Women, social status, and the natural extinction of child birth

Author: Analgesic.Spectre ,

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Analgesic.Spectre
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Intuitively, we assume that as a person's social status increases, so too do their options for breeding, and thus we assume they are more likely to breed. This is somewhat true of men, but not so of women.

A study by Hopcroft (2015) found a negative correlation with personal income, intelligence and education (measures of social status) and the number of offspring a woman has. However, this study was conducted within contemporary U.S,(https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1090513814001330), but there does seem to be a worldwide pattern. If we take countries not exactly known for having high personal income, education or women's rights, such as Niger and Somalia, we can see that their fertility rates are 7.2 and 6.3, whereas the U.S. sits at 1.8, and other 1st World Countries, such as Australia and the U.K, sit at almost identical rates.

Perhaps an explanation for this is women's hypergamy. Hypergamy is a necessary tool for women, given their role in reproduction. Moreover, men can take 30 seconds to fulfil their part in sexual reproduction, whereas a woman takes 9 months to fulfil hers. Thus, since a woman's capacity to breed is far more restricted, she needs to be choosier in her partners. So, in relation to this article, as a woman increases her social status, her potential breeding partners decreases also, because she doesn't want to trade down, given her hypergamy (that would be an evolutionary bad decision). This is not to say that women are "gold diggers" (as this stupid Wikipedia article says: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypergamy), but rather they have been programmed, through evolution, to feel this way.

Another explanation, not one which is mutually exclusive to the above, is that women in poorer countries feel it necessary to breed more, given the likelihood of infant mortality. Again, to use data as illustration, Niger and Somalia have infant mortality rates of 48 and 80 per 1000, whereas the U.S., Australia and the U.K. all have infant mortality rates of under 10, and Australia has 3 (https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SP.DYN.IMRT.IN?year_high_desc=false).

Mopac
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A mother who actually takes care of her kids doesn't have to think about her career. Her career is being a good mother.
Polytheist-Witch
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Two cocks discussing hens and egg laying. Go figure. 
Analgesic.Spectre
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--> @Mopac
A mother who actually takes care of her kids doesn't have to think about her career. Her career is being a good mother.
Why do you even bother to make comments like this? Seriously, all you ever do on here is state opinions.

You're an utterly worthless user.

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--> @Polytheist-Witch
Two cocks discussing hens and egg laying. Go figure. 
Who are you writing to? What are you writing about?

Mopac
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What I said is not an opinion. Its a fact.




Analgesic.Spectre
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--> @Mopac
What I said is not an opinion. Its a fact.
What did you use to support your two sentences? Did you even attempt to prove that it was indeed a fact? Did you attempt to show it was axiomatic, and thus didn't need evidence?

You did none of those things, because you don't understand how completely incompetent you are at argument. You routinely, without deviation, post unsupported, terse opinions. The fact that you think two sentences of opinion is fact, proves how utterly insignificant your words are, and how unfit you are to pilot a Dart account.

You do not belong here. You are not welcomed here. Get the hell off my thread.

Zeichen
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@Anal

I have never met a woman so obsessed with other women and their dating habits. 

Oh right, you’re not a woman. 

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@Anal

Moreover, this thread is what constitutes “worthless”.

You are probably a middle-aged man who never even ventures outside. You know nothing of any use or value. 


Mopac
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What do you find offensive about what I said?
IlDiavolo
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Mopac is right. To women, breeding entails having less time to get educated or work, and as a consequence less chances to maintain or increase her social status. So, the higher status women have, the harder they have to work which means postpone or limit the number of children they are willing to have.

Il Diavolo
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--> @IlDiavolo
Mopac is right. To women, breeding entails having less time to get educated or work, and as a consequence less chances to maintain or increase her social status. So, the higher status women have, the harder they have to work which means postpone or limit the number of children they are willing to have.
This isn't quite what Mopac implied, but I'll address it anyway.

You're making a few assumptions, in your post:

1) That breeding and education/work are in a paradigm wherein one or the other needs to be sacrificed. Whilst this is true to some extent, in that a woman cannot be a CEO (working 14+ hours a day) and raise 6 children properly (unless the father is willing to be a stay-at-home father, of which she'll come to resent), she can certainly maintain a regular job and raise children, due to modern appliances and children's education reducing the child-rearing time significantly (albeit, this is less true in poorer countries).

2) That social status is derived entirely from her place in the workplace. Whilst social status can be derived from there, it can also be derived from her place in the community, of which doesn't necessarily have to be workforce related. For example, she could be part of a high-rollers bowling club.

So, whilst women may sacrifice entering the top echelons of the corporate ladder, she isn't sacrificing anything else to have children and a job/education. As the OP expresses, I think the extinction of child birth has more to do with lower mortality rates and higher resource requirement to child rear in a 1st World country, than it does in a 3rd World country.
Mopac
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Yeah, lets just have daycare raise our children.


Raising kids is a full time + job. You can either have a good career or be a good mother. You can't do both.


That is certainly not how we are doing things. We care a little bit more for our kids than to do that. We might be poorer for it, but thankfully we have our priotlrities. 

Lord have mercy.

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--> @Mopac
[more useless opinion stated without argumentation or evidence]
>this is still happening in 2019

Mopac
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Common sense tells you that children who have 1 parent wholly deducated to raising them are better off than children who have parents who are half present because they are too busy working to give their children the attention they need.


Why are you so offended at the things I am saying?

And why do you unblock me so you can say something and then block me again so that I can't respond proper?

You don't really want to have a discussion. That is what I'm getting.

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Common sense tells you that children who have 1 parent wholly deducated to raising them are better off than children who have parents who are half present because they are too busy working to give their children the attention they need.
Oh great, the tautology of "common sense". You sure have a great repertoire of avoiding argumentation and evidence, you know, things that actually make for convincing points.

And why do you unblock me so you can say something and then block me again so that I can't respond proper?

You don't really want to have a discussion. That is what I'm getting.
Yeah, I don't want to write to you at all. But, even with you blocked (I guess you couldn't take the hint), you still manage to chime into my conversations with the same worthless opinions.

I don't want you in my threads. It's annoying that I can't prevent you from poisoning my threads with your continuous stream of unsupported opinions. You need to be deleted from this site, but since I can't do that, and since you didn't take the hint to stop posting on my threads, here is a hint that is a tiny bit easier to detect: ***fuck off***

Mopac
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There is no need for this hatred.



Mopac
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Why do you think I should be deleted? You don't think that is a bit intolerant?


What do you think you own this place? I post a thread and a legion of haters derails it, but you are somehow exempt from this?

Who do you think you are anyway? 

Are like some kind of fascist or something? I find the idea of you working in education concerning. You clearly aren't trying to educate me. Instead you insult me and ridicule me. Hate me without a cause.


Well, I don't hate you, even if you have made yourself very ugly. I think you can do better.



Wylted
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--> @Analgesic.Spectre
Have you heard of those rat city like experiments which basically proved and predicred what you are saying? Declining birth rates, increased homosexuality and mothers being more distant from thei children
Analgesic.Spectre
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Yes, I actually was reading about that several days ago. Obviously, people aren't rats (at least literally), but the parallels become eerily similar, the more it's studied. Both rats and us have psychologies that adapt poorly to excessive comfort. When comfort is achieved, it's like we lose our purpose or drive in life, and we suddenly become incredibly apathetic and lazy. We're designed to be motivated, not satisfied.

19 days later

disgusted
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We're designed? That's a new one.
Analgesic.Spectre
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--> @disgusted
Designed by unintelligent design (i.e. evolution).
IlDiavolo
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--> @Analgesic.Spectre
Designed by unintelligent design (i.e. evolution).

That seems to be a contradiction. It's like stating that a monkey is capable of making a work of art.
Ramshutu
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What I said is not an opinion. Its a fact.
Actually, what you said is the embodiment of a social norm. It’s a fact to you, because you a fairly large subset of social mechanisms have been ingraining this into the next generation through upbringing, media representation, marketing, legislation, business attitudes, etc.

It’s not a fact by any stretch, because quite frankly women are just as capable of being good mothers and have a career as it is for men to be good fathers and have a career.


Mopac
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A child who is raised by one parent is an orphan.

They are at a disadvantage. 1 good parent is not going to fill all the roles 2 good parents can do.