Is Israel Justified?

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This is a summary of the history of the land of Israel that I have gathered from various sources and jumbled together:
The origins of Israel can be traced back to Abraham, who is considered the patriarch of both Judaism (through his son Isaac) and Islam (through his son Ishmael). Abraham's descendants are believed to have been enslaved by the Egyptians for several centuries before settling in the region of Canaan, which roughly corresponds to modern-day Israel. The name "Israel" is derived from Jacob, Abraham's grandson, who was renamed "Israel" by the Hebrew God as mentioned in the Bible.

Around 1000 B.C., King David ruled the region, and his son King Solomon is credited with the construction of the first holy temple in ancient Jerusalem. In approximately 931 B.C., the region was divided into two kingdoms: Israel in the north and Judah in the south.

In 722 B.C., the northern kingdom of Israel was invaded and destroyed by the Assyrians, while in 568 B.C., the Babylonians conquered Jerusalem and destroyed the first temple. It was subsequently replaced by a second temple around 516 B.C. Over the following centuries, the land of modern-day Israel saw various rulers, including the Persians, Greeks, Romans, Arabs, Fatimids, Seljuk Turks, Crusaders, Egyptians, Mamluks, Islamists, and others.

From 1517 to 1917, the region that encompasses present-day Israel, along with much of the Middle East, was under the rule of the Ottoman Empire.

During the Ottoman Empire's reign, a diaspora of Jewish people from their homeland occurred, leading to widespread oppression of Jews worldwide. In response, the Zionist movement was sparked in 1880, as Jews slowly began to migrate back to Israel.

After World War I ended in 1918 with an Allied victory, the 400-year rule of the Ottoman Empire came to an end, and Great Britain assumed control over what would later become known as Palestine (encompassing modern-day Israel, Palestine, and Jordan).

Zionists sought to establish a Jewish homeland in Palestine, leading to significant Jewish immigration and the establishment of settlements. Between 1882 and 1903, approximately 35,000 Jews relocated to Palestine, with an additional 40,000 settling in the area between 1904 and 1914. Many Jews, fearing persecution during the Nazi era, found refuge in Palestine and embraced Zionism.

Following the Holocaust and the end of World War II, the focus of the Zionist movement shifted toward creating an independent Jewish state. This endeavor encountered resistance from the Arab population in Palestine, leading to ongoing tensions. An Arab nationalist movement emerged in response.

In 1947, the United Nations decided to partition Palestine into two states: a Jewish state of Israel and an Arab state of Palestine. While Israel agreed to the partition, the Arab nations rejected it, leading to violence initiated by the Arab Palestinians.

Almost immediately, the Arab League, consisting of states such as Egypt, Lebanon, Jordan, Iraq, Syria, Yemen, and Saudi Arabia, rejected the UN's partition and launched an attack. It is essential to clarify that the Arab states initiated the conflict, not the Jewish state of Israel.

Israel defended itself, and after more than nine months of conflict, Israeli forces took control of most of the land designated by the UN for Palestine. Egypt assumed control of the Gaza Strip, while Jordan (then TransJordan) took over the West Bank. The original plan for a Palestinian state was abandoned due to Palestinian actions.

While many Jews saw this as a victory, many Palestinian civilians were displaced and fled their homes. It is crucial to emphasize that the responsibility for this displacement lies with the Arab nations. These refugees sought refuge in the Gaza Strip and the West Bank, leading to escalating tensions in the following decades, including intermittent fighting caused by extremist Islamic terror groups targeting Israeli civilians.

In 1964, the Palestinian Liberation Organization (P.L.O) was formed to consolidate the power of various small Palestinian groups fighting against the Jewish state of Israel. In the 1967 Six-Day War, Israel successfully defended against attacks from Egypt, Syria, and Jordan, resulting in significant territorial gains, including the West Bank, Gaza Strip, and the Sinai Peninsula.

In 1987, a collision between an Israeli Defense Forces' (IDF) truck and a civilian car led to the outbreak of the First Intifada, a violent uprising led by Palestinian militias. The ensuing violence resulted in around 200 Israeli deaths and approximately 1,500 Israeli civilian casualties. Israel's defensive actions also led to significant casualties among Palestinian militia groups.

Following the First Intifada, Israel agreed to a temporary peace treaty with the P.L.O, extending until the year 2000. It's worth noting that this agreement came after the P.L.O had initiated attacks in response to a car accident. Subsequent peace talks after 2000 failed to yield an agreement, primarily due to disputes over issues such as the status of Jerusalem, the rights of refugees, and the expansion of Jewish settlements in Palestinian territories.

In 2000, Ariel Sharon, who would later become Israel's Prime Minister, visited the Temple Mount, home to the Al-Aqsa Mosque in Jerusalem, an action perceived as offensive by many Palestinians. This led to violent protests, riots, attacks, and suicide bombings, sparking the Second Intifada, which lasted for nearly five years and effectively ended prospects for peace. The violence ceased in 2005 when Israel unilaterally withdrew from Gaza, returning the land to Palestinian control, despite earlier attacks.

In 2006, Hamas, a militant Sunni Islamist group, won the Palestinian legislative elections. Many countries, including Israel, consider Hamas a terrorist organization due to its use of tactics like suicide bombings and its call for the destruction of Israel. Tensions and clashes between Hamas and Israel continued.

In 2017, Hamas called for the formation of a Palestinian state based on the 1967 borders, but this call did not formally recognize Israel as a state. Consequently, Israel did not accept the proposal, as it would essentially threaten its existence as a nation.

In my opinion, according to history, Israel is more justified in their attack on Hamas in Palestine. 
But I would like your thoughts and opinions. 
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"I think whatever Ben Shapiro thinks"
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Welcome back
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@Best.Korea
"I think whatever Ben Shapiro thinks."
I disagree with Ben Shapiro a lot. 
I think Israel is a very corrupt country with a lot of faults, but in this situation, I believe that they are beyond justified.

Welcome back
Also, thanks!


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@YouFound_Lxam
I think Israel is a very corrupt country with a lot of faults, but in this situation, I believe that they are beyond justified
Yeah, I believe Israeli should return to USA, but first return 1 trillion dollars that USA gave them.

My solution is more peaceful, obviously.
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@Best.Korea
Thats not the issue I am discussing here, but yes, that claim is valid. 
Lemming
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Well, of 'justified,
. . . It's not the 'history of Israel that interests me, but their capability and future plans.

"No one starts a war--or rather, no one in his sense ought to do so--without first being clear in his mind what he intends to achieve by the war and how he intends to conduct it." - https://www.goodreads.com/author/quotes/67848.Carl_von_Clausewitz#:~:text=No%20one%20starts%20a%20war,he%20intends%20to%20conduct%20it.

Of course Israel was attacked first,
But they still had/have options on what amount/degree they were/are going to' commit to.

Retaliation is a common concept,
Common thinking logical to hit back, show enemy they cannot attack without risk,
Though some argue Hamas 'wanted Israel to strike back, just not to this extent,
Though who 'knows the minds of Hamas leadership?
. .
But further in,
'Beyond retaliation, as Israel seems committed, what are their objectives, are they attainable?

Would other methods have achieved their objectives?
. . .

"With strong American backing, Israel has defined two clear goals: bringing home all of the hostages and destroying Hamas, the Islamic militant group that has governed Gaza since ousting the Palestinian Authority in 2007."

What motivates objective?
My theory is,
Loyalty to tribe stolen,
Wanting to safeguard tribe not stolen, by showing what such kidnapping will result in.

One arguable reason some countries have so many kidnappings, is that in those countries, it 'works, people pay,
If people 'don't pay, don't negotiate, arguably kidnapping might drop.
I say 'might drop, as there are other reasons kidnapping can frequent occur.

What motivates objective 2?
My theory is,
Wanting to safeguard tribe not stolen, by destroying group that has continually encouraged and attacked one's tribe. That it cannot do so in the future.

How will Israel 'fulfil these objectives?
'Can they?

I'm not very familiar with this type of situation,
Would Great Britain and Ireland be an example,
Ireland seemed to manage to cut itself away,
Some differences in religion I think, terrorism.
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Arguably there are possibly other objectives/methods.

There 'are Israelis who want to drive out 'all not of their tribe, I would 'think.

Money is often involved in wars,

Some people might desire peace for all,
Such as the people massacred at the music festival.
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@Lemming
Of course Israel was attacked first,
But they still had/have options on what amount/degree they were/are going to' commit to.

Retaliation is a common concept,
Common thinking logical to hit back, show enemy they cannot attack without risk,
Though some argue Hamas 'wanted Israel to strike back, just not to this extent,
Though who 'knows the minds of Hamas leadership?
I think when it comes to the degree that Israel retaliated, we would have to look at the specific things in the war taking place that the media wouldn't talk about. So maybe they could of, but strategically, maybe that was their best option. 

Also, I think we can make a fairly educated guess on Hamas leadership, by looking at again, what strategies and tactics they use (which include suicide bombing and terrorism), in order to take a peek into the mind of Hamas leadership. 

But further in,
'Beyond retaliation, as Israel seems committed, what are their objectives, are they attainable?
I don't look very deep into the politics of Israel and their said goals, but I do believe that based on evidence from history, we can see that they don't (or didn't up until recently) want to destroy Palestine or anything drastic of that matter. 

"With strong American backing, Israel has defined two clear goals: bringing home all of the hostages and destroying Hamas, the Islamic militant group that has governed Gaza since ousting the Palestinian Authority in 2007."
I think that this is a good goal. A terrorist group (not called that just by Israel, but many other countries), being removed to prevent destruction. And bringing home hostages is also good. 

What motivates objective?
My theory is,
Loyalty to tribe stolen,
Wanting to safeguard tribe not stolen, by showing what such kidnapping will result in.
I agree. 

What motivates objective 2?
My theory is,
Wanting to safeguard tribe not stolen, by destroying group that has continually encouraged and attacked one's tribe. That it cannot do so in the future.
I also agree. 
Lemming
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@YouFound_Lxam
Arguably there's often 'some faction in tribes, that's wanting to increase it's tribe, push out other tribes.
Sometimes 'very influential factions, regardless of if majority or minority.

Of Israel I haven't read enough to 'know how influential they have been,
They 'area one main religion/group state though, I think.

I've also become a 'lot more tribes 'ought be more xenophobic myself lately, (Still unsure on that view of mine though)
. . .

Still, 'lot of conflict since Israel's made it's comeback as self entity, (The mass migration of Jews I mean sometime after WW2, though Jews were still living in Israel before the mass migration)
Not 'just on Israel though, the many conflicts.
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I don't know much about Hamas leadership,
I've heard people say something about some of them being in Qatar, (Sorry no source, I've not researched)
But I mention because people far from fight, sometimes (Not always) have different motivations.

Self interested people often exist in organizations, because of money, power, or serving different nations, different ideals.
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Which God is going to win this video game, Yahweh or Allah?
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@FLRW
Well Allah means: the God
And Yahweh means: LORD

Basically, Yahweh is a more personalized name for God.

So, both will technically win, because they mean the same thing, just in different languages. 

But if you are referring to the Islamic interpretation of God, then obviously he won't win, because he doesn't exist. 
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@YouFound_Lxam
All Arabs together.

Feisty lot.

Plenty of room in Saudi Arabia for a couple of million Palestinians.

But I'm not sure that the Saudis are keen on the idea.
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@zedvictor4
They might not be,
I've seen a number of Reddit posts arguing that when Palestinians have come into various other states, various states of unrest have occurred near the same time.

But I've not researched it in depth, so I'm unsure if people in that area have that perception of Palestine.
I'm also not stating that Palestinians 'are like that,
Though people in 'general, are often like that when mass displaced in poor conditions, perhaps.
. . .

Even without that though, people tend to push back, even against those similar to themselves,

When 'dissimilar though, even a 'little bit, pushback can become greater.
. . .

People are. . Concerned with their spheres of power often.
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Course on another hand,
One could argue nations around Palestine don't want to accept a ton of immigrants, out of support of Palestine as a country.
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If Mexico launched rockets in to Texas 4 times a year for 20 years then sent in terrorists to slaughter 1400 people indiscriminately I would level every building with in 50 miles of the boarder.  Mexico could use the same excuse as Hamas and the Palestinians for launching rockets and terrorism.
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@sadolite
If Mexico launched rockets in to Texas 4 times a year for 20 years then sent in terrorists to slaughter 1400 people indiscriminately I would level every building with in 50 miles of the boarder.  Mexico could use the same excuse as Hamas and the Palestinians for launching rockets and terrorism.
Amen
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@Lemming
Yep the answers and then the excuse.

Spot on.

Wouldn't it be nice if peace was the primary goal.

But raising men of violence seems to be the primary goal.
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@sadolite
Great. You are a psychopath.
FLRW
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@YouFound_Lxam

No, they are both gamers.

27 days later

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@zedvictor4
Plenty of room in Saudi Arabia for a couple of million Palestinians.

But I'm not sure that the Saudis are keen on the idea.

The same with the Egyptians and Jordanians, I wonder why.  

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@Stephen
I wonder why.
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Its labeled a War.  If it is War, then historically innocent people die in war.

I stated before that I think Israel has gone a little bit overboard in consideration of old ways of middle eastern { Biblical via former  Babylonians } ideas of eye for and eye and tooth for a tooth etc.

War is hell and Hamas released violent hell on Israel.  So hell has reaped more hell, tho to a greater degree  of people receiving violence.

Yes, this onboard tactic has gotten back some of the hostages and lessened Hamas network  --too whatever degree----, and USA Blinkin in Tel Aviv today asking for more restraint { less hell on Palistenians }  --innocent to whatever degree---   from Israel.

 I supported sending USA fighter jets and tanks too Ukraine.  I'm for more humanitarian restraint by Israel in rooting out and destroying Hamas. 

 Today Israel claims more rockets coming from Gaza. I have no reason to doubt this is true.  So how does a nation react to this?  With Iron Missile defense system is one way that works --as it does to some degree in Ukraine--    and currently that is enough to of response to  Hezbollah in north, since they have not entered and killed thousand or so and taken 250 hostages.

  USA attempts to keep this hell on Earth from spreading outside of Gaza appears to be working for the most part.

I have friends in Israel and I told them years ago, I would never choose to live their because of the incoming rockets. 

I recall my science teacher from 7th grade ---many years ago--- saying WW 3 will begin middle east. 






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@ebuc

I'm guessing Iran will nuke Israel.
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@FLRW
Iran is much larger than Israel. Israel is tiny.
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@FLRW
MAD.

Who's daft enough to try their luck?