Women Love Men Who are Generally Attractive more than Specifically Attractive
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Women are more attracted to men who have adopted a holistic dating strategy than men who are excellent at one specific thing.
(1) Debater must have typing experience and internet access.
(2) Place your arguments and sources inside the debate
(3) Structure the debate in a readable, Coherent fashion.
(4) No semantics, Trolling, or lawyering. Keep the focus on argumentation not tricks.
(2) Main Argument
(3) Rebuttal to opponent's main argument. No new arguments.
(4) Evaluation of main arguments and rebuttals + voting issues (one paragraph). No new arguments.
Holistic - focused on the sum total of the person; including physical, Mental, Emotional and other characteristics of the individual and his life
Burden of Proof:
I have the burden of proof.
By accepting this debate you accept the Rules, Rounds, Definitions, And BOP.
“Choosing a mate is a complex task, and so we do not expect to find simple answers to what women want.” -David Buss, Evolutionary Psychology, 2012
- AP1 - Selecting a mate able to invest. EMP - ambitiousness and industriousness, financial prospects, social status, older age; size, strength, and athletic ability
- AP2 - Selecting a mate who is willing to invest. EMP - Dependability and stability, love and commitment cues, positive interactions with children
- AP3 - Selecting a mate who is able to physically protect her and her children. EMP - Size (muscularity and height), bravery, athletic ability.
- AP4 - Selecting a mate who will show good parenting skills. EMP - Dependability, emotional stability, kindness, positive interactions with children
- AP5 - Selecting a mate who is compatible. EMP - similar values, similar ages, similar personalities
- AP6 - Selecting a mate who is healthy. EMP - Physical attractiveness, symmetry, health, masculinity, good immune system
Why women have sex is complex and multifaceted, containing varying combinations of motivations. We identified 237 distinct sexual motivations that covered an astonishing variety of psychological nuance. (Cindy Meston, David Buss, 2009)
Smell: A man’s smell is a sign of his immune functioning from his MHC gene. The more different the MHC gene, the more a woman’s sexual responsiveness to her partner increased. (Santos, 2005) Women are a lot more sensitive to bad odors than men [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2693767/]
1. Sense of Humor
- Autistic Savants are people who have significant mental disabilities but demonstrate an extraordinary, specific ability: e.g. rapid calculation, artistic ability, map making, or musical ability. Usually just one special skill is present.
- Are they attractive to women? No. Many autistic characteristics go against typical dating norms, running counter to mainstream conceptions of how to express affection and love. People with autism are rarely considered in romantic contexts.
- Basic, non-sexual touching is uncomfortable. Big smiles can be frightening and eye contact that darts back and forth often makes other people uncomfortable. Autistic people don't understand flirting and it seems complex and nonsensical. They have difficulty in processing social cues from others as well.
- Yes, these are examples of men who have an extraordinary ability in one field and yes, they are attractive to women, but notice how they are also attractive in general. At a high level these people all have high industriousness, social acuity in making deals to improve their careers, and usually sought after by women creating more competition for them.
- Athlete: good physical fitness and health, strength for protecting her and offspring, industriousness and financial prospects for providing resources, higher testosterone produces a lower voice which is more sexually arousing, good body. He fulfills many if not all EMP’s of women.
- Actor: Excellent grooming, hygiene, appearance, facial symmetry. High social status and ability to socialize and empathize. Wealth, lifestyle of freedom and good emotions. He fulfills many if not all EMP’s of women.
- Musicians: Intelligence, motor skills for playing instruments, fame (social status), wealth, pre-selection being surrounded by women, often good looking and physically fit. He fulfills many if not all EMP’s of women.
- These people who are excellent at one thing are also generally attractive as well and set up their lives to maximize the women in them.
The nature of your claim is ultimately subjective. When you make a statement about what woman prefer , you invoke a lot of different woman with a lot of different opinions.
- I may make a statement (assertion) about what women prefer, but it is substantiated by the best scientific evidence and evolutionary models that exist. As seen in my argument, I make reference to many studies, several evolutionary models, book reviews of 1000's of studies, and quotes from the most reputable evolutionary psychologists on the planet [note that is not a fallacious argument from authority, because the evolutionary psychologists are in consensus with these points and this is their area of expertise].
- In studies that poll women's opinions and experiences, they are valid scientific polls published in reputable scientific journals. A valid opinion poll requires a random sample of population, a statistically significant number for the sample size, and non-bias questioning so that the answer of the question is truthful and valid. For certain types of scientific questions where techniques and instruments are not currently able to detect things significantly, scientifically valid polls are some of the best evidence we have.
- For many studies on female arousal a technique called "Vaginal photoplethysmography" is used to measure the amount of blood in the walls of the vagina with light. So that can go an objective level beyond self-reporting or other forms of observation, which is the most accurate you can get with testing of arousal and attraction.
- As indicated in round 1, we have a shared burden of proof. I must show why women are more attracted to men who are more holistically attractive (in mind, body, personality, and materially) and con must show why women are more attracted to men who are hyperattractive in one specialized area. So any claims as to subjectivity (if that is one of his main points) apply equally to him as well.
However, there problems.
1. You're not a mind reader.This is actually the key issue. You can't know what every woman wants. If you can't know what every woman wants, Then there is no way to extrapolate any kind of true data. We would just end up with subjective guesses about subjective feelings that we have no real data on.
2. Tracking approaches.The mind reader problem applies here was well.
We can't read the mind of all men and know what dating approach they're using.
Furthermore, the topic is not a true dichotomy because it does not include cases of hybrids who use two or three approaches, but no holistic ones. That means there are multiple categories that you need to debunk that puts the burden of proof on your, because I don't have to claim a single approach. I only have to prove that your way doesn't enjoy a majority or other approaches.
3. People don't always know.Woman don't always know what they like until they get it.
In fact, many woman simply fall for guys just on looks and then just tolerate their personality, so how does your holistic approach apply here?
Men also don't always know what approach they're using. They might just be spit balling.
Summary:There are simply too many variables to track.
- For example, a study that tested the smell of a men's shirts after working out and how attractive women found the men based on their shirt smell. They found that women were more attracted to the men who produced more androstenol which is a chemical associated with higher testosterone in men.
- Or in the voice study, women listened to over a hundred different voices and rated the lower-pitched voices more attractive universally.
whenever subjectivity is involved, it's almost always impossible to get good proof.
I'm going to start off by point out that there is no shared BoP in this debate...
I will note that nothing here specifically supports your claim that men have to adopt a holistic strategy.
The judgements that woman make about a man's traits are largely arbitrary
- For example in the study on wealth's influence on attractiveness, 150 women rated mens attractiveness based on a photo and his salary. "A man can move himself two points higher on the attractiveness scale we used if his salary increases by a factor of 10." [https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S109051381730315X]
Most woman decide if they like a guy within several minutes of meeting him.
- Size, height, muscularity, facial symmetry, motor skills while walking.
- Bravery in approach, social status, humor, intelligence, social skills, dominance, assertiveness, comfortability in sexuality, empathy, self-confidence, deep voice.
- Material proof of having resources, kindness, assertiveness in way of ordering
- Biochemical sample of his immune system's compatibility with hers.
- Leadership, resourcefulness dealing with logistics, empathy dealing with her situation with friends/schedule.
- Empathy, social skills, level of testosterone
- Dominance, deep voice, assertiveness, leadership, movement (motor coordination), chemical cues, athleticism 😉
[Men would have to display all traits in 5 minutes]
Woman decide if they like you or not.
Are you married? My wife decided she liked me b/c of 3 factors.
I'm not sure why you bring autistic people into this. Is this your idea of a "specifically attractive person"?
When you bring up weaknesses. You put "bad smell" and "anger issues" This is another strawman because You're posing [your argument] against completely unattractive.
Why aren't we talking about people with neutral smells and neutral emotion issues?
I knew a guy in high school that smelled like rotten beef a roni (my words back then) and got more girls than I did.