Choose Your Role DP2

Author: Lunatic

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Earth
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@ILikePie5
I'm logging off soon, so I'll get to it later tomorrow. Also, I got shit to do in the afternoon, so don't do anything stupid before I can, 'kay?
WyIted
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@ILikePie5
It's not risky. Savant was today's kill. It delays it by one day and I have never seen roleblocker stop the NK . It blocks roles and NK is not a role
WyIted
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@ILikePie5
In my games roleblocked prevent NKs
I guess we have to ask them

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@Lunatic
  1. Does a roleblock of the scum carrying out the NK, prevent the NK?

WyIted
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@Savant
If you can remember the game where I mistakes you for scum for similar reason as I am giving now that might be useful to me. I don't personally remember the game or anything about it so I would be clueless where to look
whiteflame
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@ILikePie5
Well, I guess it’s basically obvious what I am given Earth’s gambit earlier.

I’m the Cop. Needless to say, Investigative role, probably useless now.

I targeted Pie last night. I needed confirmation that I could trust his information. I was pretty blatant about my uncertainties last DP. Result was innocent. Not impossible that he’s the Godfather or something (wouldn’t be a first), but for now at least, I buy that he’s town.

Other options were Watcher, Tracker and something called a Category Cop, which would have told me the category of my target but was also 1X.
whiteflame
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Anyway, really late, now I’m off for the night for real.
WyIted
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Lunatic messaged me that a role block would block the kill.
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If savant flips town we lynch Vader

Vtl savant
AustinL0926
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@Savant
Did you ever claim the other options you were given?
AustinL0926
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I'll sort out the mech tmrw, looks pretty complicated but I'm pretty sure it's provable that at least one person is lying.

My working POE is Savant/Vader with maybe a side of Casey.

GP town by role and behavior
Wylted town for behavior and genuine solving yesterday as town that melded closely with my own thoughts
Pie town for the way he handled his role claim + cop clear + pushing me yday in a way very uninformed of my alignment
WF probs town for good faith solving
Earth probs town for reaction test and excitement at pushing Vader

Lunatic
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Official Vote Count:

Savant- 2/5- greyparrot, wylted
Vader- 2/5- earth, savant

Vader
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@ILikePie5
My other roles were popular, politician, and 1x dark lord. All of which are "role confirmable," hence why I said I don't believe in the validity of role confirmations. Plus Dark Lord and Politicians had choices to switch the momentum of the game completely. It was between popular and politician and I just thought 1x Double Voter would not hurt town the most 
What do each of the 3 roles do?

Popular - takes one extra vote to lynch (deactive MYLO/LYLO)
Dark Lord - forces lynch at plurality  (deactive MYLO/LYLO)
Politican - control another playes vote during DP
Vader
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@ILikePie5
I didn't get a notification saying I was roleblocked so... no??? Lmao. So you are lying lmao. My role is used in the DP so why would I know I got roleblocked
Explain
Gut reaction was that he was lying because I have a DP use role, I honestly didn't know what was so hard to understand
Vader
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@whiteflame
Did you know there were still 9 people left in the game when you claimed or did you miss that and claim under the presumption that there were 7-8 people left?
Regardless, why start off the DP with your claim? The only explanation I see here is that you say there were "enough options and leeway" but I don't understand what you're getting at. What value did you see in claiming this early?
1. I tend to claim DP2 as early as possible if it's a role that can be confirmed easily. I was always planning to claim DP2 and using the role at some point but mostly at L-1 so it wouldn't do as much of damage.
2. With 9 people in the game, there is no even LESS of a need to hold off on this because we have 9 alive still going into this DP. I know role confirmation is out the window, but at least you know I was thinking from town utility

I've claimed early DP2 if games I was town (specifically the 1x Cop game that Pie had), and there's another I can't remember. It's not my normal meta but I do it if there's no negative that could occur from doing so early
Vader
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@ILikePie5
See above
Vader
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@Savant
So either Savant is lying through his teeth or I've been framed
How would you have been “framed”
Well mafia knows that Austin was going to back from Grey's role, so no matter what they go to a 6v2. A risky gambit could be waiving an NK to fake a RB. Would very much work because of the nature of the game
Vader
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@ILikePie5
Sorry meant for Pie
Vader
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Casey being a Mason Recruiter and then choosing Pie was probably the right choice. But even still with that Casey still could be scum considering the nature of the game and Mason Recruiter would be the best way to draw town confirmation. So it's honestly a tough choice to say but feels behaviorally town IMO
Earth
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Why would mafia purposely no kill? Austin is confirmed town and now WF has copped Pie innocent. So assuming WF is town, that is three players in the town pile. What is the point where you start playing to your win condition?
Greyparrot
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@WyIted
I think Vader is town tho...
Greyparrot
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@Vader
Who is your second scum read?
whiteflame
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Well, for the second night in a row, I got a terrible night's sleep, so today should be fun.

I will post more on my thoughts and reads as the day goes on. I suspect that, since I've now outed myself as the Cop, my role will almost certainly be messed with or I'll just be straight up NK'd tonight.

There is no reason whatsoever to rush this DP, especially since this is probably the last time all 9 of us will be able to chime in and provide our thoughts. Everyone should be posting a set of reads.

For now, at least, I'm going to clarify what I'm generally thinking. Casey's Mason Recruiter (which should fail if it targets scum from everything I've read) and my Cop on Pie both strongly suggest that Pie is town, since while mine could be fooled by a Godfather, Casey's can't. So unless he's a scum Mason who is tying himself to his own scum partner (possible, but I just don't see these two making that kind of gambit this early), Pie's town. Pie's the only one I'm talking about because he gave us pertinent information last DP that I think we should all be keeping in mind this DP. I broke it down to these four pieces of information in DP1:

- Mafia has two roles each
- One of those roles is in their faked Category, essentially making them actually part of that Category
- The other is from a separate Category that is not one of the nine stated categories
- Scum can only use one of their two roles per night, assuming that both are active PRs only usable at night

So we know scum likely have a role that publicly validates their claimed Category plus another role that is a toss-up. We know that no one died during the first NP, so either the NK was prevented or scum abstained from it, the latter of which seems unlikely given the obvious target (GP) who would revive Austin. We only have one claimed use of a role (Savant's RB) that could conceivably have stopped the NK. Our only publicly confirmed role is GP (and a scum reviver seems pretty blatantly absurd to me), though I would consider Casey's role basically confirmed as well. Austin is confirmed town by his flip. That leaves a good deal of room for uncertainty with the others beyond Pie, with my PoE currently consisting of: Vader, Savant (highly doubt they're on a team), WyIted and Earth. Given that Earth is, by default, the Killing role, I'd still like to get his claim, but I'd say it's at least significantly unlikely that scum have access to such a role and didn't use it. Still, I'll wait to get his claim before I say anything else about how I view this group.

Vader
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@Greyparrot
Earth. I don't understand how town thinks these bullshit "logic tests" are town reactionary. All you do is confuse the town and ruin your credibility by doing such. There is 0 purpose to doing them.

Not to mention Earth tried to fake a "scumslip" to push a lynch and in fact was the first to jump on it over the person who "roleblocked" me. About as real of a roleblock as Kamala celebrating Kwanza
Greyparrot
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@Vader
I agree with your assessment.
Savant
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@Earth
@Vader
@AustinL0926
Here's what Earth is struggling to articulate: Vader said he didn't get a notification at night saying his action failed, and then said that this means I must be lying. However, if he doesn't have a night action as he claims, then not getting a notification wouldn't tell him anything about if he was roleblocked, because there would be no action to block.

So his accusation against me implies that he must know whether or not he's roleblocked at night, and that he's lying about not having a night action. Since I know I did rb him, that makes him likely scum.
Savant
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@AustinL0926
I was wrong yesterday and I'm sorry about that. I'm glad we get the chance to talk this out at least because I'm very sure Vader is scum at this point. One thing that's odd is that I was very clear that I was the roleblocker and that I suspected Vader. I don't know why scum would choose to have him do the night kill, but unless someone else was a healer or something (and we've gotten zero claims of that), it's the only reasonable explanation for what happened last night.
Savant
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@Vader
@whiteflame
@AustinL0926
Why would scum sacrifice a night kill to "frame" a town member, when they could instead just guarantee they kill town at night? If it's to avoid getting lynched the next day, then that means I'm certainly not scum, because I'll def get lynched tomorrow if Vader flips town. Plus delaying kills of town gives town more time to do night actions and such.
Savant
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@AustinL0926
Did you ever claim the other options you were given?
They sucked. One let me block non-killing actions against me at night. One let me block any ability except the night kill. One let me take a player's x-shot abilities. The role block was the only option that let me stop night kills.
Savant
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@WyIted
It blocks roles and NK is not a role
Description said I prevent the player from targeting anyone else. That includes night kills.