everything.
What kind of evolution? Surely allele frequency’s changes along a population inside an ecosystem violates nothing in the Bible does it!
It’s fine. I don’t think you can do related debates yet anyways (site requires 3 unrated debates first, I think)
Hey, I am new to this so I just clicked one. I will publish an argument by tomorrow. Thanks in advance for taking the debate and if you want to run it back we can do it based on the format you mentioned.
Wish it was rated but sure