Sunday School: Day 1

Author: CatholicApologetics
Jesus
Christianity
Religion
Catholicism
Sunday School

Posts

Total: 139
#91
Shila
Shila's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 5,224
3
3
5
Shila's avatar
Shila
3
3
5
Can John the Baptist be trusted.
First John called Jesus only Son of God and God himself.
In John 1: 17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. 18 No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and[b] is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.

But shortly after began to question if Jesus was even the Messiah.
Matthew 11:2 When John, who was in prison, heard about the deeds of the Messiah, he sent his disciples3 to ask him, “Are you the one who is to come, or should we expect someone else?”

#92
DavidAZZ
DavidAZZ's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 394
2
2
5
DavidAZZ's avatar
DavidAZZ
2
2
5
-->
@Stephen
You are quite good at telling what Jesus' baptism was not about, (although the bible does tell us) but fail at every turn to tell us what Jesus' baptism   was,  actually about.  
I never claimed I knew it all but the scripture was plain that Jesus was sinless and therefore, did not have a need of a repentance baptism.  Unless you have an ace up your sleeve, which I would like to see, that tells otherwise.
#93
Shila
Shila's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 5,224
3
3
5
Shila's avatar
Shila
3
3
5
-->
@DavidAZZ
I never claimed I knew it all but the scripture was plain that Jesus was sinless and therefore, did not have a need of a repentance baptism.  Unless you have an ace up your sleeve, which I would like to see, that tells otherwise.

But because Jesus was crucified as a criminal . The sacrificial ceremony (repentance baptism) was skipped. The last bodily wash was at his baptism which was 3 years ago.

Did Jesus ever baptize anyone in the Bible?
After this, the Apostle John wrote in John 3:22 that Jesus baptized. However, he corrected himself in John 4:2 to say that Jesus didn't baptize, but his disciples did. So, these verses indicate that Jesus taught his disciples how to baptize, but he didn't baptize anyone himself.

Why? Because Jesus didn’t want to get wet again. He showed his fear of getting wet again when he walked on water.
Jesus came to join His disciples. He was walking on the water to get to the boat. Matthew 14:25. disciples watching Jesus from the shore.


#94
DavidAZZ
DavidAZZ's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 394
2
2
5
DavidAZZ's avatar
DavidAZZ
2
2
5
-->
@Shila
Why? Because Jesus didn’t want to get wet again. He showed his fear of getting wet again when he walked on water.
That is funny.  Never saw it that way.

#95
Shila
Shila's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 5,224
3
3
5
Shila's avatar
Shila
3
3
5
-->
@DavidAZZ
Why? Because Jesus didn’t want to get wet again. He showed his fear of getting wet again when he walked on water.

That is funny.  Never saw it that 
But because Jesus was crucified as a criminal . The sacrificial ceremony (repentance baptism) was skipped. The last bodily wash was at his baptism which was 3 years ago.

Did Jesus ever baptize anyone in the Bible?
After this, the Apostle John wrote in John 3:22 that Jesus baptized. However, he corrected himself in John 4:2 to say that Jesus didn't baptize, but his disciples did. So, these verses indicate that Jesus taught his disciples how to baptize, but he didn't baptize anyone himself.

Why? Because Jesus didn’t want to get wet again. He showed his fear of getting wet again when he walked on water.
Jesus came to join His disciples. He was walking on the water to get to the boat. Matthew 14:25. disciples watching Jesus from the shore.

Jesus lied to Mary when she wanted to touch him. How could she touch him after he ascended to heaven?. Was it because he last washed during his baptism 3 years ago?

Why wasn't Mary allowed to touch Jesus?
He emphatically told her that she could not touch him because He had not yet ascended to his Father (vs. 17)



#96
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,744
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
-->
@DavidAZZ
You are quite good at telling what Jesus' baptism was not about, (although the bible does tell us) but fail at every turn to tell us what Jesus' baptism   was,  actually about.  
I never claimed I knew it all but the scripture was plain that Jesus was sinless

But you have . You have told us that Jesus was not baptised to wash away his sins - which, according to the bible is exactly the reason for the rite of Baptism.. You have also told us that Jesus was not baptised for reasons of repentance. 



and therefore,did not have a need of a repentance baptism. 

You see! you are saying it again!

Unless you have an ace up your sleeve, which I would like to see, that tells otherwise.

I don't have to. The Bible on quite a few occasions makes it clear the reason for baptism .  You just cannot accept that this baptismal rite also applied to Jesus for exactly the same reason as for anyone else. So you have been  trying to rewrite the bible with maybe's and guesses because you have no answers. 
I can accept that you don't have an answer to my question- well not a straight answer.
Just read this transcript of your attempts  at trying to get around this little, very genuine biblical dilemma.



#97
Shila
Shila's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 5,224
3
3
5
Shila's avatar
Shila
3
3
5
But you have . You have told us that Jesus was not baptised to wash away his sins - which, according to the bible is exactly the reason for the rite of Baptism.. You have also told us that Jesus was not baptised for reasons of repentance.
Was Jesus baptized by John?
The baptism of Jesus (Matthew 3:13-17) - The identity of ...
Jesus came to John the Baptist. while he was baptising people in the River Jordan. John tried to make him change his mind, but Jesus answered, “In this way we will do all that God requires.” So John agreed. As soon

John also saw the Holy Spirit descend on Jesus. So Jesus needed more than a bodily wash for his sins.

John 1:32 Then John said, “I saw the Holy Spirit come down on Jesus as a dove from heaven. The Holy Spirit stayed on Him. 33 I did not know Him then. But God sent me to baptize with water. God said to me, ‘The Holy Spirit will come down and stay on Him. He is the One Who baptizes with the Holy Spirit.’ 34 I saw this happen. I am now saying that Jesus is the Son of God.”

Did Jesus ever baptize anyone in the Bible?
After this, the Apostle John wrote in John 3:22 that Jesus baptized. However, he corrected himself in John 4:2 to say that Jesus didn't baptize, but his disciples did. So, these verses indicate that Jesus taught his disciples how to baptize, but he didn't baptize anyone himself.

Why? Because Jesus didn’t want to get wet again. He showed his fear of getting wet again when he walked on water.
Jesus came to join His disciples. He was walking on the water to get to the boat. Matthew 14:25. disciples watching Jesus from the shore.


#98
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,744
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
-->
@Shila
Was Jesus baptized by John?
The baptism of Jesus (Matthew 3:13-17) - The identity of ...
Jesus came to John the Baptist. while he was baptising people in the River Jordan. John tried to make him change his mind, but Jesus answered, “In this way we will do all that God requires.” So John agreed.

Yes this was the confrontation that I  mentioned above and which believe a baptism John was forced to perform on his rival, Jesus. 



John 1:32 Then John said, “I saw the Holy Spirit come down on Jesus as a dove from heaven. The Holy Spirit stayed on Him. 33 I did not know Him then. But God sent me to baptize with water. God said to me, ‘The Holy Spirit will come down and stay on Him. He is the One Who baptizes with the Holy Spirit.’ 34 I saw this happen. I am now saying that Jesus is the Son of God.”

But no mention of Jesus baptising John " the greatest prophet that ever lived" with the holy spirit is there?



#99
Shila
Shila's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 5,224
3
3
5
Shila's avatar
Shila
3
3
5
But no mention of Jesus baptising John " the greatest prophet that ever lived" with the holy spirit is there?


Did Jesus ever baptize anyone in the Bible?
After this, the Apostle John wrote in John 3:22 that Jesus baptized. However, he corrected himself in John 4:2 to say that Jesus didn't baptize, but his disciples did. So, these verses indicate that Jesus taught his disciples how to baptize, but he didn't baptize anyone himself.

Why? Because Jesus didn’t want to get wet again. He showed his fear of getting wet again after his baptism when he walked on water instead of swimming.
Jesus came to join His disciples. He was walking on the water to get to the boat. Matthew 14:25. disciples watching Jesus from the shore.

#100
Mall
Mall's avatar
Debates: 403
Posts: 2,111
4
4
4
Mall's avatar
Mall
4
4
4
-->
@Shila
As the scripture say, repent .

Repent for your right hand in falsehood.

Scripture does not agree with you .
#101
Shila
Shila's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 5,224
3
3
5
Shila's avatar
Shila
3
3
5
-->
@Mall
As the scripture say, repent .

Repent for your right hand in falsehood.

Scripture does not agree with you .

How many times did Jesus touch water?
Jesus was baptized in water, walked on water, and turned water into wine.

Why? Because Jesus didn’t want to get wet again. He showed his fear of getting wet again after his baptism when he walked on water instead of swimming. Then turned water into wine.
Jesus came to join His disciples. He was walking on the water to get to the boat. Matthew 14:25. disciples watching Jesus from the shore.

Topic's author
#102
CatholicApologetics
CatholicApologetics's avatar
Debates: 7
Posts: 121
0
2
8
CatholicApologetics's avatar
CatholicApologetics
0
2
8
-->
@Stephen
@Shila
@DavidAZZ
And how does washing away "repentance" work then. ?  Do babies "repent" before they are christened or baptised? 
I was mentioned so I thought I'd reply and give some insights. Catholic theology distinguishes between two interrelated but separate realities when it comes to sin and baptism: personal sin and original sin. Repentance properly applies to personal sin—those deliberate acts that each individual commits of their own free will. Infants, of course, have not yet reached the age of reason and thus are not personally culpable of sin in the same way an adult or older child would be. Consequently, they do not undergo “repentance” in the sense of consciously turning away from personal wrongdoing. Yet, the Catholic Church still baptizes infants because of the doctrinal teaching on original sin and the Church’s desire that all be incorporated into Christ’s Mystical Body from the earliest possible moment.

From a Catholic point of view, baptism is both a sacrament of faith and of initiation. When an adult receives baptism, that individual repents of personal sin, professes faith in Christ, and undergoes sacramental washing that signifies and effectuates the forgiveness of sins and incorporation into the Church. The sacrament’s efficacy rests on Christ’s redemptive work, not on the baptized person’s achievements. In the case of infants, since they cannot make a personal profession of faith or consciously repent, the Church relies on the faith of the parents and godparents (and the whole Christian community), who promise to raise the child in the Catholic faith. In effect, the Church “lends” faith to the infant, trusting that as the child matures, he or she will freely embrace the faith for themselves. The notion of baptism “washing away sin” for infants is generally understood to remove the effects of original sin and to infuse sanctifying grace. Original sin is not a personal fault on the child’s part but the inherited deprivation of sanctifying grace resulting from humanity’s first parents and the fall. Through baptism, even though the child has no personal sins to repent of, the stain of original sin is cleansed, and the soul is filled with the divine life of grace. This sacrament is understood as the most profound rebirth in Christ (cf. John 3:5) and a necessary gateway to the other sacraments. Baptism for infants, then, is a gift freely given by God, offering the grace of rebirth into His life, with the expectation and hope that the child, when he or she reaches the age of reason, will affirm this grace by living a life of personal faith and repentance as needed.
#103
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,744
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
-->
@CatholicApologetics
#104
Shila
Shila's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 5,224
3
3
5
Shila's avatar
Shila
3
3
5
-->
@CatholicApologetics
I was mentioned so I thought I'd reply and give some insights. Catholic theology distinguishes between two interrelated but separate realities when it comes to sin and baptism: personal sin and original sin. Repentance properly applies to personal sin—those deliberate acts that each individual commits of their own free will. Infants, of course, have not yet reached the age of reason and thus are not personally culpable of sin in the same way an adult or older child would be.
Jesus was baptized when he was 30 years old. He was not an infant and so personal sin was applicable. So Jesus’s baptism has to be personal sin. Repentance properly applies to personal sin—those deliberate acts that each individual commits of their own free will.
Original sin would have applied to Jesus because Jesus claimed he was there before Abraham.
John 8:58 “Very truly I tell you,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!”
We know Jesus was a sinner who surrounded himself with men. One lied about him and the other betrayed him. Jesus was also crucified for blasphemy.
Jesus should have been baptized for original sin because he was born out of wedlock. Mary was betrothed to Joseph when she was impregnated by God. That was surely an act of sin.
So both baptism applied to Jesus personal sin and original sin. Which might explain why Jesus had such contempt for the religious order, they found he was above original sin despite the evidence from Mary.
What was Jesus’s last words to the Romans who went onto form the Roman Catholic Church?
Luke 23:34 Jesus said, “Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing.”




#105
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,744
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
-->
@Shila
Jesus came to join His disciples. He was walking on the water to get to the boat. Matthew 14:25. disciples watching Jesus from the shore.

It was dawn. With the sun just pepping it head above the horizon. Jesus was standing on a jetty. With dawn light at his back. This would give the appearance of Jesus walking on water.
Some theologians tell us that this became a running joke among his disciple. ie lord it looked like you were walking on the water.  Sounds about right to me.

#106
Shila
Shila's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 5,224
3
3
5
Shila's avatar
Shila
3
3
5
Jesus came to join His disciples. He was walking on the water to get to the boat. Matthew 14:25. disciples watching Jesus from the shore.

It was dawn. With the sun just pepping it head above the horizon. Jesus was standing on a jetty. With dawn light at his back. This would give the appearance of Jesus walking on water.
Some theologians tell us that this became a running joke among his disciple. ie lord it looked like you were walking on the water.  Sounds about right to me.
This means Jesus only let water touch his body once at the age of 30 and that was during his baptism by John.

How did Jesus keep his body clean based on his advice to his disciples?
John 13:10 Jesus said to him, “The one who has bathed does not need to wash, except for his feet, but is completely clean. And you are clean, but not every one of you.”

#107
Tradesecret
Tradesecret's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 3,474
3
2
6
Tradesecret's avatar
Tradesecret
3
2
6
-->
@CatholicApologetics
Hi there, 

Nice topic. 

I think you have handled this question reasonably well. 

I liked your quick explanation of the Trinity. And also in connection with sin. 


I'm intrigued by your thoughts on freewill which is part of this question posed. And also your definition of it. 

Are you of the same mind as Augustine whom you quoted above in relation to original sin?  And if you are, how is it then that you say people are born with a free will - while maintaining their sinful nature? Isn't it true that the Catholic Church teaches that such original sin is negated or washed away with baptism? If that is your position, would you hold that people who are not baptised, do not have such free will? 

#108
Tradesecret
Tradesecret's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 3,474
3
2
6
Tradesecret's avatar
Tradesecret
3
2
6
-->
@Shila
How many times did Jesus touch water?
Jesus was baptized in water, walked on water, and turned water into wine.

Why? Because Jesus didn’t want to get wet again. He showed his fear of getting wet again after his baptism when he walked on water instead of swimming. Then turned water into wine.
Jesus came to join His disciples. He was walking on the water to get to the boat. Matthew 14:25. disciples watching Jesus from the shore.

Jesus touched water many many times.  He kept the law - jot and tittle. No one could accuse him of breaking it - in relation to the ceremonial law. 

Like every Jew - he washed religiously. Morning - dinner - tea - before meals. Etc.  To say he didn't is falling down a rabbit hole - that doesn't exist. 


#109
Tradesecret
Tradesecret's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 3,474
3
2
6
Tradesecret's avatar
Tradesecret
3
2
6
-->
@Mall
Jesus was baptised to full all righeousness. He had no original sin. He had no personal sin. He was born of Mary and of God. 

The Only OT law that relates to a water ceremony, a 30 year old man and a levite, John the Baptist was a levite priest was the ordaining of priests. This is why Jesus didn't need to baptise John , his father probably baptised him, as the normal process of becoming a priest, or some other priest.  

It was the ordination of Jesus as priest, and possibly king and prophet.  

His baptism was different in the sense of the purpose. The form was the same. 


#110
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,744
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
-->
@Mall
Tradesecret,wrote @Mall


It was the ordination of Jesus as priest, and possibly king and prophet.  

His baptism was different in the sense of the purpose. The form was the same. 

Jesus, according to scripture was "begotten by the holy spirit" Luke 1:35,  by all accounts.  Let that sink in, Reverend.


#111
Shila
Shila's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 5,224
3
3
5
Shila's avatar
Shila
3
3
5
-->
@Tradesecret

Like every Jew - he washed religiously. Morning - dinner - tea - before meals. Etc.  To say he didn't is falling down a rabbit hole - that doesn't exist.


Jesus only let water touch his body once at the age of 30 and that was during his baptism by John.

How did Jesus keep his body clean based on his advice to his disciples?
John 13:10 Jesus said to him, “The one who has bathed does not need to wash, except for his feet, but is completely clean. And you are clean, but not every one of you.”

#112
Mall
Mall's avatar
Debates: 403
Posts: 2,111
4
4
4
Mall's avatar
Mall
4
4
4
-->
@Shila
That's what I thought. You won't join me in a live discussion I would take it.
#113
Shila
Shila's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 5,224
3
3
5
Shila's avatar
Shila
3
3
5
-->
@Tradesecret
It was the ordination of Jesus as priest, and possibly king and prophet. 

Jesus is rejected in Judaism as a failed Jewish messiah claimant and a false prophet by all mainstream Jewish denominations. Judaism also considers the worship of any person a form of idolatry, and rejects the claim that Jesus was divine.
#114
Tradesecret
Tradesecret's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 3,474
3
2
6
Tradesecret's avatar
Tradesecret
3
2
6
-->
@Shila
Like every Jew - he washed religiously. Morning - dinner - tea - before meals. Etc.  To say he didn't is falling down a rabbit hole - that doesn't exist. 


Jesus only let water touch his body once at the age of 30 and that was during his baptism by John.

How did Jesus keep his body clean based on his advice to his disciples?
John 13:10 Jesus said to him, “The one who has bathed does not need to wash, except for his feet, but is completely clean. And you are clean, but not every one of you.”

Argument from silence. In other words, a very weak argument, especially given the traditions of the day. Jesus didn't intentionally break traditions unless they were at odds with the grace he was bringing. 
#115
Tradesecret
Tradesecret's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 3,474
3
2
6
Tradesecret's avatar
Tradesecret
3
2
6
-->
@Shila
It was the ordination of Jesus as priest, and possibly king and prophet. 

Jesus is rejected in Judaism as a failed Jewish messiah claimant and a false prophet by all mainstream Jewish denominations. Judaism also considers the worship of any person a form of idolatry, and rejects the claim that Jesus was divine.
Yes, and that is why God judged them and destroyed the temple.  That's the story of the book of Revelation. 

The Jews need to repent of their rejection of the True Messiah and embrace the saviour of the world. 


#116
Shila
Shila's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 5,224
3
3
5
Shila's avatar
Shila
3
3
5
-->
@Tradesecret
Yes, and that is why God judged them and destroyed the temple.  That's the story of the book of Revelation. 

The Jews need to repent of their rejection of the True Messiah and embrace the saviour of the world. 
The Jews were never credited for helping Jesus fulfill his mission by crucifying him and making him God’s sacrificial lamb.
Why did Jesus have to die for our salvation?
Our sin has to be punished and “the wages of sin is death” (Rom. 6:23). So, there had to be death to pay the penalty for sin and blood had to be shed. Hebrews 9:22 says, “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins.”

The Bible was written by Jews both the New and Old Testament. Even though millions of bibles have been sold. The Jews never receive a penny for their copyright.

What about the Jews willing to share heaven with other uncircumcised gentiles? 

#117
Tradesecret
Tradesecret's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 3,474
3
2
6
Tradesecret's avatar
Tradesecret
3
2
6
-->
@Shila
Yes, and that is why God judged them and destroyed the temple.  That's the story of the book of Revelation. 

The Jews need to repent of their rejection of the True Messiah and embrace the saviour of the world. 
The Jews were never credited for helping Jesus fulfill his mission by crucifying him and making him God’s sacrificial lamb.
It was God's plan of salvation to use sinful humans to fulfil it. If there were no sinful people, then there would have been no need for salvation.  Yet, it is the greatest irony that God used Mans' rebelliousness, sinfulness, and stupidity to bring about the salvation of humanity. 

Why did Jesus have to die for our salvation?
Our sin has to be punished and “the wages of sin is death” (Rom. 6:23). So, there had to be death to pay the penalty for sin and blood had to be shed. Hebrews 9:22 says, “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins.”

That's the whole point of the Gospel. Death, everlasting death is the consequence of sin. And so everyone must die eternally, unless, there is a satisfying death.  Jesus, the Son of God, divine, and innocent was that sacrifice and atonement for those whom God has given faith to believe.  Everyone else who doesn't believe will suffer this everlasting death. 

The Bible was written by Jews both the New and Old Testament. Even though millions of bibles have been sold. The Jews never receive a penny for their copyright.

What about the Jews willing to share heaven with other uncircumcised gentiles? 
The Jews as a nation never had a copyright over the OT or the NT.  Luke wasn't a Jew. Job wasn't a Jew.  If you can find who has the copyright, then I will help you pursue whom to give the money to. 

There are many Jews in Heaven and many Gentiles.  That's a good thing, I think. 
#118
Shila
Shila's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 5,224
3
3
5
Shila's avatar
Shila
3
3
5
-->
@Tradesecret
The Jews as a nation never had a copyright over the OT or the NT.  Luke wasn't a Jew. Job wasn't a Jew.  If you can find who has the copyright, then I will help you pursue whom to give the money to. 

There are many Jews in Heaven and many Gentiles.  That's a good thing, I think. 
The Bible is made up of 66 books. So except for Luke and Job the rest of the Bible were written by Jewish authors. Yet the Jews were not awarded any compensation for their contribution. Even Trump cashed in on Bible sales.
#119
Tradesecret
Tradesecret's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 3,474
3
2
6
Tradesecret's avatar
Tradesecret
3
2
6
-->
@Shila
he Jews as a nation never had a copyright over the OT or the NT.  Luke wasn't a Jew. Job wasn't a Jew.  If you can find who has the copyright, then I will help you pursue whom to give the money to. 

There are many Jews in Heaven and many Gentiles.  That's a good thing, I think. 
The Bible is made up of 66 books. So except for Luke and Job the rest of the Bible were written by Jewish authors. Yet the Jews were not awarded any compensation for their contribution. Even Trump cashed in on Bible sales.
I notice you didn't provide any evidence of a copyright.  Interestingly enough, most of the NT writers were Jews who converted to Christianity, And were Christians when they wrote the NT. So there were no Jewish non-Christians who wrote any of the NT.  And the Christians will all receive their rewards in heaven. Indeed even as the writers of the OT will too.   So in fact your statement that the Jews were not awarded any compensation is nonsensical.  Rupert Murdoch owns Zondervan, or at least he used too. Some have suspected he is a Jew. 
#120
Shila
Shila's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 5,224
3
3
5
Shila's avatar
Shila
3
3
5
-->
@Tradesecret
The Bible is made up of 66 books. So except for Luke and Job the rest of the Bible were written by Jewish authors. Yet the Jews were not awarded any compensation for their contribution. Even Trump cashed in on Bible sales.
I notice you didn't provide any evidence of a copyright.  Interestingly enough, most of the NT writers were Jews who converted to Christianity, And were Christians when they wrote the NT. So there were no Jewish non-Christians who wrote any of the NT.  And the Christians will all receive their rewards in heaven. Indeed even as the writers of the OT will too.   So in fact your statement that the Jews were not awarded any compensation is nonsensical.  Rupert Murdoch owns Zondervan, or at least he used too. Some have suspected he is a Jew. 
Jesus even said he was sent only to save the Jews.
Matthew 15:24 
Then Jesus said to the woman, “I was sent only to help God's lost sheep—the people of Israel.” 

But that did not stop the Christians from stealing salvation from the Jews.