Instigator / Con



The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.

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After not so many votes...

It's a tie!
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Round 1
1: Itachi is a pacifist when he can help it, only killing when absolutely necessary. Ever since his father took him to see the aftermath of a battle at 4 years old and showed him the carnage of thousands of dead bodies scattered about, Itachi decided that peace was his ultimate goal and that he never wanted his younger brother to experience the horrors of war.

2: Itachi was said to have the mentality of a Hokage from a very young age. This means he has a strong will of fire and cares about everyone in Konoha as if they are an extension of his own family.

3: Despite his cool and composed demeanor, Itachi is distressed whenever he is forced to take a life. The characteristic lines on his face aren't just for decoration, they are called "stress lines" and they developed as a result of Itachi's hatred of harming others but being forced to do so as a shinobi. Itachi is so much of an anti-Sociopath that his dislike of killing physically altered his appearance. Also, Sociopaths and Psychopaths are far less likely to experience stress in situations where neurotypicals would, especially when it comes to harming others.

4: Besides everyone in the entire leaf village, there are numerous people who Itachi loved and particularly cared about. Namely his younger brother Sasuke, his father and mother, his girlfriend, and his best friend Shisui Uchiha.

5: Itachi had such a strong emotional reaction to seeing his best friend commit suicide that it awakened his mangekyo sharingan.

6: Itachi not only cried while killing his parents, but killing his clan and especially his parents did so much emotional damage to him that it greatly accelerated an unspecified illness that he had. This weakened him and caused him to die twice as fast, all as a result of the psychological effect of having so much empathy and love and not being a Sociopath on any level whatsoever but being backed into a corner where he had to kill off his clan.

7: If Itachi didn't kill off the Uchiha himself, Danzo would have still had them genocided so he chose to do it himself to ensure Sasuke's survival and that it would be done as humanely as possible.

8: Itachi was a giga-genius who could have planned everything for his own benefit but everything he did was to benefit others at his own expense. He predicted his resurrection and planned ahead to break free of the edo tensei's control, and instead of using this chance to attempt to gain immortality or power he saved everyone from Kabuto and his edo tensei and then told Sasuke that he loved him just before dying.
Neither debater thinks Itachi Uchiha is a face-value psychopath or sociopath, he is something in between them and an extremely high functioning one.

The problem with ASPD is many think of it as you're either genuinely slotted in to sociopath or psychopath. While there is much more range to sociopaths because more humans with ASPD statistically lean sociopath over psychopath, the lean is not proof of a genuine dichotomy.

Antisocial personality disorder is a type of personality disorder characterised by impulsive, irresponsible and often criminal behaviour. Someone with it will typically be manipulative, deceitful and reckless. Like other personality disorders, antisocial personality disorder is on a spectrum, and can range in severity. It’s more common in men than women.

Similar to autism, OCD, schizophrenia and other spectrum-based disorders, there is significant variety among those suffering from ASPD. If you've dealt with one sociopath you can not ever go 'yeah I get this disorder now' like you can with bipolar, ADHD and more 'have it or you don't' disorders like them.

I will call psychopaths and sociopaths 'opaths' for this debate.

The variety among the opaths is downplayed a lot in all media and even many professional sources because it would be celebrating diversity and complexity in the disorder most responsible for the worst possible crimes, regimes, domestic abuse cases so on and so forth our species has seen. It's one of the only disorders that categorically can be said makes the sufferer more evil than if they lacked it.

When Pro says things such as that Itachi cried while killing his parents, he not only downplays the acts Itachi was doing that night but makes this pure psychopath tier. A high-functioning sociopath can cry when slaughtering their entire village in an act of intra-clan genocide to prevent intra-village civil war and two-way genocide.

Itachi didn't cry much.


While he is crying it's more to do with the fact that not only his parents don't fight back (which probably did help him win the fight of slaughtering his entire village as his dad was one of the most elite Uchihas at the time) but they ask him to take care of Sasuke since they'd assumed Itachi was only killing the adults of the village and leaving the children orphans (oh no, he did something much more unthinkable except for his brother who was just left traumatised to the hilt for life).

Obito helped Itachi (something nobody in all of Konoha realised) and that's why Itachi was able to 1vall that night on top of his parents not fighting back because trust me his dad could have fought Itachi and still lost but really drained Itachi.

watch the full slaughter and tell me if that's a remorseful guy to you.

His dad has the deep emotional intelligence to say 'I should be sorry to you' and Itachi Uchiha is probably crying also because he is deeply aware the village is going to only know him as a genocidal maniac for decades to come (he doesn't know Danzo gets exposed later at all).

He then proceeds to join a criminal gang Akatsuki and fits right in.

While he is a loyal soldier to the other opath guy Danzo and while it's arguable the Hokage at the time was also an opath, we have very little reason to say Itachi is not ASPD just for this.

Before performing a comprehensive psychiatric assessment of the patient, a careful history and physical examination is necessary.   "The DSM-5 diagnostic criteria for Antisocial Personality Disorder
  1. A pervasive pattern of disregard for and violation of the rights of others, since age 15 years, as indicated by three (or more) of the following:
    1. Failure to conform to social norms concerning lawful behaviors, such as performing acts that are grounds for arrest.
Definitely true but I admit a lot of this ended up for deeper reasons, he was a high functioning opath, not a low functioning anything.
2.Deceitfulness, repeated lying, use of aliases, or conning others for pleasure or personal profit.
Absolutely done and Itachi Uchiha did this with ease and excellence. He was so extremely good at this it's why he was the only Uchiha they could ever have asked to do what he did because they had to be willing to lie to everyone and hold the reputation of clan-betraying monster that did it on their own agenda. There is literally not a single other Uchiha willing to do that who'd fit the bill as well as Itachi.

Madara and Obito are jackasses and would have sided with Uchihas, it was Itachi who convinced Obito it was for the greater good, not the other way around.

Impulsivity or failure to plan.
I admit, Itachi lacks this trait severely, ASPD is a spectrum.

Irritability and aggressiveness, often with physical fights or assaults.
He has this for sure even though he's a very careful guy. I think being a bloodthirsty ninja lets you pass as chill and calm because your bloodlust is getting regularly filled, had he been a more sedentary lifestyle guy you'd see this side come out more.
Reckless disregard for the safety of self or others.
He both had and lacked this, depends who and what situation, he was out for himself primarily.

Consistent irresponsibility, failure to sustain consistent work behavior, or honor monetary obligations.
He'd never ever cope in a 9-5 job, he needed a criminal/spy lifestyle.
Lack of remorse, being indifferent to or rationalizing having hurt, mistreated, or stolen from another person.
  1. The individual is at least age 18 years.
  2. Evidence of conduct disorder typically with onset before age 15 years.
  3. The occurrence of antisocial behavior is not exclusively during schizophrenia or bipolar disorder."
Round 2
While he is crying it's more to do with the fact that not only his parents don't fight back 
There is no basis for that.

 Itachi Uchiha is probably crying also because he is deeply aware the village is going to only know him as a genocidal maniac for decades to come
Again, you're just being uncharitable and biased. 

If you were in Itachi's shoes, what would you have done?

You admit that he did it to prevent civil war and two-way genocide, and if it wasn't him that did it there would be no guarantee of it being done as humanely as possible (in fact it is guaranteed that would never happen) nor is there any guarantee of Sasuke surviving.

He did it because he could at least protect Sasuke if he did it, and it was for the greater good even though it was horrible.

Deceitfulness, repeated lying, use of aliases, or conning others for pleasure or personal profit.
Not everyone capable of doing these things has ASPD, especially if it is done only for completely selfless reasons as is the case with Itachi.

There is literally not a single other Uchiha willing to do that who'd fit the bill as well as Itachi.
There were others willing to lie etc. but Itachi was chosen because he was loyal to Konoha over the Uchiha clan and because he was the strongest Uchiha.

Irritability and aggressiveness, often with physical fights or assaults.
Itachi's fighting style is very passive and he avoids fighting and killing unless absolutely necessary.

It is literally canon that Itachi hated killing so much that it physically altered his appearance and gave him stress lines.

he was out for himself primarily.
Every single thing he did ruined his own life in exchange for protecting the people of Konoha.

  1. The individual is at least age 18 years.
He was 14 when he killed the Uchiha clan.

Round 3
RM conceded because he is realizing that Itachi is not a Sociopath. He is realizing it so much that it is causing him to convulse while having an aneurysm and a seizure.
RM conceded because he is realizing that Itachi is not a Sociopath. He is realizing it so much that it is causing him to convulse while having an aneurysm and a seizure
Pro put me under a Sharingan-induced hypnosis paralysis. This wasn't a fair fight and I should be allowed to urinate on his floor and call myself a bigdick Uzumaki, as a reward. He has to clean up the floor with no Sharingan usage or absorption cloth jutsu assisting him.

According to Pro, it is acceptable and neurotypical to slaughter your entire family at age 14 because a particular thing said until 18 they can't categorically diagnose you. Unfortunately for Pro it is very obvious Itachi would continue his sociopathic ways long after he was a grown man, the only thing that stopped him was cancer.

Itachi has a soft spot for Sasuke, his brother, not all 'opaths' are going to hate their brother. Yet he happily and readily kept Sasuke believing that Itachi himself slaughtered the clan on his own volition without orders from above (Danzo and the third Hokage). He was capable of doing this so long and living with the burden of that reputation to the entire leaf village even though he saved them from a civil war with his Clan because he doesn't really care what anybody thinks about him. He also literally did slaughter his own clan and Obito's assistance as at first masked, Itachi only knew Obito as Tobi and was recruited to the Akatsuki shortly after.

The fact Itachi at just the ripe age of 14 could instantly go to Akatsuki and blend in with these grown adult thugs that would rip you to pieces and torture you for a laugh before the ending is because Itachi Uchiha was ASPD. He understood how they think, act and all of it by just being himself. For the first time ever in his life, Itachi Uchiha didn't really have to lie too much or mask too much with the Akatsuki, it's part of what attracted Kisame to him as a devoted partner in crime, remember that Kisame is a guy so loyal to Akatsuki he committed suicide not to snitch once imprisoned/caught. Itachi and Kisame were so to speak 'honest sociopaths' they understood what they were and how it all worked. They didn't resent the other for his ASPD and didn't have the urge to lie or usurp the other.

Itachi Uchiha was a high function ASPD 'opath' with certainly more sociopath than psychopath. His life leads us to believe this.