Hindu creation

Author: keithprosser ,

Posts

Total: 38
keithprosser
keithprosser's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 3,053
2
3
3
keithprosser's avatar
keithprosser
2
3
3
Rig Veda10 HYMN CXXIX. Creation.

6 Who verily knows and who can here declare it, whence it was born and whence comes this creation?
The Gods are later than this world's production. Who knows then whence it first came into being?
7 He, the first origin of this creation, whether he formed it all or did not form it,
Whose eye controls this world in highest heaven, he verily knows it, or perhaps he knows not.



janesix
janesix's avatar
Debates: 9
Posts: 1,893
3
3
3
janesix's avatar
janesix
3
3
3
--> @keithprosser
that's what i always say, who the fuck knows?
Mopac
Mopac's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 8,050
3
4
7
Mopac's avatar
Mopac
3
4
7
"The Gods" should be translated "The gods"

EtrnlVw
EtrnlVw's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 2,622
3
3
5
EtrnlVw's avatar
EtrnlVw
3
3
5
--> @keithprosser
I like this.... "He, the first origin of this creation"...interesting, I didn't know that term "first origin" was in their texts.
"Hindu creation", one could only hope this post was not intended to undermine the Hindus massive contribution to the spiritual arena by cherry picking a poetic passage out of thousands. Only a true knucklehead would do that so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt you had a deeper motivation here.
Here is a complete list of Hindu spiritual texts and sources. If you want juicier topics and knowledge Vedanta is good, Upanishads, Bhagavad Gita ect ect if anyone is interested.



And here is an incredible teacher of Hindu sacred texts if you want to get down and dirty and even deeper into the subjects. This guy is one of my favorite teachers, and very sincere. He can take you into the heart of their literature in meaningful ways.



keithprosser
keithprosser's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 3,053
2
3
3
keithprosser's avatar
keithprosser
2
3
3
--> @EtrnlVw
Well, I was going to post the entire corpus of hindu scripture, but I thought it might be a bit much for people to read. :)

While there certainly is a lot of sacred hindu text, not that much of it actually deals with creation.   The Rig Veda hymn quoted is considered the oldest.  i find it interesting because - unlike Abrahamic scripture - it does purport to say how creation occurred and leaves it openly mysterious even to the gods themselves.  


Mopac
Mopac's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 8,050
3
4
7
Mopac's avatar
Mopac
3
4
7
--> @keithprosser
As it would be, because gods are not God. These "gods" are created beings, while God is Uncreated, and truly The Eternally Existing One.



And nothing about God creating everything eliminates the inherent mystery of that.
keithprosser
keithprosser's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 3,053
2
3
3
keithprosser's avatar
keithprosser
2
3
3
--> @Mopac
As it would be, because gods are not God. These "gods" are created beings, while God is Uncreated, and truly The Eternally Existing One.
You are describing 'Brahman'.





Mopac
Mopac's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 8,050
3
4
7
Mopac's avatar
Mopac
3
4
7
--> @keithprosser
I have mentioned this in another topic before that the Hindu word for "God" is Brahman.

And sho 'nuff there tends to be a word or concept for God in most languages, cultures, religions, etc.


In fact, I think you will notice on that wikipedia page you listed, Brahman is understood to mean "The Ultimate Reality", something I tend to throw around a lot.
And there is even a link to a page there "The Absolute". You can see how the concept is fairly universal.


I think it is worth mentioning that there is a difference between what is said about The Ultimate Reality and what The Ultimate Reality actually IS.





keithprosser
keithprosser's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 3,053
2
3
3
keithprosser's avatar
keithprosser
2
3
3
--> @Mopac
I have mentioned this in another topic before that the Hindu word for "God" is Brahman.
They are comparable but there are major differences between the Arahamic God and Brahman.

Mopac
Mopac's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 8,050
3
4
7
Mopac's avatar
Mopac
3
4
7
--> @keithprosser
No, there are major differences between the Hindu religions and Christianity.
Outplayz
Outplayz's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 2,153
2
3
4
Outplayz's avatar
Outplayz
2
3
4
--> @Mopac
Certain Hindu and Buddhist teachings are the best religions in my opinion. However, in the end of the day, they are still religions written by humans therefore flawed. 
Mopac
Mopac's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 8,050
3
4
7
Mopac's avatar
Mopac
3
4
7
--> @Outplayz
That is a very common justification for spiritual egotism.
Outplayz
Outplayz's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 2,153
2
3
4
Outplayz's avatar
Outplayz
2
3
4
--> @Mopac
It's funny how many times the adage that you are guilty for what you see in others is right. 
Mopac
Mopac's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 8,050
3
4
7
Mopac's avatar
Mopac
3
4
7
--> @Outplayz


A wise man I take council from has often said, "There are two types of Christians. Those who struggle with pride issues, and those who are in denial about struggling with pride issues."

Outplayz
Outplayz's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 2,153
2
3
4
Outplayz's avatar
Outplayz
2
3
4
--> @Mopac
He isn't very wise if he can't see that example is black and white. That's not how the world works. You might think you are struggling with your pride but at the same time not aware or in denial of struggling with what i would call your pride that you aren't aware of. Understanding that you are in denial of / not aware of this pride is self actualizing 101. 
Mopac
Mopac's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 8,050
3
4
7
Mopac's avatar
Mopac
3
4
7
--> @Outplayz
You should take up stand up comedy. All the best gurus are comedians.

Outplayz
Outplayz's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 2,153
2
3
4
Outplayz's avatar
Outplayz
2
3
4
--> @Mopac
Good, i'm killing two birds with one stone... maybe you could put her on to define things... In any case, getting the mental picture of you two hunched over a computer laughing at a random comments is pretty funny too. I'm imagining a grandma grandpa thing... "no no no let me type let me" Lol. 
Outplayz
Outplayz's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 2,153
2
3
4
Outplayz's avatar
Outplayz
2
3
4
--> @Mopac
Oh... why'd you change that comment... that was a pretty funny image. Plus, it was a little romantic, i could give respect for that. Now i'm thinking you don't even have a spouse...  
Mopac
Mopac's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 8,050
3
4
7
Mopac's avatar
Mopac
3
4
7
--> @Outplayz
I thought what you said was ridiculous and lacking self awareness so I read it to my spouse. We both did laugh, but I changed my mind about mentioning that in my post. Oh well. I guess I didn't edit fast enough.


Good show.

Mopac
Mopac's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 8,050
3
4
7
Mopac's avatar
Mopac
3
4
7
--> @keithprosser
Not missing much. I said something along the lines of "Congratulations, you managed to make both me and my spouse laugh"

Didn't edit fast enough.



Outplayz
Outplayz's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 2,153
2
3
4
Outplayz's avatar
Outplayz
2
3
4
--> @Mopac
In what way does saying you have to be careful of the parts of yourself that you don't notice lack self awareness? One of the first steps in self actualizing is understanding the parts of yourself that others see and you don't. Hence, you are struggling with those parts and partly in denial until you understand them. If you think that lacks self awareness then you are really sticking fast to the adage... and so is your wife. 
keithprosser
keithprosser's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 3,053
2
3
3
keithprosser's avatar
keithprosser
2
3
3
--> @Mopac
I know that NOW!

That must be a new sort of fallacy - "it can't be true because it made my wife laugh'.   I'd call it  'ad spousum'.


keithprosser
keithprosser's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 3,053
2
3
3
keithprosser's avatar
keithprosser
2
3
3
--> @Outplayz
In what way does saying you have to be careful of the parts of yourself that you don't notice lack self awareness? One of the first steps in self actualizing is understanding the parts of yourself that others see and you don't. Hence, you are struggling with those parts and partly in denial until you understand them. If you think that lacks self awareness then you are really sticking fast to the adage... and so is your wife. 
That's more than enough about mopac's parts and those of his wife.  There are parts of both i have no interest in being aware of.

Mopac
Mopac's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 8,050
3
4
7
Mopac's avatar
Mopac
3
4
7
--> @keithprosser
I wasn't making an argument, so you accusing me of making a logical fallacy is rather silly.
Outplayz
Outplayz's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 2,153
2
3
4
Outplayz's avatar
Outplayz
2
3
4
--> @keithprosser
I initially just thought it's super cute. Both of them all cuddled up in bed putting us heretics in their place... but you just ruined it dammit!!