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@Stephen
I actually ask questions that the answers to which are incredibly insightful to the knowledge of the respondants. You are a prime example.Keep it up, I enjoy getting the responses I've already determined will be elicited.
Does Humanity Need A God Story?
Posts
Total:
182
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@Stephen
"(as if he has any say in what constitutes a Christian)"
Not my claim little godist. Do try to keep up, there's a good thing.
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@vagabond
I actually ask questions that the answers to which are incredibly insightful to the knowledge of the respondants.
I see. So you ask questions in a derogatory fashion because you don't have any answers of your own to offer your avid readers.
You are a prime example.
I am!? is that good or bad to ask you to explain your opinions or ask you for evidence of your claims. I have made no claims to have to supply any evidence. But you on the other hand, have spouted a lot of stuff without a single attempt at an explanation for your claims.
Keep it up,
I will.
I enjoy getting the responses I've already determined will be elicited.
"I've already determined will be elicited".
You have!? WOW! you're are a bit of an oracle on the sly aren't? You you crafty little rascal you.
Now, how about some fully supported evidence for all of you claims, sunshine, got any . I didn't think so.
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@Stephen
Thank you. Alls good with the world except for the stupidity of god belief. Keep your fantasies alive.
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@vagabond
Alls good with the world
Whatever makes you say that. The world is in a mess and no god to sort it out. Deary me, you have no idea about what's going on do you, but spout a lot as if you are a man of the world, when in reality, (that'll be the reality you keep spouting about) , you don't know jack" do you?
except for the stupidity of god belief. Keep your fantasies alive.
I agree, a belief in such a thing - has, can, will, does, and still does cause great harm. But screaming from you cot isn't going to sort anything now is it. Now. how about this evidence for all your claims. Or are you just spouting crap for attention.
You say the bible is lies, but not all lies, which parts are not lies to you? Come on , be brave, face your critics like a good mummy's little soldier.
Try the donkey bray. You can't get banned for that can you?
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@Smithereens
Sure... i am not talking about how many people are religious. But spirituality isn't just dying off for a reason. People experience it, therefore wonder about it. I am talking about how it was made... and/or why people thought up these stories. Spiritual experiences are a big part of that. And as much as other's hate it... it is evidence.
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@vagabond
I wonder can you define what constitutes a christian?
I think it's up for debate.
From purely a personal experience basis, I've heard a lot of Christians say that mere belief in Jesus is enough to be considered a Christian, and some say that's enough to get into Heaven, too.
Expanding into armchair research, this popular article says that, "If you believe in Jesus and try to follow him, you’re a Christian" (http://www.patheos.com/blogs/revangelical/2014/09/06/what-makes-someone-a-christian.html).
This site reckons that, "A true Christian is a person who has put faith and trust in the person and work of Jesus Christ, including His death on the cross as payment for sins and His resurrection on the third day" (https://www.gotquestions.org/what-is-a-Christian.html).
This source says that, "the word literally means "little Christ" signifying that one is like Christ" (https://www.nuverb.com/christian.html).
Finally, this article says that, "According to the Bible, there is only one thing that makes a person a Christian, and that is faith in Jesus Christ", but then goes on to say that defining what constitutes faith is difficult (http://www.blogos.org/organicfruit/what-makes-a-christian-a-christian.php).
So, after doing some quick research and combining my personal experience, I can conclude that belief in Jesus is basically what constitutes a Christian. It's more debatable that in order to be considered a Christian, a person needs to believe in Jesus' resurrection, be like Jesus himself and follow the Bible (as to what degree seems to vary). I don't think anyone, besides know-it-all Smithereens, would suggest that being a Christian is contingent on your Church attendance.
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@Analgesic.Spectre
Belief in Jesus as what?
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@Outplayz
I don't know enough about spiritual experiences to comment. I've never had one myself but do you suggest that the propagation of religion came from these experiences?
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@Smithereens
The formation/invention of religion/spirituality i'm saying came from spiritual experiences. The propagation of it came by luck and conquest. The Christian faith got lucky that it was the main religion of an army that was very powerful with wide ranging reach. The spreading of religion is something different.
The creation of religion/spirituality is something different. The creation of it is from spiritual experiences. In all of its forms and definitions btw... not just seeing spirits or ghosts; although that would really make one think. But also things like seeing flowers bloom and the sun getting blocked out by the sun when one is asking/thinking for some relief from the heat... these also count as spiritual experiences, which is probably why animism is among the first type of spiritual beliefs.
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@Outplayz
That's an interesting view, but consider that most religious experiences involve an experience that conform to what the person already believes. I read one study where a bunch of devout Mormons were put in fMRI and brain areas implicated in religious experience were artificially stimulated. Religious experiences were produced but they were all sensations of God or things that Mormons already believe in. I think you have to be highly receptive to religion in order to get a religious experience.
In some contexts what consitutes a Christian is which box is ticked on a survey form.
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@keithprosser
Very true in Aus. Many of the christians I know are agnostic, and don't know or care about the existence of God. Conversely, I have atheist friends who attend church for no other reason than the social aspect.
I think religion is dying.
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@keithprosser
You're using the avatar I picked for you! But why the orange cap?
I feel more dunce-like than guru-like... and I'm sure Ethang agrees!
I was going to use my purple rectangle - but I'll stick with this now.
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@EtrnlVw
Non sequitur, you come from the very Source where all truth and knowledge originate. What I mean by "perfectly" is the same as what I told you before, that there is no cap on what we can learn, know or experience other than what limitations we place on those things. What you may not know now, you may acquire later. The very fundamental things of life and our nature are things that are not out of reach.....you have conscious awareness, you have a mind and a brain, how are you NOT designed perfectly to know whatever it is you wish to understand? what other tool would you need?
Well, I guess the problem is that I'm a materialist. Uh, not a "shiny things are all that matters" materialist. A "nothing exists except the physical universe" materialist.
I know, I know, materialists bug the crap out of you. 😄 I know we must seem really short-sighted and myopic to you. But if it matters, I don't really want there to be only the material universe. I want there to be more. I've always wanted there to be more, since I was a small child. But I made myself accept that reality just isn't about what I want.
Since I believe that all I am is my mind -- my brain -- then I also believe that there are limits to what I can learn and know. My brain just isn't capable of limitless knowledge. That's why it inevitably forgets things. That's why there are things it simply cannot comprehend.
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@ethang5
Certainly not reality. I'm sorry.
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@Stephen
You may realise that you don't understand the questions I pose. That is patently obvious by your claim that I make unsupported claims. Here is your chance to present these claims you claim I make and we can discuss them. The fact is that you are lying and can't even come close to defending your lies.
Are god stories inevitable? I believe so.
Are they necessary? I don't understand the question. Necessary for what?
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@drafterman
Whyvdo you think they are inevitable?
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@ethang5
Because I think human beings are predisposed to finding patterns in randomness, meaning in meaninglessness, in superstition and coming up with grand dramas to justify those irrational beliefs.
After all, human beings naturally came up with god concepts to begin with, and I don't see that our fundamental nature has changed to suggest that we won't continue to do so.
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@drafterman
Two questions then.
Because I think human beings are predisposed to finding patterns in randomness, meaning in meaninglessness, in superstition and coming up with grand dramas to justify those irrational beliefs.
Why would virtually every culture come up with the same thing?
After all, human beings naturally came up with god concepts to begin with, and I don't see that our fundamental nature has changed to suggest that we won't continue to do so.
Is a God concept in our fundamental nature?
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@ethang5
Come up with exactly the same thing? They didn't.Why would virtually every culture come up with the same thing?
Come up with generally the same thing? Because every culture is made up of humans and all humans are predisposed to this behavior. I would find it remarkable if there was a culture that didn't come up with some form of deistic belief.
Is a God concept in our fundamental nature?
I interpret capital "G" God as the Christian God, to which I say no. If you mean simply any generic god-concept, to include vague spiritualistic concepts as animism and ancestral worship, or a general belief in the supernatural and spiritual, I say yes.
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@Smithereens
I think you have a point. But, personally.. i am a contradiction to that. I was atheist until a couple profound experiences have changed my views. I am far from religious... but, bc of these experiences, i have imagined a spiritual platform that can explain them. I became spiritual due to experience(s). I doubt i am the only one too. But i get what you are saying too... if people are religious minded they will probably have more experiences or prone to them. However, in the very beginning when no one was religious or had a spiritual view... i imagine spiritual experiences are what started the speculations.
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@Outplayz
Well I find that genuinely interesting. If you don't mind sharing, what was your experience like?
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@drafterman
What do you mean by, "in our fundamental nature"? Could you mean genetic? Why is it in our nature?Is a God concept in our fundamental nature?If you mean simply any generic god-concept, to include vague spiritualistic concepts as animism and ancestral worship, or a general belief in the supernatural and spiritual, I say yes.
Do you know of any other generic concept in our fundamental nature, that does not exist in reality?
What do you mean by, "in our fundamental nature"? Could you mean genetic? Why is it in our nature?
You brought up the phrase "fundamental nature" to which I interpret to mean in the generic sense of it being a basic and core component of our being. If you mean something else by this phrase, you will have to supply the definition.
I believe it is in our natural because of our psychology, which is rooted in biology, which is rooted in genetics, yes. It exists because evolution favors a mind that is predisposed towards recognizing false patterns over failing to recognize true ones. This is a trade off with any pattern recognition machine.
Do you know of any other generic concept in our fundamental nature, that does not exist in reality?
All superstitious believes ever invented by man. All abstract thoughts.
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@ethang5
Because they are all human.Why would virtually every culture come up with the same thing?
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@Smithereens
Okay... they are stories however so brace yourself. You have to know the full context because how they happened and/or the road to it is what makes these experiences interesting.
I have had 4 experiences, one i never tell anyone, the others i go over 2 of them since that will be a lot of content already.
The year before this event i was having reoccurring (4) dreams. Not nightmares but annoying. In these dreams i was in Vegas looking for something. I didn't know what i was looking for, but i was intent on getting it or finding it. Annoyingly, before i could find out i woke up. At the end of the year, a group of friends told me they are getting a tour bus to go to Vegas and if i wanted to go. In every other case i would have said no. I'm introvert and i hate group stuff like that... especially with people i don't know. But, bc of the dreams... i thought, darn... i'm curious of the dreams so i'll go.
A little back story i have only had reoccurring dreams twice. This time, and one before which interestingly also lead to one of the four experiences i've had. That is why i agreed to go... i thought maybe i'll have a 3 some or something... i was thinking sex mainly lol.
The first night we got to Vegas we partied. I took E, i'll get that out of the way. It was the end of the night and i was back to normal. I took a xanax to help me sleep. We were in another room and all the sudden i just got very bad vibes. Not normal of me but i felt scared for some reason. My friend ran up to me and said we need to go back to our room. I got to the room and one friend was crying. I asked what is going on, and one of my other friends was in the bathroom with blood on the ground. He was cringing and looked like he was in pain. I was like what the hell? And, they didn't know what to do and were kinda drunk. I was fully sober at this point and sorta come bc of the xanax. They said we can't take him to the hospital bc they were messed up. The friend throwing up blood was doing so every 3 minutes or so.
As soon as my friends said call hotel doctors up... something hit me. At the same exact time the feeling hit me i heard a "female" voice say, "tell everyone to leave you could heal him." I got a little freaked out bc that is the first time i've ever heard a voice. The hotel doctors were on their way so i didn't say anything... but i still had that feeling that hit me. It felt like my body was "fuzzy" mixed with "electric." The hotel docs got up and saw my friend throw up twice and said we need to take him now... at which point i told everyone to leave i will take him. I don't think the hotel people were doctors so they left too. I'm still curious why they didn't do more bc it was clearly blood he was throwing up.
So the hotel people left and so did everyone else. I sat down and watched him. Cringing in pain and he threw up blood. I thought come on... 'heal him' ... what is going on. He threw up again. I was losing any faith i could heal him... now way right? I thought if this doesn't work i gotta go. So i thought to put my hands on his head. I put my hand on his head, that fuzzy feeling literally felt like it drained from me to him. As soon as the last of the feeling left my fingers, he went from looking like death, to pulling up the sheet we had on him, sigh of relief, to smiling. I was like WTF. No way. I sat and watched him a little more... he looked good. I nudged him and asked him how are you... he was able to answer, which he was unresponsive before, that he is fine and feels good.
You can imagine, giving all the events... the percentage of coincidences is winning the lottery status. Plus, i later realized that my other experience with the recurring dreams... i got hit with the same "fuzzy" feeling but in that case i healed myself. I was blown away in thought the rest of the time. Of course it can all be coincidence, but holy sheet.