Instigator / Pro
5
1500
rating
3
debates
100.0%
won
Topic
#6364

No reason to be proud of your ethnicity

Status
Voting

The participant that receives the most points from the voters is declared a winner.

Voting will end in:

00
DD
:
00
HH
:
00
MM
:
00
SS
Parameters
Publication date
Last updated date
Type
Rated
Number of rounds
3
Time for argument
Three days
Max argument characters
5,000
Voting period
Two weeks
Point system
Multiple criterions
Voting system
Open
Minimal rating
None
Contender / Con
7
1896
rating
100
debates
93.5%
won
Description

Pro- there is no reason to be proud of your ethnicity.
Con- Yes there is.

Definition of Ethnicity in english - The quality or fact of belonging to a population group or subgroup made up of people who share a common cultural background or descent.

Round 1
Pro
#1
I'm gonna start simple.
Good afternoon good sir!
There is no rational basis for feeling pride in one’s ethnicity.
Because ethnicity is an accident of birth, not an achievement.
Pride properly belongs to personal or collective accomplishments - things we choose and work for.
Ethnicity, by contrast, is inherited, and to attach achievement to it is not logical.
Therefore, pride in ethnicity is neither earned nor constructive.
Thank you!

Ps: Just like the prince says-"I am proud to have inherited 64 gazillion dollars from my king father"

Con
#2
Overview
  • As a matter of clarity, this debate is not about whether people should be proud of their ethnicity; rather, it concerns whether there is a reason for one to be proud of their ethnicity.
  • There may be reasons to be proud of it, and reasons not to be. But so long as there exist reason(s) to be proud of one’s ethnicity, the resolution is false.

My Case
  • The definition of proud (adjective) is: "feeling deep pleasure or satisfaction as a result of one's own achievements, qualities, or possessions or those of someone with whom one is closely associated."
  • Here are several reasons to be proud of your ethnicity:
1. Pride as Resistance to Discrimination
  • If others hate or discriminate against you because of a trait you did not choose—such as your ethnicity—then that very hostility can give you a reason to affirm and take pride in that trait. To be proud of one’s ethnicity in such a context is not pride in the trait as an accomplishment, but pride as dignified resistance: an assertion of self-worth in the face of unwarranted shame. In this sense, pride becomes a way of reclaiming value, not boasting superiority.
2. Pride in Cultural Inheritance
  • You can justifiably feel proud to be part of a group with a rich and valuable cultural history—a tradition of music, language, philosophy, rituals, or communal values. If your membership in that group is the basis of your connection to this heritage, then you have a legitimate reason to be proud of that membership. Ethnic pride, in this case, is not based on personal achievement but on identification with and appreciation of a meaningful legacy.

  • Now, Pro must take on the highly implausible task of showing that these two arguments fail to constitute even a single reason to be proud of one’s ethnicity.

Rebuttals
  • Pro’s argument, and its flaws, are straightforward. To quote their position:
“Pride properly belongs to personal or collective accomplishments — things we choose and work for. Ethnicity, by contrast, is inherited, and to attach achievement to it is not logical. Therefore, pride in ethnicity is neither earned nor constructive.”
  • Let’s formalize the argument as follows:
[1] If something is not a personal or collective accomplishment (namely, something we minimally choose and work for), then there is no reason to be proud of it.
[2] Ethnicity is not a personal or collective accomplishment.
[3] Therefore, there is no reason to be proud of one's ethnicity.
  • However, premise [1] is clearly false. Consider the following counterexample:
[MOTHERLY INSTINCT] A woman sees an abandoned child and is psychologically compelled to care for it. She did not choose to have this instinct, nor did she work to acquire it; she simply has a naturally ingrained disposition to care for others, especially the vulnerable. She is proud of being someone with this instinct because it allows her to help others. Yet she did not choose it or earn it — she simply has it.
  • Clearly, in [MOTHERLY INSTINCT], the woman is not making a rational mistake. She is justifiably proud of a morally virtuous trait, even though it is unchosen. Hence, it is possible to be proud of things one neither chose nor worked for — and Pro’s argument is unsound.

Conclusion
  • I have shown that Pro’s argument for the resolution fails, and have presented multiple independent arguments that there are reasons to be proud of one’s ethnicity.
  • Therefore, to affirm the resolution, Pro must not only refute all of my arguments, but also overcome the clear failure of their own.

Round 2
Pro
#3
As a matter of clarity, this debate isnot about whether people should be proud of theirethnicity; rather, it concerns whether there is a reason for one to be proud of theirethnicity. 

I cannot help but be grateful for having such a bright opponent who reminds me of what the topic says as if I did not write it myself. 

 If others hate or discriminate againstyou because of a trait you did not choose—such as your ethnicity—then that veryhostility can give you a reason to affirm and take pride in that trait...
Although we can consider dignified resistance as an achievement,this achievement is individual.
One has reason be proud for his own resilience and dignity, but not for his ethnicity. Since it is him/her, personally, who stood against discrimination.
So that can be translated to: ‘I am proud of being so resilient to discrimination.’
This case does not make a reason for ethnic pride.

"...Ethnic pride, in this case,is not based on personal achievement but on identification with andappreciation of a meaningful legacy".
This pride you say, "is based on identification and appreciation of a meaningful legacy".
You yourself define pride as feeling satisfaction to achievements, qualities, or possessions.
Where do you find the achievement or quality or possession to being born (unwillingly due to pure chance) in a certain community?
Identifying with a certain ethnicity expresses a fact. A Biological one.
That does not become a reason to take pride from.
Appreciation of a meaningful legacy, is not pride.I appreciate the legacy of a great nation. There is no reason to express pride for it.
Although I have heard people say that they are proud of lebron's legacy, that does not mean they have any reason to be so.

Now, Pro must take on the highly implausible task ofshowing that these two arguments fail to constitute even a singlereason to be proud of one’s ethnicity.
The task is indeed unpleasant.
But it just happens to be very simple.
You do not present any reason at all in those two arguments which make up for ethnic pride.
In the first, you present a case about one’s personal achievement and try to imply that someone who personally achieves something has a reason to be proud for his ethnicity rather than for himself.
In the second argument you present a case of one’s appreciation for legacy. Which does not in any way treat the case of ethnic pride or even pride at all.

However, premise [1] is clearly false. Consider thefollowing counterexample:[MOTHERLY INSTINCT] A woman sees an abandoned child and ispsychologically compelled to care for it. She did not choose to have thisinstinct, nor did she work to acquire it; she simply has a naturally ingraineddisposition to care for others, especially the vulnerable. She is proud ofbeing someone with this instinct because it allows her to help others. Yet shedid not choose it or earn it — she simply has it. 
In a topic about ethnic pride, you bring up something totally different.
Which is empathy.
Although I can argue that there is no reason to be proud for being empathetic, I will leave that to a future debate with a more capable opponent.
The pride one could derive from his empathy could only be justified if his empathy caused him to do a good act. Pride of having achieved the action of a good deed.
That is also called pride in one’s personal achievements and not ethnicity. 

Hence, it is possible to be proud ofthings one neither chose nor worked for — and Pro’s argument is unsound.
After having reminded the topic to me,you yourself mistake it.
The topic is whether there is any reason to be proud of ethnicity and not whether it is possible.  

I have shown that Pro’s argument forthe resolution fails, and have presented multiple independent arguments thatthere are reasons to be proud of one’s ethnicity.Therefore, to affirm the resolution,Pro must not only refute all of my arguments, but also overcome the clearfailure of their own. 
I am very sorry but you have not shown anything.
I have yet to read an argument from you where you demonstrate a reason to be proud of your ethnicity (like the title says), and not personal achievements.  
To affirm the resolution I did refute all your non-plausible arguments.

I would recommend that you stick to ethnic pride rather than drifting towards personal pride and other feelings such as empathy. 

My first argument was pretty concise and presented the case clearly.

Therefore, I add again:Pride, as my beloved opponent stated,is a feeling of satisfaction due to achievements, quality, possessions.
Ethnicity is not an achievement, it is not a quality, it is not a possession. It is merely a biological fact about a person.
Therefore, by definition, there is no reason at all to be proud of it.




Con
#4
Overview
  • Once again, as a matter of clarity, this debate is not about whether people should be proud of their ethnicity; rather, it concerns whether there is a reason for one to be proud of their ethnicity.

My Case
  • In my opening, I have two arguments that present reasons one has to be proud of their ethnicity. Recall the arguments here so we can see how pro clearly fails to respond to them.

1. Pride as Resistance to Discrimination
  • Pro says:
Although we can consider dignified resistance as an achievement,this achievement is individual.
One has reason be proud for his own resilience and dignity, but not for his ethnicity. Since it is him/her, personally, who stood against discrimination.
  • This simply presupposes that you only have a reason to be proud of things that you have personally done, chosen to do, or worked for. In other words, this just assumes premise [1] of Pro's argument. Not only have I shown it to be false, but Pro has given no argument for it, and pro failed to respond to my rebuttal to this premise as you will see, so we can simply toss this away.

2. Pride in Cultural Inheritance
Where do you find the achievement or quality or possession to being born (unwillingly due to pure chance) in a certain community?
  • Once again, this presupposes that you only have reason to be proud of achievements, once again assuming premise [1] of Pro's argument, which I have decisively shown to be false, and which Pro has provided no argument for, so we can discard this.
Identifying with a certain ethnicity expresses a fact. A Biological one.

Rebuttals
  • Pro does not contest the formal rendition of his argument.
In a topic about ethnic pride, you bring up something totally different.
Which is empathy.
  • This is simply confusion. Premise [1] of the argument is:
[1] If something is not a personal or collective accomplishment (namely, something we minimally choose and work for), then there is no reason to be proud of it.
  • So, about ethnicity or not, to falsify [1], a counterexample must be presented, a case where something is not a personal or collective accomplishment, where there is a reason to be proud of it--this is rather basic logic.
  • Given that I have shown that pro's argument is unsound, and they have responded with a misunderstanding of logic.
The topic is whether there is any reason to be proud of ethnicity and not whether it is possible.  
  • This is merely pedantic semantics. Clearly, I have shown that there are paradigmatic examples of cases where people have reason to be proud of something they did not choose or work for.

Conclusion
  • Pretty one-sided headed into round three, I have presented multiple independent arguments showing that there are indeed reasons to be proud of one's ethnicity. Pro failed to respond to them, perhaps in some cases, to understand them, and misunderstands basic logic.

Round 3
Pro
#5
“In my opening, I have two argumentsthat present reasons one has to be proud of their ethnicity. Recall thearguments here so we cansee how pro clearly fails to respond to them.” Con here suggests that he has not read my argument in which Iactually do respond to his weak statements. “This simply presupposes that you onlyhave a reason to be proud of things that you have personally done, chosen todo, or worked for. In other words, this just assumes premise [1] of Pro's argument. Not only haveI shown it to be false,but Pro has given no argument for it, and pro failed to respond to my rebuttalto this premise as you will see, so we can simply toss this away.” 

In your example you talk about a personal achievement, which is resistance to discrimination. And I respond accordingly.
Since we here are arguing about ethnic pride, individual pride is not relevant.  

It is not clear that ethnicity is a biological fact,even if it was. Pro has not shown that people lack any reason to be proud of biological facts.” 

I have said it twice in this debate that there is no reason to be proud of ethnicity since it is only a matter of chance.
Which you do not respond to because of your incompetence. 
I must remind you that nitpicking only improves your statistics and does not allow you to actually make a sane argument for adebate. 

“This is merely pedantic semantics. Clearly, I have shownthat there are paradigmatic examples of cases where people have reason to beproud of something they did not choose or work for.” 

I do not recall you having shown anything like this.
If it is empathy you are talking about, then all you said is that a mother does not choose it but she just has it.
So, if you want to equate this to ethnic pride then you succumb to the argument that there is no reason to be proud but rather one just has it. 

“So, about ethnicity or not, to falsify[1], a counterexample must be presented, a case where something is not apersonal or collective accomplishment, where there is a reason to be proud ofit--this is rather basic logic.”  

The example provided by my opponent here is not a case which presents a reason to be proud for.
He only implies that an empathetic person may be proud for feeling empathy but does not give any reason on why he might be proud.  
To which I also respond that there is no reason to be proud for being empathetic, but rather for having done a good deed from empathy.
Which is a personal accomplishment.
It is clear my opponent is very capable to making arguments just not any relevant one. 
I am still waiting for him to provide a reason for one to be proud of their ethnicity. 

He also de-facto concedes to the fact that people do not have any reason to feel proud but rather just feel so.  
I still keep to my previous arguments for the 3rd time, on why people lack reason to be proud of their ethnicity: 
There is nothing in one’s ethnicity which is chosen, won, accomplished, collectively or personally.
A person is born with many features, one of which is ethnicity.
It is only a matter of chance.
Everyone has an ethnicity.
No one has any reason to be proud of it.
Null. 

My opponent clearly lacks ability to come up with a reason not because he is slow but because there is no reason to be provided. 

He still has another chance but I modestly assume he will waste it nitpicking rather than making an argument for his case.  

Thank you!
Con
#6
Overview
How Basic Logic Works
  • Yes, seriously.
  • Statements like "every dog is a mammal" use universal quantification. To show them false, a counterexample suffices—e.g., a dog that isn’t a mammal. The subject matter doesn't matter; any counterexample falsifies a universal claim.
Prelim
  • Pro’s case depends entirely on the claim that one can only be proud of what one chooses, achieves, or works for. But this is never defended—Pro simply assumes it throughout. His argument stands or falls on this, so it falls. The dictionary definition of proud includes “feeling deep pleasure or satisfaction as a result of one's own achievements, qualities, or possessions or those of someone with whom one is closely associated.” Key word: qualities. Pride can be in achievements—but need not be.
My Case
  • I gave two arguments for why people can have reason to be proud of their ethnicity. Pro has failed to answer either.
1. Pride as Resistance to Discrimination
  • When others demean someone for their ethnicity, taking pride in that trait is a form of dignified resistance—a way to affirm worth and reclaim value, not to assert superiority. Pro initially replied:
Although we can consider dignified resistance as an achievement, this achievement is individual...
One has reason be proud for his own resilience and dignity, but not for his ethnicity...
  • I explained this begs the question—assuming pride must be earned, which is exactly what's at issue. Pro then replied:
In your example you talk about a personal achievement...
Since we here are arguing about ethnic pride, individual pride is not relevant.
  • But this misses the point. If the basis of the discrimination is ethnicity, then that same ethnicity becomes the object of dignified affirmation. You can be proud both of resisting and of the trait being demeaned. Pro never addresses this; he only cites something else you can be proud of, without showing why you have no reason to be proud of ethnicity.

2. Pride in Cultural Inheritance
  • Pro objects that ethnicity is “a matter of chance.” But that cuts both ways. Many great accomplishments came by chance—like the discovery of penicillin.
  • Good things can happen by chance, and people have reason to be proud of good things—whether chosen or not.

Rebuttals
  • Pro’s argument was:
[1] If something is not a personal or collective accomplishment (i.e., something chosen/worked for), there is no reason to be proud of it.
[2] Ethnicity is not a personal or collective accomplishment.
[3] Therefore, there is no reason to be proud of one’s ethnicity.
  • But I refuted [1] in Round 1 with a counterexample [MOTHERLY INSTINCT]. Pro replied the example wasn’t about ethnicity, which is a basic confusion. A counterexample to a universal claim doesn’t need to be about the same subject—just needs to show the form is invalid. Pro replies:
So, if you want to equate this to ethnic pride then you succumb to the argument that there is no reason to be proud but rather one just has it.
  • Again, this assumes the conclusion—begging the question. We can dismiss it. He then says:
The example provided by my opponent here is not a case which presents a reason to be proud for.
  • Looks like Pro is walking back his previous mistake!
  • He also says I didn’t explain why the woman is proud of her empathy, when I explicitly stated:
"She is justifiably proud of a morally virtuous trait..."
  • Virtuous traits are, by definition, good to have—so people have reason to be proud of them. Pro pretends this wasn’t said, so never responds to it.
  • He further claims I conceded that people “just feel” proud but have no reason to—pure fiction. Pro seems to be trying to invent a fantasy in the final round!
Pro also says:
  • Everyone has an ethnicity.
  • But this doesn’t show pride is unjustified. If everyone in the future made great contributions, they would still have reason to be proud. Universality doesn’t nullify value.

Conclusion
  • The choice is clear. Pro never justifies the principle his entire case depends on, fails to address core arguments, and repeatedly misunderstands basic logic. For what it’s worth, he also says:
Which you do not respond to because of your incompetence.
  • I’ll let voters judge which side better demonstrated clarity and competence.