Capitalism vs Wealth redistribution

Author: Best.Korea

Posts

Total: 13
Best.Korea
Best.Korea's avatar
Debates: 269
Posts: 7,543
4
6
10
Best.Korea's avatar
Best.Korea
4
6
10
The main argument of capitalists is that government intervention always makes things worse.

They follow premise:
P1. Government interventing to help poor people will not help poor people, but will harm poor people.

Now, while its true that historically, there were countries with very little government intervention, most of the rich countries today have lots of wealth redistribution.

Thus, capitalists would have to defend position that countries with most free market have least poverty.
This position is very hard to defend, because
1. Countries with least poverty are countries that have lots of government intervention.
2. There is no country on Earth without wealth redistribution

Also, they would have to defend that capitalism on its own wont produce the effect of wealth moving up.
Because wealthy people would have much more wealth without high taxes, it follows that their buying power would increase. Thus, they would consume more products from market, and market would increase production for the wealthy while reducing production for the less wealthy.
Since in capitalism, the richer you are, the easier you can compete and more you can consume, there is basically no guarantee that making rich richer helps the poor.

Capitalists would argue that:
P1. Not helping the poor motivates poor people to get a job.

While it is undeniable that poor, if being left on their own, would be forced to die or find a way to survive on their own, this doesnt result in much good. First, the job they might get would likely be the lowest wage job. They would likely have no money for health service, leaving them in very vunerable position if they get sick.
Second, the unemployment rate in countries with lots of wealth redistribution is very low.
Third, poor people having access to health services payed by government ultimately makes them more productive, where without health services their health would decay and force them out of workforce.
n8nrgim
n8nrgim's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 953
3
2
4
n8nrgim's avatar
n8nrgim
3
2
4
Every developed country has a social safety net. Only undeveloped countries don't. The real question is to focus on how much of a net is best. The USA spends about what other developed countries spends, if private Healthcare is included in USA. USA has less of a social net cause we spend twice as much on Healthcare and our military is bigger than the next biggest counties combined
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 22,934
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@Best.Korea
Capitalism is about wealth creation.
FLRW
FLRW's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 5,116
3
4
8
FLRW's avatar
FLRW
3
4
8
-->
@Best.Korea

ebuc
ebuc's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 4,270
3
2
4
ebuc's avatar
ebuc
3
2
4
-->
@FLRW
I agree, wealth is being distributed,  --to much greater degree---,  to smaller rich minority.

The gap between rich and poor is growing,  as is the gap between rich and middle class since 70's 80's.

Yes overall humanity sees overall less poverty compared to 1900, tho, the issues now facing us beyond global economics.  The issues now are about structural and systemic integrities for humanities survival beyond 2065 - 2265 >>> not good.


Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 22,934
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
I think this list should be called "Top Ten Examples From a Man Who Doesn't Understand Capitalism."
10. A government that artificially manipulates a workforces to keep wages low is not capitalism. Capitalism depends on as little government manipulation as possible.
9 Inequality isn't a bad thing. Instead, it offers incentive to work harder than the person next to you.
8. Did he really try to use the now-collapsed economy of the USSR to prove that their method was better? ... really?
7. Overconsumption is more of an issue within capitalism than underconsumption. Consider the US and China (not that the US utllizes unregulated capitalism anymore).
6. There is nothing wrong with 'free-riding' as long as the original buyer receives the product purchased. Unless, of course, you resent sharing.
5. Most monopolies in current existence have been created by government manipulation; consider your utility companies. Microsoft, on the otherhand, is a monopoly because they provide a great product at a reasonable price. Which would you prefer?
4. This is a legitimate gripe, though it deals with individual liberty not capitalism. Capitalism is an economic system; blowing smoke in someone's face is not an economic issue.
3. The health insurance industry is heavily regulated. Thus, it is quite the opposite of a free market.
2. However, this also results in faster technological improvements. If a company must improve its product or service to stay in business, then it will invest to do so. If a company does not need to do so, then there is less incentive to invest.
1. Capitalism doesn't force you to have wants or desires. Instead, it offers you a plethora of options regarding where to spend your money. Your wants are not part of capitalism.
You cannot attempt to disprove the validity of capitalism by providing examples that are not capitalistic in nature. Well, actually you can (as is evidenced by this list) - you just look....like a Democrat...

FLRW
FLRW's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 5,116
3
4
8
FLRW's avatar
FLRW
3
4
8

   UNHAPPY
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 22,934
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
The author says he is unhappy on his mobile device ... so capitalism is bad? By choosing to buy a phone that offers cool tools - the system is flawed because you "Must" buy the new phone or you will not be happy ... or just buy a flip phone/ Got it...

Complaining about Capitalism is a luxury only 1st world nations engage in.
Best.Korea
Best.Korea's avatar
Debates: 269
Posts: 7,543
4
6
10
Best.Korea's avatar
Best.Korea
4
6
10
-->
@Greyparrot
Complaining about Capitalism is a luxury only 1st world nations engage in.
Thats kinda strange, given that most 1st world nations arent capitalist.

And I am pretty sure that poor people in Africa complain about capitalism.
Best.Korea
Best.Korea's avatar
Debates: 269
Posts: 7,543
4
6
10
Best.Korea's avatar
Best.Korea
4
6
10
-->
@Greyparrot
You cannot attempt to disprove the validity of capitalism by providing examples that are not capitalistic in nature.
Are there any examples of capitalism anywhere? You know, other than illegal market of drugs, guns and theft of copyrights?

Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 22,934
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@Best.Korea
Prostitution.

Thats kinda strange, given that most 1st world nations arent capitalist.
No, it's inevitable when spoiled Americans complain about how capitalism spoiled them. A poor 3rd world African child is too busy choosing between having to starve or work in an American managed cobalt mine to complain about being sad about a flip-phone.
Best.Korea
Best.Korea's avatar
Debates: 269
Posts: 7,543
4
6
10
Best.Korea's avatar
Best.Korea
4
6
10
-->
@Greyparrot
Prostitution.
Thats capitalism.
IlDiavolo
IlDiavolo's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 1,231
3
2
5
IlDiavolo's avatar
IlDiavolo
3
2
5
-->
@FLRW
Man, now I know why you're a democrat. 😁