Instigator / Con
25
1520
rating
6
debates
66.67%
won
Topic
#717

Was Fraser Anning’s egg attack justified?

Status
Finished

The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.

Winner & statistics
Better arguments
6
9
Better sources
10
10
Better legibility
5
5
Better conduct
4
5

After 5 votes and with 4 points ahead, the winner is...

TheRealNihilist
Parameters
Publication date
Last updated date
Type
Standard
Number of rounds
3
Time for argument
Two days
Max argument characters
30,000
Voting period
One week
Point system
Multiple criterions
Voting system
Open
Contender / Pro
29
1650
rating
44
debates
77.27%
won
Description

This is relatively old news, but still talked about today.

In this short debate, we will be discussing if Will Connolly should have thrown an egg at Fraser Anning.

Here is a link to the video.
https://youtu.be/4X0ttuGq_9s

During a speech regarding the Christchurch shooting, a 17 year old cracked an egg on Fraser Anning’s head. Mr Anning then retaliated by slapping the teen twice, before the teen was tackled by multiple witnesses. No charges have been made against Will, however people want Fraser Anning out of the senate because he retaliated.

"Fraser Anning was providing his opinion during a speech when Will made the decision to interfere by assaulting him. What gives anyone, especially a random teenager, to take away a person’s right to expressing their opinion?

Secondly, you may argue that Fraser Anning should be punished for retaliating against Will. If you wish for Fraser Anning to be punished, then it would mean that you also wish to punish Will for assault. Will is the aggressor in this scenario. He made the conscious decision to assault another person. Why should Fraser Anning be charged with assault, while Will is able to simply walk away without any consequences. He is old enough to understand that his actions have consequences. Even Will himself admitted that what he did was wrong. During an interview on SBS, Will said “There is no reason to physically attack anyone.” This shows that even the person who committed the assault does not believe that what he did was right."

^^^ This is the sandwiching

You are frankly someone I don't enjoy the presence of much, so I have little reason to make you happy with this RFD but I just want to tell you that the only way you would stand a chance is to separate 'justified' from 'correct'.

If you began to alter the BoP to be you proving there was justification, whether valid enough to say the act was correct or not, you'd have found the only way to avoid his BoP-sandwich having full effect. This still would be rigged against you as he'd go more specifically into violence vs speech but it would finally have put you on more relatively equal footing.

This was a difficult debate to win as Pro, don't feel like you lost an easy debate. It was difficult, just learn and improve.

Foundation? So you didn't actually quote where he did the "sandwiching" instead you bring up a quote that doesn't support your point? Okay.

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@TheRealNihilist

I did. I quoted where he laid the foundation for the BoP sandwiching in R1 just 2 debate-comments ago: https://www.debateart.com/debates/717/comment_links/7861

You can't provide evidence for the extra-ordinary claim you made "Brendo pointed this out from Round 1 in reverse, saying that violence is an even more free and offensive expression than speech and if you justify that you are forced to defend Anning's right to speak rudely."

So you moved the goalpost to "He was the victim, not the perpetrator of the egg attack."

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@TheRealNihilist

He was the victim, not the perpetrator of the egg attack.

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@TheRealNihilist

"Fraser Anning was providing his opinion during a speech when Will made the decision to interfere by assaulting him. What gives anyone, especially a random teenager, to take away a person’s right to expressing their opinion?"

"Brendo pointed this out from Round 1 in reverse, saying that violence is an even more free and offensive expression than speech and if you justify that you are forced to defend Anning's right to speak rudely."
Quote?

"you were suggesting how powerful and potent Anning's speech was to demand powerful attack against him so why didn't the egg-smasher use speech instead of violence? "
My case was in order to stop false information spreading he requires to be silenced in that context. He is not powerful by his physicality or his presence on Twitter but he can be later on. The debate was about if he was justified or not in the egg attack.

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@TheRealNihilist

A glaring flaw in your case, that I refer to there, is that you were suggesting how powerful and potent Anning's speech was to demand powerful attack against him so why didn't the egg-smasher use speech instead of violence? Brendo pointed this out from Round 1 in reverse, saying that violence is an even more free and offensive expression than speech and if you justify that you are forced to defend Anning's right to speak rudely.

"Omar tried to justify how dangerous the speech of the guy inciting violence against certain religions and ethnicities is but if speech is so powerful why didn't Will just talk against the guy?"
What?

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@oromagi

"Obviously, I found your argument more appealing politically but I think the political appeal was precisely what weakened your case."
I still stand by that comment but if Brendo does not want to do the debate again if it ends in a tie I will surely provide evidence to support my case. I will get you to believe violence is justified based on political actions.
Thanks for the vote anyway.

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@TheRealNihilist

Thanks for the invitation, sorry to vote against you. Obviously, I found your argument more appealing politically but I think the political appeal was precisely what weakened your case.

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Vote Reported: Madmax1976 // Mod Action: Removed

Points awarded: 6 points to con for arguments, sources, and conduct

RFD: The reasons why I think con won over pro
Reason 1: First of all pro has basically stated that he is not right wing and they are bad and not everyone that is right wing is bad which is stupid in my opinion. Hitler was a bad person I think we can all agree that he was .H e was a left wing dose that make Him a good person I don’t think so which is why in this third round he states “Thank you now I can see how bad you really are” because Brendo is right wing which I don’t think should be accounted for when just because your left or right schooled count.
Reason 2: Omar stated that because he doesn't like what he said about the Muslims but dose they give you the right to throw an egg at someone for doing so I don’t think so and is classified as assault which Will was the main instigator for the assault so that dose not make it right to throw and egg
Final review: I believe brendo won’t this debate by far since Omar rambled on about things that were pointless and has no context to what he was talking about so all my points are giving to brendo other than spelling which was kept as a tie

Reason for mod action: The voter fails to meet the standards set forth by the COC here: https://www.debateart.com/rules

Please read the COC page. Specifically the portion aboud what counts as a good vote
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@oromagi

Can you vote as well?

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@David
@whiteflame
@Ramshutu

Can you vote on this debate?

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@Brendo

I think the only one should be punished is the teen who threw the egg. He might have been punished enough when he got slapped twice.

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@Alec

I didn’t even know he had an account until he accepted the debate. I will probably block him after the debate.

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@Brendo

If you don't want Omar 2345 debating you in the future, in your debate description, state, "Omar 2345 is not allowed to participate in this debate." and you could state it is an automatic loss on his part if he accepts.

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@Wrick-It-Ralph

His case was not that good. Hopefully people on this site will understand.

The great egg debate strikes again!!!

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@Brendo

I plan on winning this won.