Jesus = Fact

Author: 3RU7AL ,

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  • 3RU7AL
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    The Jesus was a real, historical human being.

    The (historically verifiable) prophecies of the Jewish and Christian scriptures are 100% true.

    Neither of these things lend the slightest credibility to either the Jewish or Christian religious beliefs.

    In the exact same way,

    Gilgamesh was a real, historical human being.

    The (historically verifiable) events and prophecies of the Epic of Gilgamesh are 100% true.

    Neither of these things lend the slightest credibility to the ancient Sumerian religious beliefs.
  • janesix
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    --> @3RU7AL
    Jesus is a mythology, as was Gilgamesh. 

    They are true mythology,as in they are archetypes of the human soul in transmutation.
  • 3RU7AL
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    --> @janesix
    Jesus is a mythology, as was Gilgamesh. 

    They are true mythology,as in they are archetypes of the human soul in transmutation.
    Sure, maybe, but the point is that EVEN IFF they are treated as historical fact, that does absolutely nothing to support their religious teachings.
  • Polytheist-Witch
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    There is no proof Jesus walked the Earth. Myth is myth. That doesn't make it false. Religious text should not prove anything but transfer information to believers 
  • EtrnlVw
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    --> @3RU7AL
    Sure, maybe, but the point is that EVEN IFF they are treated as historical fact, that does absolutely nothing to support their religious teachings.

    I'm not sure what you're suggesting, do you mean that the Gospels don't account for those teachings? granted, Christianity as a whole is severely fragmented and much of its dogma is a mess but the term Christian means to follow the teachings of Jesus ..which would come from the Gospels. 
  • 3RU7AL
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    --> @Polytheist-Witch
    There is no proof Jesus walked the Earth. Myth is myth. That doesn't make it false. Religious text should not prove anything but transfer information to believers
    Sure, maybe, but the point is that EVEN IFF they are treated as historical fact, that does absolutely nothing to support their religious teachings.

  • EtrnlVw
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    --> @3RU7AL
    We hear ya loud and clear, but could you elaborate on it LOL?
  • Polytheist-Witch
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    --> @3RU7AL
    Again who said it did. 
  • 3RU7AL
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    --> @EtrnlVw
    I'm not sure what you're suggesting, do you mean that the Gospels don't account for those teachings? granted, Christianity as a whole is severely fragmented and much of its dogma is a mess but the term Christian means to follow the teachings of Jesus ..which would come from the Gospels. 
    I'm saying that a lot of people seem to get caught up in the claims that the Jesus was a really real, real actual flesh and blood human being, and "the flood" was a (pre)historical event and Daniel predicted some stuff.

    I'm simply trying to point out that all of these are just a basket of red herrings.

    And trying to argue about any of them is the epistemological equivalent of rearranging the deck chairs on the titanic.

    And even "the gospels" that you highlighted, if taken as historically authentic, they are, at most, accurate accounts of what the authors themselves believed to be true at the time.  The Jesus said, "this and that and some other thing" and sure, maybe that person existed and maybe they even said that stuff, but that doesn't make any supernatural claims any more likely to be true than if someone said that same stuff today.

    All of the "authentication" claims that supposedly fit the Jewish and Christian writings also apply equally well to the Epic of Gilgamesh.

    And the Epic of Gilgamesh is significantly older and better authenticated.  The earliest tablets that record the Epic of Gilgamesh are estimated to be from about 3000 BCE.  The oldest surviving record of the Jewish stories are from about 300 BCE.

    Christians seem to understand that the Epic of Gilgamesh is older than both Judaism and Christianity and that Gilgamesh himself was very likely a historical king.  And it seems like it would be difficult for them to deny the accounts that "the first man was made of mud" and "the gods sent a great flood because the humans displeased them" and "one of the gods decided to warn one of their followers about the flood before it happened" without being incredulous about those same exact stories written in their own special books.

    But even then, a Christian has the impulse to believe that even if some of that stuff is true, that doesn't mean the ancient Sumerian gods were "real".

    And so, any Jewish or Christian arguments attempting to claim "historical accuracy" of their ancient texts are absolutely and utterly moot.
  • 3RU7AL
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    --> @Polytheist-Witch
    Again who said it did. 
    Christians generally like to claim that their preferred ancient writings are historically accurate and that somehow proves that the "YHWH" is the one-and-only truest and most amazing god.
  • Polytheist-Witch
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    --> @3RU7AL
    Christians claim all kinds of things. 
  • WisdomofAges
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    --> @Polytheist-Witch
    JESUS ?   the first ......RECORDED ARTIFICIAL INSEMINATION event in human history ?......SO...who was/is JESUS DADDY ?   

    his MOMMY is some illiterate tribal Jewish girl.....WHO GOT HER PREGNANT ?     was it an ALIEN from a highly advanced space faring
    explorer species ?   ....makes sense in regards to the Ancient Sumerians and Egyptians who created amazing architectural feats..math,
    science, philosophy, medicine, arts, +++ obviously their mega structures were not designed and built by the idiotic TRIBAL humans of the time...
    There WAS an INFLUENCE...

    It's no different then present day humans colonizing MARS and discovering some sub human species living underground...there would be EXPERIMENTS...scientific evaluations...i.e. DNA..GENETICS..++++   

    Why then .....are so many present day HUMANS so FCKG STUPID to not see the obvious....that the so called modern HUMAN LIFE FORM
    is a genetically enhanced/modified version of some subspecies by an advanced ALIEN presence...easily identified as GOD LIKE....in Ancient
    times....

    Why do YOU IDIOTS think the Middle East is a hotbed of CONTROVERSY and CONFLICT ?  because of retarded RELIGIOUS/GOD differences ?
    Because of OIL ?    IDIOT...America is now the leading exporter of this GARBAGE....it's all a HOAX....YOU believe this crap ?  Jesus/oil/religion

    Then YOU are a FOOL....Iran-Iraq-Syria-Turkey had major ALIEN PRESENCE and ACTIVITY....like the NAZIS...world powers want access to the
    region to explore and exploit these amazing technologies....the GOD/RELIGIOUS hoax is a cover up.....the TRUTH would completely alter the
    retarded FABRICATED BY CON ARTIST SCUM human story timeline and that present day humans are the result of GENETIC EXPERIMENTATION
    and MUTATION.....

    This JESUS hoax is a perfect example of how a well played out story that began thousands of years before this Jewish infant boy GOD shows up !
    was and still is USED as a scapegoat TOOL to hypnotize truly STUPID HUMANS into slavery and servitude of some Church CULT clown.....

    Gilgamesh is just one of many tales of the times they were popular....JESUS was spun from many stories with similar themes across the Mediterranean and Middle east region...

    JESUS ?  Son of WHO ?   ....oh, NO the con artist hypnotized Christian retard says....JESUS is GOD of GODS !   really....!   R E T A R D E D .....

    Like the CREATOR of billions of Galaxies and Trillions of Worlds and seemingly infinite space and dimensions...shows up as an infant through
    some illiterate tribal JEW GIRL ?   and 30 + years later is condemned and set up by his own people ?  to be whipped=beaten-and nailed to a cross to ROT....for declaring himself the MESSIAH of the JEWS !   then ends up becoming the GOD of GODS by the Roman catholic Church !  

    HOLY SHT ! ....and these hypnotized dumbed down Christian clowns actually fall for this HOAX !   greatest marketing scam in human history !

    JESUS ?  like SO WHAT....ZEUS..like SO WHAT....ODIN...like SO WHAT +++thousands of other human invented GODS...SO FCKG WHAT !   

    For those retards who want to fall on the floor and shake like an imbecile for the "GOD" planted between their ears by some Religious Parasite
    Vampire...FINE...go drown in YOUR "GOD" toilet and Comic Book Bible/Koran verse VOMIT....no need to murder and destroy over these idiotic
    human HOAXES for power and control....THIS IS THE DISEASE of these idiot JESUS/ALLAH God hoaxes....all the death and destruction in their
    names.....till JESUS or his neighbor ALLAH actually show up....these Parasite Vampires that follow and promote their GOD garbage can go to their
    HELL....like get off this planet retards....go to your idiotic HEAVEN....humans will easily THRIVE without the GOD garbage....

  • 3RU7AL
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    --> @WisdomofAges
    I'm just trying to point out that historical accuracy (and even sincere reports of miracles) does not give any credibility to any specific god.
  • WisdomofAges
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    --> @3RU7AL
    YOUR POINT is accurate....sadly it has little impact on the REAL ISSUE that is creating CONFLICT-CORRUPTION-DESTRUCTION by those
    Parasite Vampire Psychopaths who use the JESUS and ALLAH God invented HOAXES to assimilate and destroy the OPEN MINDED HUMAN....

    Unlike many Ancient and present day Philosophers who discuss and debate without FEAR-INTIMIDATION-VIOLENCE any topic....the Christian
    and Muslim are HYPNOTIZED for CONFLICT and DESTRUCTION towards all that do not accept their idiotic GOD and the totally retarded Dogma
    these parasite vampires attach to HIM (God has to be some old man imbecile..there is no way GOD can be female ! )  it's all total BULL SHT....

    So YES ...your point and attempt is VALID...but a solution to STOP these Christian and Muslim parasite Vampires from destroying the planet is
    PARAMOUNT....

    SOLUTION = immediately relegate JESUS and his neighbor God HOAX invention...ALLAH and their idiotic Comic Book Bible and koran garbage
    to Mythology for children's entertainment....and to be taken as seriously as the ZEUS and ODIN Mythology....which is not taken SERIOUSLY enough
    to assimilate and MURDER humans over....



  • Polytheist-Witch
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    --> @WisdomofAges
    You are an idiot bigot
  • WisdomofAges
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    --> @Polytheist-Witch
    Merely stating the FACTS....Zeus is no longer relevant...Odin, Ra, Apollo, +++ to many "GODS" to mention..

    Yet the Parasite vampires that promote Jesus and Allah are the most closed minded humans on EARTH....both the Christian ad the Muslim act 
    like they are so RIGHTEOUS..yet these Vampires have caused more DEATH and DESTRUCTION then all of the WARS combined on this planet..Many WARS were caused by the conflict these Jesus and Allah Parasite Vampires...who used their idiotic Church-Mosque-Bible-Koran
    VOMIT to incite FEAR-INTIMIDATION-VIOLENCE and hatred towards all who do not accept their idiotic GOD and DOGMA constructs...

    So many retarded CHURCH spins over some simple, non materialistic, non hatred mongering white Jewish self proclaimed MESSIAH guy ! 
    and NONE of these retarded CHURCHES agree on anything but CONFLICT....all argue against each other..all accuse the other of doing things
    the wrong way.....one thing for sure ..if this JESUS character ever shows up again ?  he would SPIT on every idiotic Church invented in his name
    and condemn all of them for the abuses towards humanity they cause in his name for self empowerment.....

    Then there is ALLAH ? well it's more simplified with this GOD construct the Arabs created....they spin off the Moses meets GOD joke with their 
    MUHAMMAD meets ALLAH....in 600 something AD....and ISLAM plus the totally psychotic koran is fabricated...then a global rampage of DEATH
    and DESTRUCTION...to assimilate by force others into their idiotic CULT....

    NO human needs either of these Middle East GODS....to thrive...especially the Psychotic parasite vampires that cause all the HATRED and ANGER
    against all who do not accept their BS.....no...absolutely NO MORE !

    As the ISIS retards are neutralized in the Middle East...it's time to relegate Jesus and his neighbor Allah to mythology....no more DEATH and DESTRUCTION over these absurd JEW GOD spin hoaxes.....

  • Polytheist-Witch
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    --> @WisdomofAges
    Like I said.
  • Mopac
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    --> @3RU7AL
    Yet Jesus left a church, and it exists even to this day.

    The Orthodox Church

  • Stronn
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    --> @Mopac
    Mohammad, Buddha, Joseph Smith, Sun Myung Moon and dozens of others left churches too.

    Leaving a church does not mean your teachings are correct.
  • Mopac
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    --> @Stronn
    Sure doesn't.

    And no one is arguing that.
  • Stronn
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    --> @Mopac
    Why bring up that Jesus left a church, then?

  • Outplayz
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    --> @3RU7AL
    Exactly. Even if he was real and even if his miracles and spiritual experiences where real... it doesn't mean god of the Bible. I've had experience too, and so have thousands, if not millions of other people, of all faiths, beliefs and philosophies. If anything, it does point towards an afterlife or an extra dimension humans aren't aware of... but once you start saying with certainty you know what that is, you're just another human trying to be better than other humans and get very human emotions of feeling right. The true reality of things could be... there is a god for every single person. It could be a simulation. It could be a robotic race that downloads into human forms, it could be a super hero reality where Thanos turned all super hero's into human beings without powers as punishments... i can literally keep going. 

    However, you can logically determine which beliefs are least likely (edit: and more likely). And in my opinion, any belief that says it's the only one and that you must believe it to be saved fits in that category (least likely).  

    But with all that said, that is also why i believe there is sufficient evidence to at the very least suspect either extra dimensions/realities or even an afterlife. The frequency in which spiritual experiences happen and that for countless of years in human history, or from the very beginning even, we know intuitively this isn't it... pretty convincing we should stay open-minded. 
  • Mopac
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    --> @Stronn
    Because there is no church of Gilgamesh that stretches back to antiquity.

    At best, maybe some neopagan nerds have fabricated a mock religion in recent times that they certainly wouldn't die for.






  • Deb-8-a-bull
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    OK OK , jesus was real.  LET'S DO IT. 
    I can do it. 
    But ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm , he wasn't " magic " 
    Ya know what i mean ?

    Like he couldn't do the water to wine trick. 
    He couldn't do the , double heel click  " make the bucket fill up with fish " thing. 
    Water walking .  COULDN'T DO IT. 
    What else .
    Oh yeah. No Touchy Feely Healy.
    Limb growing. NEGATIVE.   ( this we can rule out as we all know they didn't have amputees back then. ) hehe.

    No but I've kind of always believed in a Jesus bloke. 

    ( JESUS WAS A FRONT MAN. ) 
    See it's all about getting a little group up and running. FULL STOP. 
    And what a better way to get a group up and running then brainwashing a ummmmm. A Jesus. 

    ( JESUS WAS A COOL CAT. )  absolutely mesmerizing. He spoke, they listened. 

    Jesus was all this but above everything else. (  JESUS WAS A GAMBIT ) 
    He would of been groomed for a month or two by the person / persons that wanted to " GET A GROUP UP AND RUNNING " 
    They would of made poor Jesus feel like a absolute god. Pimped him out. 
    Getting people to bow before him and stuff. 
    He would of got given things like racing camels and hotted up donkeys. 
     

    Then They sent him all around town charming the pants of everyone he meet. 
    Then the sent him on that wild weekend where the people that played Jesus  played their master stoke. 
    You know ?   Make a real spectacle of him.  
    They were going to make Jesus go out with a Big Bang. 

    So yeah he got flogged,  he got flogged real good like. 
    And boy did he love it. See the folks that conned Jesus into believing in a god actually got old jesus to think he was like a god. 
    They even fooled him into believing that when he died , he would like come back. 
    Poor poor Jesus. 

    A few weeks later, the blokes behind the getting a group up and running ,  had a dozen men farming for them. 

    Imagine having 10 blokes that you  make do pretty much anything at your disposal. 

    Well this is what i believe jesus was.  
    A overall top guy , who was skilfully horribly misled. 
    Used. 











     
  • EtrnlVw
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    --> @Deb-8-a-bull
    Well this is what i believe jesus was.  
    A overall top guy , who was skilfully horribly misled. 
    Used. 

    Sure and so was Bruce Lee. Lee wasn't really a Master he was just misled lol.