Women, social status, and the natural extinction of child birth

Author: Analgesic.Spectre

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#31
Ramshutu
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@Mopac
I don't see you making an effort to clarify.

Clarify what - that your initial point and your current point are not the same? Why does that need clarification? 

Why are you not clarifying why you feel they are the same - when you’re the only one that knows why you think that’s the case?
#32
Mopac
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@Ramshutu
Being a good mother certainly is a full time job. I don't see what is so controversial about this. A mother should be focused on her kids, not a career that will undoubtedly conflict with this.
#33
Polytheist-Witch
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@Mopac
Obviously we see you have mommy issues. 

#34
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@Polytheist-Witch
Why, because I'm telling the truth and you want to hear something that justifies your perverted viewpoint?



#35
Ramshutu
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@Mopac
Here are the implicit assumptions - based on your own cultural bias - and are not facts by any means, just a product of your own biases:

- That it’s solely the mothers job to be focused on her children, and not the fathers.
- That Fathers are not capable of caring for children, or providing equivalent nurture and care as a woman.
- That care from a family group is solely mother and father, that social groups, grandparents and other family members - or associated surrogates are incapable of providing sufficient care.
- That mother’s have a moral obligation to dedicate themselves full time to their children, but not fathers.
- That the burden of choice between childcare and career is only something that falls on the mother.

None of these are facts, just products of your own social and cultural biases. If any one of them were considered differently - you’re nonsense argument falls apart.






#36
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@Mopac
I don't need to hear from misogynists on what women need. 
#37
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@Ramshutu
You are actually arguing that women should have careers and that fathers should stay at home with their kids.

Ok, yeah, maybe with the right hormone treatment fathers can even breastfeed their kids.

If you want to advocate the emasculation position, I won't stop you. But you are wrong about several of your assumptions as to what I believe.

I won't bother addressing them though, because the real point here is that you have no dignity. 

#38
Ramshutu
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@Mopac
The only point you made here is that fathers cannot breastfeed - they can bottle feed, and breast pumps exist, so if that’s the only argument you have - it’s a pretty poor reason.


The rest of your non-response is clearly pathetic.

Your entire position is based absolutely on all those ridiculous assumptions, and your whole response seems predicated on a 19th century view of women as baby factories.

The fact that you have no argument here pretty much tells everyone that what you’re saying is not a fact, it’s your own backward opinion based on your own insufficiencies and inadequacies as both a man, and as a human being in general.


#39
Mopac
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@Polytheist-Witch
For all you or anyone know around here, I'm a woman. 


I wonder what you would accuse me of being if I thought this way and you knew I was a woman?

I am sure you would find some other names to call me.




#40
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@Mopac
Then you are traitor and a pig.


#41
Mopac
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@Ramshutu
19th century?

Try nearly all of human history.


#42
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@Polytheist-Witch
Says the witch.



#43
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@Mopac
Says a bigot woman hating pig. 
#44
Mopac
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There was a time when men were expected to not be bitches. I guess those days are long gone.



#45
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@Polytheist-Witch
I actually love women, which is why I want every little girl to be raised by their mother and father and to have a good strong mother as a role model.

It takes real strength to be a good mother. It is a full time job, and there is nothing shameful about it.
A stay at home father? Is a laughing stock and a disgrace. All men know it. Hell, most women know it.


#46
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@Mopac
My husband works nights to be home for our children during the day. Last thing anyone would call him is a bitch. He is a man raising his kids with his wife. Not my fault your a shitty dad pig. 
#47
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@Polytheist-Witch
I would not call your husband a bad father for working to support his family, and spending time with his kids.



Duh
#48
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@Mopac
But a women doing it is evil. Fucking pig. 
#49
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@Polytheist-Witch
There is a difference between having a job and having a career.



#50
Ramshutu
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@Mopac
Yeah. As I said - all your opinion. And a terrible, misogynistic 19t century opinion at that.

The idea that caring for your children is emasculating is merely down to your own cultural bias. It’s the result of simply being taught that this is true. You have no objective reason to believe this is true.

The same goes for the idea that it’s only the woman’s role to care for children. This is simply based on you having been taught that this is true, by misogynistic and biased individuals and society. You have no objective reason to believe that either.



If you’re not willing, or not capable of looking after your own children, that’s on you; don’t force your own insecurities on men as a whole. If you feel that your career and position in life takes priority over your wife or partners, then again - that’s on you, just because you’re own self centered opinions put your own needs over your partner - don’t force that on everyone else.


Maybe your position is based on these same insufficiency of your own father - not showing you how to be comfortable being a man and a decent loving caring father: leaving you with a twisted and misogynistic personality, that you’re unfortunately probably going to pass on to your children too - that’s how this sort of cultural bias works, it self propagates.
#51
Mopac
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@Ramshutu
Look at the armchair psychoanalyst go.


You must be having a blast constructing this image of me in your head. Funny how the multitude of your assumptions manages to undermine your accusations of me.

Go on, make me some kind of strawman characterization of what I must be to hold the opinions that I do.


Forget about nature, we live in 2019. Anything goes! Be what you want to be!


And when your perverse society collapses in on itself, you know who is going to be better off? The ones who didn't try to swap the roles of men and women. When shit hits the fan, you delusional idealists are going to remember why the natural order of things is not to be messed with. 

If not, don't be surprised if the barbarians snatch your wife for being all out in the open doing what their husband should have been doing for them. 









#52
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@Mopac
Whatever pig. 

#53
Mopac
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Oddly enough, no one ever accuses anyone of hating men for saying they have a role.

What is all this rooted in? 

The low opinion these feminist idiots have of being a mother. Shame on all of you, you are the real woman haters.


#54
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@Mopac
Go smack your wife in case she thinks about having a life of her own and being a mother. Pig. 
#55
Ramshutu
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@Mopac
So no actual argument? No justification for any claims?


Thought so.


I accept your concession that your position is your opinion, and you are unable to justify it




#56
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@Ramshutu
The justification is that this is how it has beem throughout all of history. It is what nature dictates.

Your justification for your opinion is that it doesn't match your personal sense of aesthetics.

You are actually the one with the arbitrary viewpoint, not me.


#57
Ramshutu
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@Mopac
It’s fine, I accept your inability to give me a good reason as a concession.

”that’s the way it’s always been done”, as well as being untrue, and largely ethnocentric (with other cultures throughout history not working this way), is it a valid reason for doing very much of anything.

Its your opinion, you can’t justify it, so your throwing out lazy claims and assorted nonsense.


Its what nature dictates?

Nature also dictates we can’t fly, drive, staff infections should be nominally fatal, that marriage should last about 5-8 years and you shouldn’t eat anything more processed than being naturally farmed and cooked. 

No. Kids just need love and care, they dont care whether that comes from mum or dad. 



#58
Mopac
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@Ramshutu
You take it as a concession because you are arrogant.

And no one said anything about dad not loving their kids except you, presumably because you're an asshole.

#59
Mopac
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Apparently, going out to make bread for the family is not loving your kids.


Apparently, being steward of the home is not an honorable position for a woman to have, even though despite Ramshutu's bogus claims to the contrary, has always been the norm.

A few isolated examples of the contrary does not change this. Biology dictates these roles quite naturally. Women give birth to children and nurse them. Men are stronger than women. They toil. Not to undermine the toil that a mother does at the home!

And really, why take that honor away from women?

Envy on both sides. That is what it looks like.








#60
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@Mopac
Right only mothers don't love their kids.pig