This should be an unofficial rule: No more attacking new users's arguments or debating them

Author: Best.Korea

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#1
Best.Korea
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I see it happen over and over.

The main problem of this site is that expert fights a noob, an experienced boxer fights a skinny guy, everyone already knows the outcome of the fight and the fight itself is not only pointless, but cruel.

I know that new users tend to come off as aggressive at first, and typical response of experienced users is to crush them.

New user comes to the site, then gets destroyed by experienced users and quits the site in embarrasment.

I think if we want new users on this site, we have to give them some space.

Let new users debate new users.

If you must engage new users, dont do so in a way to crush their world view.

I am not going to argue with new users anymore, if they attack my arguments, I will just ignore them, giving them the "victory".

If you want new users, make them feel more comfortable, let them have fun.
#2
WyIted
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Look at my 2nd debate after returning. I half assed my arguments. That is a much better alternative to having a noob accent their debate and forfeit every round
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#3
Best.Korea
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@WyIted
I think that both in forum and debate section, experts should not debate noobs.

I just dont see the point of everyone crushing new users and then complaining why there are no new users.

New users, in great majority of cases, dont even know how to make a topic or argument.
#4
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@Best.Korea
So I was a new user once. My debate was immediately accepted by tophatdoc. My resolution was that republicans and democrats are the same exact thing. I lost. No big deal. My 2nd debate was with whiteflame who started th same day s me over the HPV vaccine
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#5
Best.Korea
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@WyIted
Thats because you have lots of will power.

But most new users dont.

They need to build it before facing experts, or they will just leave the site after losing.
#6
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@Best.Korea
EOE.

#7
RationalMadman
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I mean I can quit again as many others have if that's what you want.

6 months away showed me how dead this site is, the only contradiction being said clashes you oppose.

If you come here wanting trashy, easy debates, you are going to quit and cry like a bitch the first time you Vs an experienced debater anyway, let's be real.

Let the worthy prove themselves.
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#8
Best.Korea
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@RationalMadman
I am saying: let noobs debate noobs.

I think after almost 2 years, this site's user base is pretty much same.

New people come, they almost never stick around.

If you come here wanting trashy, easy debates, you are going to quit and cry like a bitch the first time you Vs an experienced debater anyway, let's be real.
Possible, but I think new users should build debating will power by debating against new users. That way, whoever wins, new user will win and stick around for longer.

If you think its better to ruthlessly crush them, sure do so, but I dont see that as a working strategy to make new users stay.
#9
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@Best.Korea
I am saying: let noobs debate noobs.
Why? The site is so dead they have barely any other noobs to vs and the owner has made it so that their first 3 debates are unranked regardless.

I think after almost 2 years, this site's user base is pretty much same.
That's not relevant to this. If you mean the 'debating area' that's a lie, if you mean the 'forums area' it's largely because forum area attracts addicts to it and pushes away newcomers who aren't that obsessed.

New people come, they almost never stick around.
That's been true for all games and arenas like this, this is just deader than most.
If you come here wanting trashy, easy debates, you are going to quit and cry like a bitch the first time you Vs an experienced debater anyway, let's be real.
Possible, but I think new users should build debating will power by debating against new users. That way, whoever wins, new user will win and stick around for longer.
They won't, they'll actually develop wrong habits and flawed techniques that specifically work only vs bad-to-average opponents.

If you think its better to ruthlessly crush them, sure do so, but I dont see that as a working strategy to make new users stay.
I don't think it's ruthless. I think this reputation is the most reverse-truth reputation ever.

It's the pieces of shit who refuse to ever interact with noobs, crushing them or losing to them, chatting to them oranything with them, who make the dead site stay dead. Users who actively engage them are fun for them. I'd enjoy being crushed in my first debate, unfortunately I didn't get crushed in my first DDO debate, it actually disappointed me but I did very soon after and it lit a fire in me.
#10
zedvictor4
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@Best.Korea
How effective can an unofficial rule be?

In fact if you think about it, a rule that isn't official is a tad worthless.


Further:

Debateart is what it is.

And if you modify it's rules it will become somewhat different.

Which might mean that a few more people will take an interest at the expense of others that you choose to rule against.

Though one specialist website amongst a billion others will only ever draw a limited amount of dedicated users.


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#11
Best.Korea
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@RationalMadman
The site is so dead they have barely any other noobs to
New people come.

You know that.

 If you mean the 'debating area' that's a lie
Mostly same, with few new users who come and mostly get chased away.

they'll actually develop wrong habits and flawed techniques that specifically work only vs bad-to-average opponents.
I would rather let them develop bad habbits than be crushed and leave the site.

Plus, I say there should be some debating guide on this site to make new users stronger.

It's the pieces of shit who refuse to ever interact with noobs
I am not saying not to interact with them.

I am simply saying dont crush them.

Users who actively engage them are fun for them.
So fun that they leave the site instantly, yeah.
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#12
Best.Korea
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@RationalMadman
I'd enjoy being crushed in my first debate
You have to understand that you have a rare power most other people dont have.

Only a small percentage of people in the world are capable of logical debating.

Often it is those who are good in programming, writing scientific paper or writing good stories.

Most people simply arent at point where you are.

They are not going to learn anything when you crush them, they will just feel stupid.

I didnt know much when I first came on this site. I didnt even know what premises were or how they work.

I went through long time of studying, which was difficult for me because I didnt really have a clue where to start.

Some things take a long time to learn.

But I am one of those who have extremely strong will. I am not afraid of being humiliated by best debaters.
#13
sadolite
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So participation trophies.
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#14
Best.Korea
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@sadolite
Any system which punishes most people for participating is likely flawed.
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#15
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@zedvictor4
How effective can an unofficial rule be?
In fact if you think about it, a rule that isn't official is a tad worthless.
I agree that unofficial rules tend to be useless, but this one cant really be official because it would be really too much.


Further:
Debateart is what it is.
And if you modify it's rules it will become somewhat different.
Which might mean that a few more people will take an interest at the expense of others that you choose to rule against.
I dont plan to modify any rules, nor I have some ability to.

But what we have right now is a corrupt system which doesnt even work for top debaters themselves.

Of course, if it was up to me, entire voting system would be abolished because I dont really see the point in enabling "you vote for me, I vote for you" nonsense and endless fight to gather votes.

There is much more debating and discussion in the forum where there are no votes.

I understand that taking away would offend some users, but lets face it, this site for years has been just in decline, and unless something changes, I dont see how "decline" will magically be fixed.

Though one specialist website amongst a billion others will only ever draw a limited amount of dedicated users.
Yes, I am aware of that.

I just dont see the point in site being designed to punish people for using it.

Thats really not a good buisness model.
#16
Hero_In_Instatute
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@Best.Korea
isnt competition what this whole thing is about anyway?

and expert boxers fight beginners all the time as a teaching method, it's called sparring.
it's not an actual, official fight.

the debate equivalent to sparring are standard matches where elo is untouched

and the feeling that rational is describing is the thrill that comes with struggling and overcoming resistance. the only correct mindset to competition.
anything else is complacency which becomes stagnation

if i wanted easy wins, i would just stick to debating wylted or stephen or brotherdthomas



#17
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@Best.Korea
Hmmm.

I'm not certain that corrupt is a necessary description.


I would suggest that everyone has a conditioned  bias.

Which is what you went on to describe in your following statement.


I think that it is better to look upon a debate as a personal challenge.


It's the same with any competition.

Cups and trophies are just tat to be put on a shelf to gather dust.


#18
sadolite
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@Best.Korea
HA HA welcome to planet earth. Its vicious out there, better grow some thick fucking skin or you will be eaten alive.
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#19
Best.Korea
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@sadolite
True.