Atheist only thread.

Author: keithprosser

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#91
3RU7AL
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@keithprosser
People are at their most reliable shortly after being slammed into the ground from 2000 feet.  I'm surprised major head trauma isn't compulsory for witnesses in murder trials.
At least he didn't say, "an angel with a flaming sword threatened to kill me, but luckily my talking donkey saved my life!!"

What I liked about it was that everyone who interviews this guy seems to think he just "proved the Jesus", but nothing he says has anything at all to do with Christian theology.
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#92
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@Outplayz
I'd hope the pictures you go to court with are a bit clearer!

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#93
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@3RU7AL
I suppose the idea us that if some of the bible is true it gives a bit more credibility to the rest.   But it's rather like saying because there is a Baker Street(*) in London Sherlock Holmes must be real.


(*There is, but no 221b, apparently.)


#94
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@keithprosser
I suppose the idea us that if some of the bible is true it gives a bit more credibility to the rest.  
I don't believe the Christian teachings are any more "true" than any potentially competing stories.

But it's rather like saying because there is a Baker Street(*) in London Sherlock Holmes must be real.
(*There is, but no 221b, apparently.)
Great example.
#95
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@3RU7AL
NDE's are definitely interesting. I watched some experts that study it talk about some crazy stuff people have done. Like seeing what the surgeons did or talked about when the person was out. I think they are pretty compelling. Although of course who knows. It could be a rush of DMT when the person is coming back too. But, the people that study it have also sorta ruled DMT out bc of the differences in experience. So who knows what could be the cause. I personally presently think the best platform that can account for all spiritual experiences including NDE's is an infinite consciousness type platform. It's called non-duality, oneness, etc. Bc that would make sense of variations in experiences and the feeling of oneness. 

The one thing i obviously don't like about the video is that he is jumping to conclusions. "It must be the Biblical god." There is nothing in his experience that definitively points to a Christian god. You addressed this in your other post and i agree with that sentiment. We don't know what platform can make these things true. We can only speculate and try to logically make sense of which platforms are the best and not. I think experiences, philosophy, and even science right now is going the direction of a non-dual platform, but it could be anything. In any case, NDE's are an interesting phenomena to consider.

There is a lot of anecdotal evidence to consider. There is strong evidence, the brain dying, that death is the end. But i would say there is also strong weak evidence that death isn't the end. Taking both into consideration i think the only logical stance at this point in history is to be agnostic. Sure you can lean a little more towards the agnostic atheist side, or like me, agnostic spiritual... but really, there is no evidence against why we shouldn't suspect an afterlife or some kind of extra dimensional reality we aren't aware of. 

Did you read the Yahoo story? What did you think of that? I thought it's the best apparition story i've seen. Usually i'm very skeptical of claims that are made into stories bc i think the person is out to gain fame or money, but this one just doesn't fit that bc i doubt the mom would lie about her dead son. Furthermore, it was the best comment section i've seen in regards to spiritual experiences. Usually you have to search through the comment section to find these stories. This was back to back. Wouldn't you say the stories are compelling evidence to suspect something is going on?

#96
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@keithprosser
They most definitely are, and there is more than one picture usually... but i thought that picture in the story was clear enough to at least think to consider it. I'm not going to say it was wrong or fake just bc that's what i'm suppose to say to maintain i'm a skeptic. But if you don't think any of that stands for evidence... then, i don't know... we're just different, and i think you're wrong and you probably think the same of me. I don't have any proof to give you, and you don't have any good reason for me to doubt what i think... so, that's a stale mate man. 
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#97
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@Outplayz
It's filed in my 'very weak evidence' folder.   It's a very thick folder but i think that says more about people than about ghosts.
#98
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Did you read the Yahoo story? What did you think of that? I thought it's the best apparition story i've seen. Usually i'm very skeptical of claims that are made into stories bc i think the person is out to gain fame or money, but this one just doesn't fit that bc i doubt the mom would lie about her dead son. Furthermore, it was the best comment section i've seen in regards to spiritual experiences. Usually you have to search through the comment section to find these stories. This was back to back. Wouldn't you say the stories are compelling evidence to suspect something is going on?
Eh, I looked at the photo, and it seems fakey to me.

People have experiences and I believe they are sincere, but they are only "evidence" to them.

I need to "see it for myself" and I would expect everyone else to demand the same.

This one was quite compelling as well - this guy was left for dead on a remote mountain range - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UO_uK33aQY8
#99
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@keithprosser
It's filed in my 'very weak evidence' folder.   It's a very thick folder but i think that says more about people than about ghosts.
That's fair. I wouldn't say it's in my "very" weak evidence since i've personally experienced. But even then, it's still in a weak evidence folder for me too.

#100
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@3RU7AL
I need to "see it for myself" and I would expect everyone else to demand the same.
What would you consider to be compelling if you saw it for yourself? 


This one was quite compelling as well - this guy was left for dead on a remote mountain range - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UO_uK33aQY8
That's only compelling of a hell. Lol. 
#101
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@Outplayz
What would you consider to be compelling if you saw it for yourself? 
Maybe something like this - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGarjovMfj0

#102
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@3RU7AL
That's a funny video. "What the fuck am i doing here my back hurts" lol. But seriously, you know you can practice to achieve enlightenment right? Many people report those very feelings when enlightening... well, the last part of the video. It takes years and dedication. I've tried but gave up and had enlightenment experiences, but with drugs. I don't think that's cheating though since it's likely chemicals guru's and mystics achieve after years of trying. In any case, you can take 5 MEO DMT and experience enlightenment through practice kinda faster than naturally... so, that would really be compelling to you? I feel like you would just say it's chemicals in your brain. 
#103
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@Outplayz
What do you mean, "enlightenment experiences"?
#104
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@janesix
Specifically, i've had two experiences that would count as enlightenment experiences in the spiritual sense and a couple other mini ones under the spiritual category. I've also had this experience without drugs as well but not spiritually. The natural ones were breaking out of societal constraints. The spiritual ones influence the rest however. They are the ones that "freed my mind" ... i think that's the best way to describe it. Other than that, i'm still trying. I'm still too young to say i've reached full enlightenment. So it's an ongoing process of internal growth. 
#105
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@Outplayz
Did you learn anything from your experience?
#106
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I was clinically depressed before it. It cured my depression... at least almost all of the symptoms. I still have one of the symptoms of laziness/lack of motivation i'm working on. So, yeah... i learned quite a bit. I did learn but it was more realizations that i knew but wasn't paying attention to. It was an "ohhh" moment. It also really taught me to always be present. This is a bad thing bc i forget a lot of things, but i'm always present. I'm never/rarely in the past or the future unless i choose to be. That i feel is the biggest benefit of trying to reach this state of mind. Plus other little things like being able to see things in people it seems most miss.

Edit: Oh i should add the spiritual part is huge too. Learned a lot there as well which is another of the biggest benefits.  
#107
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@Outplayz
what spiritual things did you learn?
#108
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Well the experience itself as most describe it is oneness which i also had. I was this thing called god which is also everyone. I'm god and this experience is just one of many i've had and will have. That i'm infinite and so is everyone else. We are all this infinite consciousness experience itself. This life is an illusion of an experience we have created ourselves in having... therefore, also real. So basically, that's why i say i'm god. Bc so are you and everyone else. That's what you realize. You realize the platform is non-dual and further, when you become it... you become everyone. So anyone you hurt, you are hurting yourself. Everything you hate, you are also that which you hate. You are also everything you love. Then many mini-experience that give me a strong indication in breaking down possible implications such as the ability to individualize within this source. Bc you realize you are eternally free within the source to be you. If this platform controlled everything than it will basically continue being what it already is... so why even manifest into physical forms. I see that we individualize within it and have a choice to be whatever we want to be in order for the experience to be genuine. But that is extra stuff i'm realizing. The enlightenment experience itself begins with realizing you are what you've called god. 

A lot of people tell me i'm not truly enlightened bc i still have doubt that any of this is true. But i disagree with them. I think it is fair to say "i see it" but i also see that i can be wrong. I would say a person that can't say that isn't truly enlightened. But of course, people are throwing this phrase around carelessly recently so just like anything humans touch... it's starting to become corrupted. 
#109
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@Outplayz
A lot of people have had that experiece. Well maybe not a lot. But enough. I have had a mini experience like that. I am unsure though, if it's not just ego-inflation, which is common on spiritual paths.
#110
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@janesix
That's funny, bc i thought you are going to ask me how to do it and i was going to tell you the hardest thing to get passed is your ego. That is the hardest part that i even still catch myself doing. But, you have to become as conscious as you can of your ego to catch it and if you can, i would say your on a good path. 

Yes, people do have this experience but a lot of people can't separate their pre-conditioning or ego from it. They will say i knew Jesus is real, i knew Allah is real, i knew Buddha was right. I even did in the beginning slightly. But since i have been consciously trying to achieve it... you keep learning more and more, or realizing more and more. And those realizations keep taking you further away from your ego and pre-conditioned beliefs. So for people that just accidentally stumble upon it... i think it's fair to say they don't understand it. But everyone can experience it. Really, 5 MEO DMT a lot of the time gives you this realization. The key is breaking it down and trying to understand it while staying open and honest. It's a journey. Mystics spend their entire lives trying to understand more and more and they still say they understand nothing. Bc that's another realization you have eventually, yes you can experience it.. but it's infinite. How can you as a finite being ever grasp that?  
#111
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@Outplayz
No, i wouldnt ask how to do that 

I didn't like the mini experience i had, i don't think id ever want ot be or feel like an eternal God. That would be a night mare. 
#112
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@janesix
I didn't like the mini experience i had, i don't think id ever want ot be or feel like an eternal God. That would be a night mare.
In one of my experience it actually was pretty scary. To know everything, to be everything, to know all past, present and future. I was frightened. I held my head down, closed my eyes and hoped to anything that i would forget. Gladly when i came to i forgot. In that sense, it is very scary. But that taught me a lot. It taught me why an eternal intelligence would rather have finite experiences vs. staying as what it is. However, other experiences... although feeling fear and sadness, you switch away from that to peace and harmony. Bc it isn't only the scary stuff, it's all the good stuff too. 

But for the very reason you explained, I'm not trying to become it anymore. I'm just trying to understand all of its implications from now on and to work on myself (which could be more important than the platform). I'm done experiencing... plus, that isn't what we are suppose to be anyways. We are here to be ourselves... i realized it's kinda dumb if i keep trying to escape to it when it likely tried to escape to here.

#113
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@janesix
HOld up.

Are you an atheist?
#114
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A lot of people tell me i'm not truly enlightened bc i still have doubt that any of this is true. But i disagree with them. I think it is fair to say "i see it" but i also see that i can be wrong. I would say a person that can't say that isn't truly enlightened. But of course, people are throwing this phrase around carelessly recently so just like anything humans touch... it's starting to become corrupted. 
A man searching for enlightenment is like a man riding an ox in search of an ox.
#115
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No, im a theist (technically an agnostic)
#116
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@3RU7AL
A man searching for enlightenment is like a man riding an ox in search of an ox.
Well the idea of enlightenment has sorta been hijacked recently. Actually... i'm kinda hijacking it too bc i've given it my own definitions as i've been going along. So to everyone it could mean something a little different now. I think originally it meant you become one with the universe and some kind of source consciousness. But for me it is more of a becoming one with myself. Being able to control my thoughts, being able to see past societal deceptions, basically... improving everything about myself. Looking at myself as if i was a god that created myself here. I've actually experienced that feeling too and it has taught me a whole lot about my journey. The spiritual part i've only encountered a couple times and i don't seek it anymore bc i understand it is still just one possibility. But when they say in an enlightenment moment you just "get it" and can clearly see the platform they aren't joking. I honestly think a non-dual platform is pretty logical bc i can clearly see it working. Not only philosophically, but i think quantum sciences are also pointing towards such a platform. It's a very interesting platform to say the least. 

Btw... yeah... going through the ten ox stages of enlightenment is the fun part. I never looked up why it is "ox" stages. I think dragon stages would have sounded a lot cooler. 

 

#117
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@3RU7AL
Ok, EVERYBODY CHIME IN, on a scale of zero to 100, how much do you HATE THE BABY JESUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I see stupid religious people doing this all the time. The strategy is that you insert anger or intense emotions into the non believer (without their consent) in an effort to make them look like they give a crap because they don't. The only one that gives a crap is you dummy.

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#118
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@3RU7AL
Hello Paul.

I see stupid religious people doing this all the time. The strategy is that you insert anger or intense emotions into the non believer (without their consent) in an effort to make them look like they give a crap because they don't. The only one that gives a crap is you dummy.
I don't think you're right.

For many theists God is as obviously real as gravity or the air we breathe.  To such people we atheists are denying the undeniable.   Put another way, they see us as we see flat-earthers.

Those theists reason that atheists must have ulterior motives for their 'insane' beliefs.   Maybe, they conclude, atheists want to sin without conscience, or perhaps atheists hate god.  

What theists cannot accept is that we atheists are right there is no god.  That would be like you or I accepting the idea that the world is flat has any validity whatsoever.



#119
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@keithprosser
I'm not talking about how or what theists believe or think, I'm talking about a tactic that religious people use in arguments.

You are an atheist, do you hate the baby Jesus?

Do you know any other atheist that hate the baby Jesus?

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#120
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@Paul
I'm not talking about how or what theists believe or think, I'm talking about a tactic that religious people use in arguments.
I don't think it is just a tactic... as I said, I think it's what some theists really do think motivates atheists.   3RU's post was a lampoon because (this doesn't need saying) atheists don't hate the baby Jesus.