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Topic
#6659

National Socialism

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Voting

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Standard
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5
Time for argument
Three days
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10,000
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Two months
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0
1382
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476
debates
46.95%
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Round 1
Pro
#1
Greetings, hope your doing okay.

I hope you wont mind if I immediately jump to my argument on this ideology.

1. The past of National Socialism. 
Its no secret that the past of National Socialism is potrayed as dark to say the least. Events such as the Holocaust and slavery are brought up as reasons on why this ideology is "evil". Though I dont deny that they happened, the details of some of these events are completely taken out of context, completely false or exaggerated.
Take for example, the holocaust. Its is described as this utterly inhumane event in history but rarely is the fact mentioned that genocide wasnt a "german invention" during the second world war. Take for example, the Japanese, the Soviets (The Untold Genocide: Unveiling a Hidden Tragedy), the Brits with the bombing of Dresden or the Americans with the unnecessary use of the atomic bombs which strangely targeted the two majority christain cities (Nagasaki, Hiroshima, the Surrender of Japan and Christianity). Both sides of this conflict commited war crimes and atrocities but strangely, one side gets all the blame. Also, many people say that Hitler was a madman who only killed the jews cause they were an easy target. I will touch on this later cause, let me tell you, they are anything but innocent.

2. How does National Socialism even work?

Many people think that this ideology works by sheer terror and thats about it. In truth, National Socialism gives us the best of both worlds from the left and right. We get the economics of the left mixed with capitalism and we get the nationalism of the right mixed with the workers rights movement of the left. This ideology worked because it had no alterior motive outside of providing germans with a pure, strong and everlasting state. Its populist without having to compromise for more votes since it only wants the best for its own people, not for the rich, not for the immigrants, not for its own voter base. National Socialism  gave Germany a chance to thrive once more on its own. It rejected capitalism in favour for corporatism (we will touch on this later). It rejects civic nationalism in favour for ethno nationalism (diversity is our greatest strength and weapon against underaged white girls Grooming gangs scandal - Wikipedia). And even though some members of the NSDAP were atheists, (Martin Bormann Heinrich Himmler) it still favoured Christianity over atheism.

3.Corporatism.

Corporatism combines state lead/funded mega corporations with small scale markets. The Corporations would controll markets like heavy industry, mineral extraction,  millitary, housing and so on and so forth. Since these corporations wouldnt pay workers in the traditional sense, instead providing them with free housing, no tax, ensured welfare, workers rights, free food/water and so on, they wouldnt need to have a budget since the goverment can just print infinite money since debt doesnt mean anything, take the USA as an example. (ofc only if used correctly ofc) Through Corporatism, Hitler and Mussolini were able to rapidly modernise their countries, reducing homelessnes unemployment building new infastructure and modernising their armies. 

4.The main difference of National Socialism, racial awareness.

Many people throw around the title of "bigot" or "racist" when the ideology of National Socialism is brought up yet they all fail to realise that those words have no meaning. You dont want to import infinity indians into your country just to make the gdp grow by 0.1 dollars? RACIST! Nowdays,  being white is considered racist since, if you even dare to proclaim that I love white people, atleast 50 70iq somalians will post a random white dude blowing his head off, IF they are feeling generous, they will just straight up copy our memes like "TND" or such and just put their own spin on it. What is ironic is that they call for the death of the race who built/invented the piece of technology that they are using to call death upon us. Racism has been used as a last resort debate killer for almost 40 years now but slowly, white people are getting tired of it. For some reason, whites should be ashamed about their history. We are raised in the spirit of the holocaust, slavery and colonialism while all the cool things were done by black people. (Netflix LOVES race swapping but for somereason its not racist when blacks do it.) 

In truth, whites are the true victims of racism. We have lost our spines due to being brainwashed into thinking that we are the devil itself even though blacks are actively raping our people, killing eachother, killing us, leaching off of our taxes via welfare, created ghetto culture which promotes degeneracy and even still they have the biggest fucking egos possible. (Racial inequities in homicide rates and homicide methods among Black and White women aged 25–44 years in the USA, 1999–2020: a cross-sectional time series study - The Lancet) They claim that its just socio economic factors but race makes a stronger corolation than education/employment when it comes to murder statistics. Dont get me wrong, I dont have a problem with blacks, in Africa. Africa is another case of why black people arent ready for civilisation but I will save that for later.

5. My favourite group of people

Jews are my favourite group of people. There has never been a jew who has done anything wrong throughout history. Anyways, the talmud exists and it kinda shatters the narrative of jews being wholesome people who were unjustly persecuted throught history.  

Gitting 57a4:Onkelos said to him: What is the punishment of that man, a euphemism for Jesus himself, in the next world? Jesus said to him: He is punished with boiling excrement. As the Master said: Anyone who mocks the words of the Sages will be sentenced to boiling excrement. And this was his sin, as he mocked the words of the Sages. The Gemara comments: Come and see the difference between the sinners of Israel and the prophets of the nations of the world. As Balaam, who was a prophet, wished Israel harm, whereas Jesus the Nazarene, who was a Jewish sinner, sought their well-being.

תַּנְיָא, אָמַר רַבִּי אֶלְעָזָר: בֹּא וּרְאֵה כַּמָּה גָּדוֹל(ה) כֹּחָהּ שֶׁל בּוּשָׁה, שֶׁהֲרֵי סִיַּיע הַקָּדוֹשׁ בָּרוּךְ הוּא אֶת בַּר קַמְצָא, וְהֶחְרִיב אֶת בֵּיתוֹ, וְשָׂרַף אֶת הֵיכָלוֹ.
Well isnt that wholesome? But wait, theres more!

Aboda Sarah 37a: The Gemara explains the reason for this opinion: Since a nine-year-old boy is fit to engage in intercourse, he also imparts ritual impurity as one who experienced ziva. Ravina said: Therefore, with regard to a female gentile child who is three years and one day old, since she is fit to engage in intercourse at that age, she also imparts impurity as one who experienced ziva.
פְּשִׁיטָא! מַהוּ דְּתֵימָא: הַאי יָדַע לְאַרְגּוֹלֵי, וְהָא לָא יָדְעָה לְאַרְגּוֹלֵי? קָא מַשְׁמַע לַן.
Turns out Epstein was a jew who didnt break any jewish law! Good to see law abiding citizens, if only the evil neo nazis hadnt released the files.

There are more but im getting kinda tired. Overall if I was able to convince you please dont just forfit and atleast let me know. I thank you deeply for your time and attention. And please, dont ignore the evidence. Have a joyfull day!

Con
#2
Greetings. I'm going to try to get an understanding of what you're saying.

So I'm going to be quoting, asking questions, looking for inconsistencies.

"The Corporations would controll markets like heavy industry, mineral extraction, millitary, housing and so on and so forth. Since these corporations wouldnt pay workers in the traditional sense, instead providing them with free housing, no tax, ensured welfare, workers rights, free food/water and so on, they wouldnt need to have a budget since the goverment can just print infinite money since debt doesnt mean anything, take the USA as an example. (ofc only if used correctly ofc) Through Corporatism, Hitler and Mussolini were able to rapidly modernise their countries, reducing homelessnes unemployment building new infastructure and modernising their armies. "

Ok so here is where I can initially see what you are saying to where I have to question or as the nominal expression "pushback ".

When it comes to housing, can the workers live anywhere in any type of property of their choosing?

Does no tax mean all services that are normally paid for are paid for by whom and the individuals that receive salary for tax funded services, where would their wages come from?

More comes into question with this because everything is interrelated and the subject is touching society, but let's just start with these questions for right now on taxes.

Now with "ensured welfare", you have to unpack what exactly that entails and what would be the difference in what exists now already regarding welfare. I believe worker's rights already exist . I don't know what else is there that is not present now in the particular society or societies of particular nation or nations you're talking about.

If there is no need for a budget, then does this mean unlimited supply up to what resources allow of course, an unlimited supply of a dietary capacity regardless from that which is deemed the most inexpensive to expensive in monetary terms?


"We are raised in the spirit of the holocaust, slavery and colonialism while all the cool things were done by black people."

I'll say this as a side note that you can question if you want. We are raised enslaved due to the monetary enslavement system. I don't know if we have much disagreement here if at all .

It really may be a non existent issue of this topic. In terms of enslavement, it makes no difference. Doesn't matter, low class, mid class, high class.


"In truth, whites are the true victims of racism. We have lost our spines due to being brainwashed into thinking that we are the devil itself even though blacks are actively raping our people, killing eachother, killing us, leaching off of our taxes via welfare, created ghetto culture which promotes degeneracy......."

Again, another side note. Not necessarily an issue to the topic. But be that you take position that "whites are the true victims of racism" , I'll suggest to you to look up a person by the name of Neely Fuller Jr.
He was the author of a book called "The United Independent code system concept.....for victims.......of racism/white supremacy".

Let me know, we can perhaps have a discussion on this separately. He had concluded that the whole world is dominated and run on the system of "racism" and the dominant people on the planet  are in control of the major areas of people activity.

Nine areas: economics, education, entertainment, labor, law, politics, religion, sex and war.

The most dominant people, the most powerful people on this planet control these areas, dictating since it was basically mentioned in the exchange, they dictate to those who are not in control or are weaker and are not in position to dominant.

So those that are not are classified as "non white people ". They are dominated by "whites". Those "white" people, not all "white" people, but those "white" people that believe in annd are able to be "racist". They are the "white" supremacists. The earth is dominated by the system of "racism white supremacy ". "White supremacy is racism and racism is white supremacy ". This is no other than that.

When anything that happens that shouldn't happen, it's the system.....of "white supremacy". It's the "white supremacists" that are to blame for everything that happens that shouldn't happen. They are the usual suspects. They are the ones that dictate to the "non white people" where to go , where to work, where to live, who to sleep with, everything concerning "non white people" like how the slave master owns his slaves.

Now the parallel to socialism, the government, the communists that tell you where to live, what to eat , where you're allowed, what you're allowed to do by being a worker with having worker's rights and how you're cared for by parameters of welfare ..... perhaps is the form of slavery that "white supremacy" continuously burns midnight oil on.

Of course, now we have to ask, are those people in government, "white"....."white supremacists"?

If they are, does the country that their government exists in really exist?

Does it really exist or is it just one government?

Is it an American government, Canadian government, etc .?

Is it the one world government known as the system of "white supremacy"?

So these are just questions, we can have a discord, discourse with. Just some things to add to the subject. You can look up Mr. Fuller. I'm just pulling much of this from his talking points.

"There has never been a jew who has done anything wrong throughout history. Anyways, the talmud exists and it kinda shatters the narrative of jews being wholesome people who were unjustly persecuted throught history.  "

Another perceived non existent issue to the discussion. All these non existent issues makes this seems more like a conversation in which I'm here for it. Makes me no nevermind.

The only jew I know of that has never done anything wrong according to a certain written history was slew and hung on a tree. The same written text has indicated other Jews that have definitely done wrong.

I digress.

So to bring this to a center of focus, the main point of possible contention we're going to have is where all those questions I itemized are. Now if you want to only address that part and drop everything else, we can do that.

I wish I can have more engagement with individuals on these sites like I believe this exchange is going to be . I think I'm falling back pretty soon because of it. All things come to come end and just for a season.

I yield.
Round 2
Pro
#3
Forfeited
Con
#4
I rest my case.
Round 3
Pro
#5
Forfeited
Con
#6
I rest my case.
Round 4
Pro
#7
Im so sorry, I went on a vacation.

1. Corporatism and general economics

1.a. Workers would have a few options on what type of house they would recive but there would be like 3-4 variations at most. They would be allowed to renovate them and such but that would come out of their pocket. And workers wouldnt be forced to live in goverment provided housing. They can still live in their own private property which they bought.

1.b. Non goverment workers would still get taxed. And stuff like healthcare, police and so on would be financed by printing more money. Due to these fields barely interacting with the market we could still pump it full of printed money and not cause inflation. The financing of police officers and healthcare workers would be handeled by taxing non gov. population.

1.c. I added in "ensured welfare/workers rights" so that people know it would still be around in my system. Corporatism is different compared to capitalism so systems like these arent a guarantee. But stuff like welfare for retired workers (due to old age, suffered injury during work and so on).

2. Race

2.a. Well we have to tie society to some type of system otherwise we will fall into anarchy. I get what your trying to say, but its the unfortunate truth.

2.b. White supremacy is a made up fairy tale imo. Whilst probably yes, in the past during colonialism such a system did exist today its flipped around. Even though whites are better at compiling code, indians get mass imported into the USA for example because of their "culture". Ofc, we all know that thats not true, they are hired over the white man because they are willing to work for less. As you mentioned we are enslaved to a monetary system which is true. We live in an era of color blind meratocracies, instead of hiring people for their capabilities, they get hired for how low of a wage they are willing to work for. Ofc, non whites, especially third worlders are willing to work for peanuts so whites get forced out of the workforce. DEI also doesnt improve our situation.  The human is no longer a living, valuable organism. Its an economic unit.
Also, I would love to have a more in depth discussion about this. My dc user: larpwaffen.

2.b. I brought up the jews since they are integral to national socialist theory and also because they are potrayed as these wholesome people who were unjustly persecuted even though there is a really really good reason why we did that.

I would be open to answering any question of yours even if its not tied to my response. We are here to discuss this ideology so feel free to ask any questions.
Again, im very sorry for the extremely late response. If you want we could make another "session" or whatever its called so that we can have a longer debate.
Con
#8
"I would be open to answering any question of yours even if its not tied to my response. We are here to discuss this ideology so feel free to ask any questions.
Again, im very sorry for the extremely late response. If you want we could make another "session" or whatever its called so that we can have a longer debate."

I'm all willing for another session especially if my questions last round weren't answered.

"Workers would have a few options on what type of house they would recive but there would be like 3-4 variations at most. "

So unfortunately, this ideology is already fallen short. Simply because "a few options" is short and is definitely short of heaven as you outlined as described.

"Non goverment workers would still get taxed."

So where you said "no tax", you really didn't mean no tax or you're changing what your original position was . Now the people that are paid through tax dollars wouldn't fall in line with this socialism you're talking about because these individuals would use their own money to support themselves as opposed to others, non government entities that are socialized in this ideology. So it isn't so much ideal any more leaving pockets of society out of it such as government entities.
Then you include military, a government entity in there as being controlled corporately to tack on this ideology. This is convoluted.

"I added in "ensured welfare/workers rights" so that people know it would still be around in my system."

So because of this socialistic idea, rights are curtailed then what they are without it. Again, that isn't heaven to a number of people.


"White supremacy is a made up fairy tale imo. Whilst probably yes, in the past during colonialism such a system did exist today its flipped around. Even though whites are better at compiling code, indians get mass imported into the USA for example because of their "culture". Ofc, we all know that thats not true, they are hired over the white man because they are willing to work for less. "

Ok, who's doing the hiring? Who owns majority if not all major businesses and fortune 500 corporations?

At the top it is always going to be somebody "white". If that's not "white" supremacy, what else is?

Who is the most enslaved to the system of "white supremacy "?

From the time slavery transitioned from the cotton fields to the railroads and iron bars, "non white " people have continued to support the system. If you are "white" you benefit most of all whether recognizing or not. The control of commerce and labor is mainly on the supreme side, the "white" population. It's not personal, it's just business. This thing started out on account of business.

"The human is no longer a living, valuable organism. Its an economic unit."

A person has always been a commodity particularly since slavery for labor and the beginning of the economy itself perhaps aside from bartering.


"Also, I would love to have a more in depth discussion about this. My dc user: larpwaffen."

You can send me a message on a date and time.


Round 5
Pro
#9
Thank you for your response.

"So unfortunately, this ideology is already fallen short. Simply because "a few options" is short and is definitely short of heaven as you outlined as described."

Im not an architect nor a time traveler.I dont have to be a all knowing God to make an ideology work. Constitutions for example, are not written by the leaders or leader of the state. Not one person could write a whole constitution by himself. Professionals exist for a reason.

Tax policy

never said abolishing taxes, that would be suicidal. I said no taxes for the workers of the state owned corporations since they dont get a a lot of payment, instead they get all the things I already listed. Taxing them wouldnt make much sense. Business owners get to sell and produce almost anything so they get taxed while workers of the state owned corporations get no tax since they get a minimal amount of income. One has more freedom and pontentially very profitable but risky and is taxed whilst the other is restrictive but provides a stable low pay and almost 0 risk.

Race

These are american businesses, America is a 61% white nation so no suprise that most of these corporations are white owned. In the past 20 or so years America is being blessed with more and more non-whites thus its a more "diverse" than ever. The average immigrant isnt gonna be an entrepreneur but a regular worker. And ofc the white is still gonna be in controll of most high value corporations, they are qualified. Whites on avg are way more qualified than blacks for example.
But despite all of this your argument is dead in the water when DEI is brought up. If America for example, ran on a system of white supremacy, why in the world would we let indians run more and more businesses? Google for example. Why would we implement DEI when we are supposedly racists? White supremacy isnt real, as you yourself said its just business. I can call a lion a cat and whilst I would be "wrong" it would still be stupid of me to do.

"The human is no longer a living, valuable organism. Its an economic unit."
I recommend watching this video (https://www.bitchute.com/video/YwtVOgHJU7I)


Con
#10
"Im not an architect nor a time traveler.I dont have to be a all knowing God to make an ideology work. Constitutions for example, are not written by the leaders or leader of the state. Not one person could write a whole constitution by himself. Professionals exist for a reason."

Yes we accept your ideology's shortcoming.

"I never said abolishing taxes, that would be suicidal. I said no taxes for the workers of the state owned corporations since they dont get a a lot of payment, instead they get all the things I already listed. Taxing them wouldnt make much sense. Business owners get to sell and produce almost anything so they get taxed while workers of the state owned corporations get no tax since they get a minimal amount of income. One has more freedom and pontentially very profitable but risky and is taxed whilst the other is restrictive but provides a stable low pay and almost 0 risk."

Alright so now you explained more of what was lacking in the earlier round unless I missed it. I didn't see where you said taxes will still exist to be paid by business owners. You said no tax. So with that, we don't truly have so called national socialism. We have business owners, not nation business owners but business owners in a nation of so called national socialism.
What you're talking about is a government parsonage of sorts for corporate workers in a pocket or niche like welfare for a pocket or niche. So I have to say this was poorly elaborated.

"These are american businesses, America is a 61% white nation so no suprise that most of these corporations are white owned. In the past 20 or so years America is being blessed with more and more non-whites thus its a more "diverse" than ever. The average immigrant isnt gonna be an entrepreneur but a regular worker. And ofc the white is still gonna be in controll of most high value corporations, they are qualified. Whites on avg are way more qualified than blacks for example.
But despite all of this your argument is dead in the water when DEI is brought up. If America for example, ran on a system of white supremacy, why in the world would we let indians run more and more businesses? Google for example. Why would we implement DEI when we are supposedly racists? White supremacy isnt real, as you yourself said its just business. I can call a lion a cat and whilst I would be "wrong" it would still be stupid of me to do."

Instant replay your own words : "America is a 61% white nation so no suprise that most of these corporations are white owned"

So therefore "white supremacy " has not come to an end. People, particularly refined seamless covert "white supremacists" try to downplay this with the talking points you're giving. I'm making no accusations because I agree with the code book on that about making accusations from Neely Fuller Jr. I recommend you look him up on YouTube since we're recommending.

Instant replay your own words : "America is a 61% white nation so no suprise that most of these corporations are white owned"

"If America for example, ran on a system of white supremacy, why in the world would we let indians run more and more businesses?"

The answer is in the question.

"If America for example, ran on a system of white supremacy, why in the world would we let indians run more and more businesses?"

Whoever that "we" is , is supreme over those that let and allow them do anything, allow and let them continue in business and end it like "black wall street".

Good talk buddy.