Instigator / Pro
TheGreatSunGod's avatar
0
TheGreatSunGod
1500
rating
31
debates
59.68%
won
Topic
#6086

Israel did war crimes

Status
Finished

The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.

Winner & statistics
Winner
0
0

After not so many votes...

It's a tie!
Parameters
Publication date
Last updated date
Type
Standard
Number of rounds
2
Time for argument
Three days
Max argument characters
5,000
Voting period
Two weeks
Point system
Winner selection
Voting system
Open
Contender / Con
nuggiet1's avatar
0
nuggiet1
1500
rating
5
debates
60.0%
won
Description

war crimes definition:
Cause some harm to some civilians

Upon accepting the debate, these definitions are agreed by Pro and Con and cannot be changed in this debate.

Israel in this debate doesnt mean that each part of Israel did war crimes, but that some parts of Israel's population did war crimes.

Round 1
TheGreatSunGod's avatar
TheGreatSunGod
Pro
#1
I. War crimes of Israel


Israeli war crimes are violations of international criminal law, including war crimes, crimes against humanity and the crime of genocide, which Israeli security forces have committed or been accused of committing since the founding of Israel in 1948. These have included murder, intentional targeting of civilians, killing prisoners of war and surrendered combatants, indiscriminate attacks, collective punishment, starvation, persecution, the use of human shields, sexual violence and rape, torture, pillage, forced transfer, breach of medical neutrality, enforced disappearance, targeting journalists, attacking civilian and protected objects, wanton destruction, incitement to genocide, and genocide.



As of 8 April 2025, over 52,000 people – 50,810 Palestinian[3][7] have been reported killed in the Gaza war according to the official figures of the Gaza Health Ministry, as well as 166 journalists and media workers,[d] 120 academics,[26] and over 224 humanitarian aid workers, a number that includes 179 employees of UNRWA.[27] Scholars have estimated 80% of Palestinians killed are civilians.[5][4][6][28] A study by OHCHR, that verified fatalities from three independent sources, found that 70% of the Palestinian killed in residential buildings or similar housing were women and children.[29][30] At least 110,265 people have been injured in Gaza as a result of the war. Israel succeeded in killing about 10.000 Hamas fighters. This means that for every 1 Hamas fighter killed, Israel kills 5 civilians and injures another 10 civilians. Thus, 80% of people Israel kills are civilians.


II. War crimes of Hamas


In total, 736 Israeli civilians (including 36 children), 79 foreign nationals, and 379 members of the security forces. 70% civilians.



III. Comparison


Israel killed over 50.000 civilians and injured 110.000 of civilians. Not just Palestinian civilians, but also foreign humanitarian workers, and news reporters. Hamas killed 736 civilians. So Israeli has killed 7 times more civilians than Hamas did, and injured much more civilians.



IV. Hostages


Israel has much more prisoners than Hamas does. Israel treats prisoners very badly, beats them, rapes them, tortures them. In April 2022, there were 4,450 Palestinian security prisoners in Israeli prisons – including 160 children, 32 women, and over 1,000 "administrative detainees" (indefinitely incarcerated without charge).[4] According to B'tselem, since the outbreak of the Gaza war on 7 October 2023, Palestinians prisoners with Israeli citizenship have been stripped of many of their rights.[5] It further found that abuse of detainees is so institutionalized that the prisons should be called 'torture camps'.[6] There were cases of Palestinian children being raped in Israel's prisons.A 2023 report by Save the Children found widespread use of physical, emotional, and sexual abuse against Palestinian children in Israeli military detention. The report found that among detained children, 86% were beaten, 69% were strip searched, 60% spent time in solitary confinement, 68% were denied any healthcare, and 58% were denied visits or communication with family.[106][107]. The prisoners in Israel's prisons are civilians by definition, as they dont take part in military activities. Hamas did take some hostages of its own, but these are much lower in number, and they were taken with purpose of being used to liberate Palestinians from prisons. Also, Israel has even killed many of Israel's own people which were taken as hostage. Israel soldiers opened fire on Israeli who were unarmed, just because they "looked like Palestinians".



V. Counter arguments


My opponent might say that its Hamas's fault for war, but that is not true. First, Hamas does not control actions of Israel. All actions of Israel are caused by Israel itself, by tautology. In the same way we wouldnt blame Israel for those 700 civilians killed by Hamas, we cannot blame Hamas because Israel choses to kill civilians. Israel had a choice not to kill civilians, thus Israel's choice to kill civilians is only the fault of Israel and not of anyone else. Further, by attacking civilians, Israel is encouraging more terrorism on both sides, and is even helping Hamas gain troops. Thus, we can say both sides are at fault, and then we should compare which side killed and harmed more civilians by direct cause. So we cannot say "Hamas makes Israel kill civilians" in the same way we cannot say "Israel makes Hamas kill civilians". Such logic clearly doesnt work, because it would mean neither side is ever responsible for anything.



VI. Starvation and denying healthcare


These two cause direct harm to civilians. Israel has bombed most of Hospitals in Palestine, forcing them to shut down, therefore, denying civilians of healthcare. Israel has also many times used starvation as a weapon, by denying food and water from entering Gaza. This resulted in direct injury to civilian population, causing harm to hundreds of thousands people. More than 1.8 million Palestinians in Gaza are experiencing “extremely critical” levels of hunger, with 70 per cent of crop fields destroyed and livelihoods decimated during the ongoing Israeli military offensive, a UN-backed food security assessment released on Thursday has revealed.




https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinians_in_Israeli_custody

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2025/1/15/the-human-toll-of-israels-war-on-gaza-by-the-numbers

https://news.un.org/en/story/2024/10/1155836
nuggiet1's avatar
nuggiet1
Con
#2
I. Israel's War Crimes
In recent years, a lot of people accused Israel did war crimes, but later, it came out wrong and misleading. A lot of people accused Israel used white phosphorus in populated areas in 2009 but Israel largely used it as a legal smokescreen for troop movement. Many claims that Israel intentionally targeted civilians with phosphorus were not supported by investigations. In 2008-2009, Israel was accused of targeting civilians and using disproportionate force, later research by the Meir Amit Intelligence and Terrorism Information Center found that Israel killed militants, not civilians. 

II. Israel-Hamas War Causes
It is Hamas's fault for the war,  Hamas started this war because normalization of relations between Israel and Arab states.

III. Hamas's Crimes To Children
The attacks from Hamas have had a profound psychological impact on Israeli children, leading to cases of trauma and mental health issues

IV. Israel's Choices and Challenges
Israel has 5 choices. Targeted counterterrorism operations but Hamas operates in dense civilian areas, use tunnels and mixes with the population. Negotiation but Hamas and Israel don't recognize each other's legitimacy, Hamas's charter calls for Israel's destruction and Israel classifies Hamas as a terrorist organization. 

Round 2
TheGreatSunGod's avatar
TheGreatSunGod
Pro
#3
It is Hamas's fault for the war,  Hamas started this war because normalization of relations between Israel and Arab states
However, Hamas doesnt control actions of Israel here. To claim that would be absurd. Israel causes own actions by tautology. Israel cannot go around killing civilians and then blaming own actions on other side. If someone punches you in the face, it doesnt mean you can go around killing random people and blaming it on previous punch. It is still Israel and Israel's military which is directly harming civilians. Also, it is true by tautology that if Israel didnt exist, harm to civilians as it happened exactly by today wouldnt exist. This further proves causation, as causation means "If A exists, B exists". So we know that if Israel drops bombs on civilians, civilians will be harmed. Even if we say that Hamas controls Israel, it wouldnt exclude Israel as cause. It is like saying "Hamas causes Israel to drop bombs on civilians". If you say that, you already admit that Israel is dropping bombs on civilians. So Israel is the cause, even if not the only cause there. If something causes Israel to cause harm to civilians, then that claim already concedes that Israel causes harm to civilians. So we see by evidence that Israel has caused harm to civilians. Even if we say that something caused Israel to harm civilians, we cannot even make that claim without conceding that Israel did harm civilians. So opposite case is impossible here. Even if something causes you to do some action, it doesnt change that you are the one doing the action, as the claim clearly says. If A causes B, and B causes C, we cannot say that B doesnt cause C, as that would contradict previous claim. Likewise, if we say "A causes B to cause C", again we cannot say that B doesnt cause C, because the previous claim already says it does.

Further, Israel has some choice not to do some of the actions it does, like starving millions and sexually abusing prisoners, so we cannot say that they have no any choice in any case there. However, lack of choice doesnt negate causation either.

It is still Israel which causes some harm to some civilians there, and all mentioned harm wasnt disproved. By agreed definition, it is enough that Israel caused some harm to some civilians for topic to be proved here. It doesnt matter if you consider harm justified, it is still harm.
nuggiet1's avatar
nuggiet1
Con
#4
First, Israel did not have any choices, I listed the challenges of the choices that Israel had. Israel did not want to go around killing civilians, and they also want to protect their citizens. They can not stand there let their civilians die, and be kidnapped, they have to stand up to fight for themselves. For example, if someone punches you, you have to punch back, that is self-defense. And yes, I admit that Israel is dropping bombs on civilians, because Hamas did not let Israel have any choices, they can only do that. And "A causes B to cause C", if A doesn't cause B, B won't cause C because why would B cause C? Israel doesn't want to waste their weapons but Hamas doesn't give them any choices so they have to do it. No one has time to waste their weapons, kill people.