Fate Zero: Kirei was the superior fighter in his duel against Emiya Kiritsugu.

All good. I’ll make sure anyone who reads this is directed to the comments for this round.

"Two, these are not the sole factors that determine superiority. I’ve offered several other factors, including preparedness, proficiency with weapons, adaptability and tactics, all of which demonstrate superiority in distinct ways."

These should all fall under skills and abilities. Tactics, adaptability, and proficiency with weapons are all an extension of skill. But Emiya Kiritsugu having a range of weapons or being a jack of all trades wouldn’t necessarily make him superior to Kirei’s mastery of a single weapon per se, just more versatile.

"And yes, that means mistakes are a factor, too. Making more mistakes makes one an inferior fighter, no matter how advanced they are, and capitalizing on those mistakes makes one a superior fighter. It’s not just fair but necessary to consider these in the context of this debate."

Performance doesn’t = skill.
A professional pianist could tank their live performance and an amateur pianist could outperform them if the professional either slacked off or was lazy. But the skill gap still exists, even if it isn’t obvious at the time. The performance does not make the amateur pianist the better pianist.
And Kirei’s mistakes did not cost him the fight, nor were they irreversible. For every mistake, Kirei adapted and overcame them.

"He does also argue that one fighter dominating a single exchange or a set of exchanges demonstrates overall superiority, and on that we disagree. We’re arguing for overall superiority in this fight, not superiority in specific exchanges."

Kirei is dominating the majority of this fight. And even at the end, Kirei is still controlling the terms of the fight and is comfortable. Never once visibly shaken. He never even believes his life is at stake and Kirei is fighting to kill, even with only one arm. While Kiritsugu is fighting to stay alive and do whatever he can to remain as far from Kirei as possible.

"First, Pro’s references to Kirei exceeding Kiritsugu in Time Alter come from the Fate/Zero light novel, not from the anime. In the description, Pro referenced this video as the focus of this debate, so drawing on the light novel exceeds that scope. At no point in the anime does Kirei exceed the speed of Kiritsugu in Time Alter. Again, that video shows Time Alter in effect at two distinct times: 0:44-0:48 and 1:43-2:01. It was not in effect when Kiritsugu tried to engage Kirei in melee combat. I agree that Kirei is adaptable in melee combat and can use it to great and devastating effect, but he’s not the only one who can adapt to new techniques on the fly, as Kiritsugu has demonstrated similar adaptability to a range of techniques.[2]
Second, despite Kirei’s general speed advantage outside of Time Alter, Kiritsugu’s attacks land twice (once hitting his Black Keys and once in the arm). So either he couldn’t dodge, or he chose not to dodge. I’ll come back to the “why” of this later, but this shows that Kirei’s advantages are far from insurmountable and that even his Command Seals can only do so much to protect him. It doesn’t help Kirei that anytime he uses his own magic, he can be effectively one-hit KO’d. The previous mage to take an attack from Kiritsugu’s Origin Bullets that hit their magic circuits was Kayneth, who was incapacitated to the point that he required extensive help just to move his hands.[3] No amount of healing magic or resilience on Kirei’s part will prevent that, which is why Pro’s efforts to list Kirei’s magic capabilities fall flat. They may demonstrate his superiority elsewhere, but not here."

The subject is Kirei and Kiritsugu’s fight from The Fate Zero series. The video in the description is an example to provide clarification to voters what it is we’re discussing.
The novels are an extension of the anime. Therefore any feats that novel Kirei possesses, the anime Kirei also has. Even if they aren’t demonstrated on-screen.
The novel is clarification and evidence which bolsters my case, and is an extension, not a distinction from the anime. Therefore, it falls within the scope of this debate.

-finish-

In the rematch between Maiya and Kirei. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GA07zKZ6FbM
Maiya shoots rapid fire at 9:10 , but Kirei has already moved out of range and returns the favor by impaling her leg with a black key as a thrown projectile. He rushes her and goes on the offense, and she shoots rapid fire at him as he advances. But he blocks and parries each of the bullets once again with success, and hits her before she can shoot him again.

Kiritsugu has already run out of calico bullets from wasting them on Kirei. So Kirei should have an easy time engaging Emiya Kiritsugu, now that Emiya is forced to now rely on the origin bullets as a last resort.

Rebuttals
"Pro has moved the goalposts when it comes to Avalon. At no point in the description or his first round did Pro limit our characters to items or skills that are solely extensions of their abilities. If that was true, then Pro’s claim that Kirei’s Command Seals function in this fight also would not hold up, since they are granted by the Holy Grail or inherited from and not an extension of Kirei’s abilities[1]. He also justifies the inclusion of Kiritsugu’s guns, which are items he brings with him like Avalon. So not only is he imposing late rules on what my character has access to after referencing Avalon as a factor himself in R1 (it’s almost a quarter of his opening round), but he’s applying that restriction arbitrarily."

There isn’t a rule that you can’t use avalon in your case. I’m just making the point that it doesn’t count, as Kiritsugu obtained avalon from sheer luck. Not preparation or resourcefulness or training. It was given to him as a gift. And the ability to keep respawning until your opponent’s health bar goes zero is not a factor that defines whether someone is a superior or inferior fighter, that makes them a luckier fighter.

These throwing projectiles would have disarmed his weapon by knocking it from his grip, or they would have punctured a vital organ, killing him. To stop these black keys, Kiritsugu has to actively defend himself by using his gun as a shield, blocking, or avoiding. But defending himself means diverting from his original plan of going for a clear shot, as he would have to move his full body and point the gun in a different direction just to guard himself, eliminating his chance of hitting a clear target.
Now Kiritsugu could decide to just shoot anyway, but he has to do it quickly. But if he does that, then he sacrifices his positioning for Kirei to deliver a killing blow without any guarantee that he even hits Kirei. Emiya Kiritsugu dies from getting cut in half by the black keys.

Given that Kirei has the super-ability to predict attacks. Combined with his tactics of blocking bullets, or stopping pre-fire gun shots. It is unlikely that the Origin Bullet would even land. Kirei is also fast enough to dodge, avoid, and evade them. He doesn’t have to block.

When the first origin bullet is shot, Kirei blocks it with his black keys. 0:27
When Emiya Kiritsugu first shoots an army of bullets at rapid fire with his machine gun, Kirei deflects and parries all of them with nonchalance and finesse. 0:53 These machine guns hold calico bullets and are rapid-fire which are significantly faster than a single origin bullet which can only be shot one at a time. Kirei blocking all of these bullets is a demonstration of his speed.
Kirei also successfully blocks the rapid fire calico bullets even while he was taken off-guard and by surprise, using only his arms and bulletproof leather. 1:34
In this separate encounter. When Maiya fires multiple rounds at Kirei, he has already pre-reacted to the gunfire by moving out of range and flinging a black key which knocks her gun from her grip. 5:45
Fate Zero Reaction Episode 6 - MAYA vs KIREI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJ-jKrAT2TA

Just to clarify. This subject is about which fighter demonstrates superiority in this fight.

This debate isn’t about who would eventually win, I feel we’re getting slightly off-topic here.
Another point I’d like to make is that skill does not = performance.
Therefore, a stronger and more skilled fighter is still the superior fighter against an opponent that fights dirty and wins.
No amount of tries on Kiritsugu’s part makes him the better fighter, even with avalon constantly reviving him. I would argue that every death he experiences instead reinforces Kirei’s abilities as the superior fighter. But I do believe Kirei would still win against Emiya Kiritsugu, even with Emiya possessing avalon. My point is that Kiritsugu's avalon is irrelevant to what defines the superior fighter.

Con insisting that whoever makes the better use of opportunities is the superior fighter, but if we are considering this from a points-based perspective. Kiritsugu didn’t really get have a chance to exploit many opportunities and the ones he did weren’t enough to reverse the odds, as Kirei adapted accordingly and was still controlling the fight.

Kirei’s Combat Style - Bajiquan

At 3:27, we learn that Kirei’s style is designed for efficiency. A one-shot kill. One strike is usually all it takes to kill an opponent, which is what Kirei used against Emiya Kiritsugu. Which the latter was unable to dodge or counter, despite his double time-acceleration being in effect.
Con says my metrics-based framework provides no specifics or details for comparison. But they do, and I’ll clarify here. In another fight of Fate Zero, Kirei’s skills are too top-tier that he’s able to fight Maiya directly and incapacitate her. 9:37
Granted, Kirei could have easily killed her if he wanted to by ripping out her heart. Iri decides to restrain Kirei to a tree with her magic, but Kirei’s body is so muscle-bound that he is literally described as being like steel. He is able to break through the celestial strengths by breaking apart the tree with his bare hands alone. 11:19
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GA07zKZ6FbM
Because of his strength, power, and skills. It would be impossible for Kiritsugu to engage Kirei physically. If either of them were to exchange blows, it would be too one-sided. Kirei’s durability means he could absorb all of Emiya Kiritsugu’s strikes, but one strike from Kirei would kill Emiya Kiritsugu. Emiya Kiritsugu is not durable enough to absorb the impact of the strikes, or strong enough to block the punches. Even when Emiya Kiritsugu uses 2/3rds of his time-acceleration ability, Kirei is still able to land his one-shot punch. So it’s completely understandable that Kirei would absolutely curbstomp Emiya Kiritsugu in a close-ranged fight, despite using only one arm.

By the end of the fight, Kirei still had a variety of ways he could permanently kill Kiritsugu.

Landing a kick which would have splattered Kiritsugu’s brains. Kiritsugu’s back was to the wall and Kirei was closing the distance, so Emiya Kiritsugu wouldn’t have been able to stay far away for very long.
Striking him again in the chest and then stomping his head in while he was down. Or ripping his heart out.
Impaling him with his Black Keys.
Meanwhile, there was only one way for Emiya Kiritsugu to kill Kirei which was to get a direct shot, but this was unlikely for several reasons.:

Kirei had already thrown a few of his Black Keys at 3:17 while Kiritsugu was reloading.
Fate Zero__ emiya kiritsugu VS kotomine kirei 1080p - YouTube https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FDsOYtRwR5I&pp=ygUMI2tpcmVpa2VlbmFu
-continue-

My bad. I’m going to publish my argument in the comments. I thought I posted it already.

I heard you’re strong…

Thank you!
I assumed it would be more fun if I approached this debate competitively.

The Anakin Skywalker & Source Code debates were also fun, but my approaches to those 2 were casual.

Solid first round. I'll have to think about how I want to approach this.

Ohh hell yeah!
This will be lots of fun. I’m counting on this to be my strongest debate.

Let the battle commence!

Sounds good! I’m gonna need that headstart.
Looking forward to an entertaining, high-quality debate

Also, I should be good to start this over the next couple of days. Appreciate the leniency of a week to post, since I'll be on vacation in the middle of it (not going to affect my access to the internet, visiting my family).

Yes, I'd put Kiritsugu among my favorites. Love him for a lot of reasons, but being the subject of a Greek tragedy that plays out in grand fashion definitely helps.

Well, I could try.

Would you be interested in voting on this debate after it's done?
You don't have to worry about voting if it's too long of a read because 5 rounds can get a little lengthy

What are your thoughts on Kiritsugu as a character? Is he one of your favorites?

I didnt watch that anime, but after watching the video, I see there is space for both to argue. Not the type of anime I usually watch, but looks fun. However, Kirei lost an arm there, obviously. Thats gonna be a very tough one to argue.

well thx for the consideration, but uh not now i mean well even if it were available i wouldnt hv been able to cz i hv my exams which means i'll be blacking out for some time now meowww 😑 but uh u watch anime as well?

You're welcome to participate!

I can always recreate this one, if anyone is interested in the subject matter

nehhhhhhhhh nnnoooooo fairrr whyyyy can't i participate (⋟﹏⋞) , thou even when i want to i can';t [sighhhhhh] (╥﹏╥)

Cool, I should be able to respond to this in a couple of days.

I extended the response time to a week.