Instigator / Pro

Best.Korea

1233

rating

417

debates

39.81%

won

Topic

#5917

Kim Jong Un is God

Status

Finished

The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.

Winner & statistics

Winner

After 2 votes and with 2 points ahead, the winner is...

MAV99

Parameters

Publication date: 01.26.2025 01:58PM
Last updated date: 02.10.2025 01:08AM
Type: Standard
Number of rounds: 1
Time for argument: Three days
Max argument characters: 10,000
Voting period: Two weeks
Point system: Winner selection
Voting system: Open

Contender / Con

MAV99

1500

rating

debates

72.73%

won

Description

God is defined as being which is greater than anything else.

Round 1

Best.Korea

01.26.2025 05:36PM

Pro

If Kim Jong Un exists in the mind as the greatest being, then a greater being than Kim Jong Un by definition cannot be contained by the mind.

If greater being cannot be contained by the mind, then mind cannot contain the idea that Kim Jong Un isnt the greatest being.

It is possible for any mind to contain the idea that Kim Jong Un is the greatest being. My mind contains such idea.

Since reality can only be proved by mind, and since Kim Jong Un as the greatest being in the mind means that the mind cannot contain a greater being, not even from reality, thus it follows that Kim Jong Un as the greatest being must exist both in mind and reality.

If Kim Jong Un is greatest being in the mind, and mind is the only thing which can prove reality, it follows that mind proves that Kim Jong Un is the greatest being both in mind and reality.

Since the reality we know of are just things contained by the mind, and since Kim Jong Un as greatest being is by tautology the greatest thing mind can contain, it becomes at the same time the greatest possible reality.

It is not possible by definition to have a greater thing than the greatest being. Thus, since mind can contain Kim Jong Un as the greatest being, no greater thing can be contained by the mind. Since reality is determined by things contained by the mind, Kim Jong Un being the greatest thing contained by the mind at the same time becomes greatest reality.

Since it is clearly possible for anyone to demonstrate that Kim Jong Un is the greatest being by simply containing such thing in the mind, this is clear proof that Kim Jong Un is the greatest being, God.

Additionally, Kim Jong Un's mind is the greatest thing his mind can contain logically, thus Kim Jong Un's mind is greatest reality for Kim where no greater reality can exist, thus his mind is God by definition, God by tautology.

There is no reality which isnt contained in mind, and it is not possible to prove reality unless it is contained by the mind. Mind itself cannot contain more than itself, thus mind itself is greatest reality possible, thus God.

Thus, Kim Jong Un's mind, being the greatest reality possible, must be God (greatest thing, no greater thing can exist).

MAV99

01.27.2025 01:08AM

Con

Thank you so much for this debate Best.Korea. This is certainly a fascinating topic you have chosen.

Pro's argument is certainly a fascinating one, but it is one that even theists reject due to a logical fallacy. There is a rule in logic that goes as follows: The mode of existence of the suppositio cannot change from antecedent (major/minor premise) to consequent (the conclusion). Pro argument essentially goes as follows:

Since reality can only be proved by mind, and since Kim Jong Un as the greatest being in the mind means that the mind cannot contain a greater being, not even from reality, thus it follows that Kim Jong Un as the greatest being must exist both in mind and reality.

Which demonstrates that from his premises Kim Jong Un goes from a being in the mind to a being in the real in the consequent breaking the aforementioned rule of logic and hence committing a fallacy.

His Major premise for this is:

Since reality can only be proved by mind,

Which is firstly unexplained, ambiguous and unproven and frankly wrong. Reality is what the mind conforms to in order to understand what is real. It is not "proved by the mind" it is proved to the mind.

All that follows after, in light of aforesaid points, falls to pieces.

McMieky

01.29.2025 05:22PM

Criterion

Pro

Tie

Con

Points

Winner

1 point(s)

Reason:

Pro is basically saying that if someone thinks there something there that thing and I don't believe that's true and con just proves her wrong.

Savant

01.27.2025 02:01AM

Criterion

Pro

Tie

Con

Points

Winner

1 point(s)

Reason:

Pro's case relies on each premise of his ontological argument being correct. Con argues that the mind does not prove things and that Pro has not justified assuming that it does. Since Pro's entire case relies on this premise, and since Pro holds the BoP, this is a win for Con.