The trolley problem - Rules vs Consequentialism - Are rules to be used by most people?

Author: Best.Korea

Posts

Total: 17
Best.Korea
Best.Korea's avatar
Debates: 270
Posts: 7,731
4
6
10
Best.Korea's avatar
Best.Korea
4
6
10
"The trolley problem is a thought experiment in ethics about a fictional scenario in which an onlooker has the choice to save 5 people in danger of being hit by a trolley, by diverting the trolley to kill just 1 person."


The trolley problem gives you a choice to take action that kills 1 person, or take no action which results in 5 people being killed but not because of you.

Now, rules would say: 
Its always wrong to kill innocents.
Therefore, you acting to kill 1 innocent person would be wrong even if it saves 5 lives as its result.

Consequentialism based on life or happiness would say:
Action that contains harm, but is more beneficial than harmful, is a good action.
Therefore, such consequentialism would justify the action that kills 1 person to save 5.

Consequentialism based on reduction of pain would argue that its same either way, as those 5 people would likely experience a lot of pain in life and even cause pain, so saving them this one time does not guarantee a reduction in pain.

But what I noticed is that most people are incapable of comparing benefits and harms. In fact, most people fall for bias and search only those information which support their view. Therefore, most people are not capable to use consequentialism in a way that its supposed to be used. This is why for them, its better to rely on rules.

The basic rules, such as do not lie, are often violated by people who think it brings some greater benefit. But ultimately, it produces a society of liars, because you cannot lie and expect that nobody else does the same.
FLRW
FLRW's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 5,138
3
4
8
FLRW's avatar
FLRW
3
4
8
-->
@Best.Korea

zedvictor4
zedvictor4's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 11,294
3
3
6
zedvictor4's avatar
zedvictor4
3
3
6
-->
@Best.Korea
Now.

Can you explain how a trolley that will kill 5, can be diverted to only kill one.

One would assume that a trolley that will kill five, if diverted, would therefore miss all 5.

Can you explain the logistics, perhaps with an accompanying diagram.

I suppose that if the trolley has dodgy wheels and has a tendency to swerve randomly.

Though under these circumstances I can't see how one could predict fatalities with such certainty and accuracy.


Perhaps the trolley problem is just another load of philosophical bunkum.
Best.Korea
Best.Korea's avatar
Debates: 270
Posts: 7,731
4
6
10
Best.Korea's avatar
Best.Korea
4
6
10
-->
@zedvictor4
Well, real life situations are far from trolley problem.
Best.Korea
Best.Korea's avatar
Debates: 270
Posts: 7,731
4
6
10
Best.Korea's avatar
Best.Korea
4
6
10
-->
@zedvictor4
Can you explain how a trolley that will kill 5, can be diverted to only kill one.
One would assume that a trolley that will kill five, if diverted, would therefore miss all 5.
Apparently, trolley has only 2 possible paths.

One path has 5 people in its path.

Other path has 1 person in its path.
zedvictor4
zedvictor4's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 11,294
3
3
6
zedvictor4's avatar
zedvictor4
3
3
6
-->
@Best.Korea
Far too hypothetical and unrealistic to be a real problem.
Best.Korea
Best.Korea's avatar
Debates: 270
Posts: 7,731
4
6
10
Best.Korea's avatar
Best.Korea
4
6
10
-->
@zedvictor4
Real life problems usually have unexpected outcomes and unknowns.
FLRW
FLRW's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 5,138
3
4
8
FLRW's avatar
FLRW
3
4
8

The US military has launched strikes against multiple Houthi targets in Houthi-controlled areas of Yemen. I think this will create a trolley problem.
n8nrgim
n8nrgim's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 953
3
2
4
n8nrgim's avatar
n8nrgim
3
2
4
I always propose proportionalism in response to those who say the ends can never justify the means even in difficult situations like this
zedvictor4
zedvictor4's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 11,294
3
3
6
zedvictor4's avatar
zedvictor4
3
3
6
-->
@Best.Korea
Real life problems may have unpredictable outcomes, or may have predictable outcomes.

However, neither is a certainty, because we cannot see into the future.

Whereas the hypothetical trolley problem, is simply that.


So my solution to the trolley problem is:

X = 5 + 1 - 1x

Did you see that coming?
Reece101
Reece101's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 1,915
3
2
2
Reece101's avatar
Reece101
3
2
2
-->
@zedvictor4
I don’t think algebra can quantify the value of human life within this hypothetical. 
zedvictor4
zedvictor4's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 11,294
3
3
6
zedvictor4's avatar
zedvictor4
3
3
6
-->
@Reece101
X = The variable,  hypothetically quantified value of human life.
Reece101
Reece101's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 1,915
3
2
2
Reece101's avatar
Reece101
3
2
2
-->
@zedvictor4
I’m shit at math but aren’t you just saying how many lives there are in a roundabout way using algebra?
zedvictor4
zedvictor4's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 11,294
3
3
6
zedvictor4's avatar
zedvictor4
3
3
6
-->
@Reece101
Well, if X = the trolley problem.

Then the trolley problem = 6  - the trolley problem.

The trolley problem being the variable, quantified value of human life.
Reece101
Reece101's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 1,915
3
2
2
Reece101's avatar
Reece101
3
2
2
-->
@zedvictor4
I’ll ignore that you didn’t answer me. Anyway, that’s what we call a truism. Yes, there are 6 lives within said trolly problem. 

sadolite
sadolite's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 2,902
3
2
4
sadolite's avatar
sadolite
3
2
4
Self preservation almost always wins in a split second decision, I don't consider it an ethics question.  Making ethical decisions  requires thought which takes time. 
zedvictor4
zedvictor4's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 11,294
3
3
6
zedvictor4's avatar
zedvictor4
3
3
6
-->
@Reece101
I should have said.

The trolley problem = 6 + or- the trolley problem.

Sorry for the negligence.