chick's rant against trump supporters

Author: n8nrgim

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Double_R
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@WyIted
Do you not realize how close we were to a one party state?
No, please enlighten me.

Hell they wanted a one party state so bad there was 2 assassination attempts
Ah yes, the nefarious "they".

And by "they" you're talking about one deranged conservative kid who by all the evidence was motivated by nothing more than a desire to be famous by killing someone famous, and one Vivek/Haley supporter. But tell me more about "they".

What type of defense is "well there is an opposition party so the intent to make America a third world country by continuing the inflation, opening borders, cutting the penises off of gay kids and continued attacks on free speech doesn't matter"
It's the type of defense one makes up because they have no rational position to defend so instead they invent a cartoonish caricature of the opposition to attack as a distraction.

You claimed that voting for the status quo would turn us into a third world nation. The status quo means doing the same. So I challenged you to explain how the wealthiest and most powerful nation on earth doing the same thing it always does would turn it into a third world country. Still waiting for an answer on that.

The rest of your post is just hard to take as a serious set of beliefs, yet I've interacted with you enough to know that you really do believe them. Inflation was a global phenomenon resulting from the disruptions of COVID. The US handled it better than all of our peer nations and it had already fully subsided by the time Biden left office. So claiming the Dems fully intended to keep it going is just plain stupid.

You already said the borders were never open.

Cutting penises off of gay kids... This is too stupid to even comment on. Moving on.

Attacks on free speech??? Says the guy now supporting the president who is ordering the FCC to investigate news networks he doesn't like, deporting students based on their political views, ordering the DOJ to investigate former employees for their political views and now ordering the investigation of a rival political advocacy group. Right, tell me more about how much you value free speech.
WyIted
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@Double_R
And by "they" you're talking about one deranged conservative kid who by all the evidence was motivated by nothing more than a desire to be famous by killing someone famous, and one Vivek/Haley supporter. But tell me more about "they".
There sure are a lot of trump supporters and republicans trying to kill trump. You know those guys firebombing tesla dealerships probably own Tesla stock and love elon musk
Double_R
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@WyIted
There sure are a lot of trump supporters and republicans trying to kill trump. You know those guys firebombing tesla dealerships probably own Tesla stock and love elon musk
Yeah that's the typical throw away response I would expect.

Neither of those individuals were known to be Trump supporters, but they certainly weren't blue blooded democrats acting on subliminal orders from MSNBC as you guys love to portray it. Two random individual people do not represent an entire political movement in any rational sense, especially when they didn't even share the ideology you guys are trying so desperately to slander. The point is that your implications here are absurd.
Shila
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@TheGreatSunGod
the first time a former U.S. president has been convicted of a crime
When you are rich and famous, you can do anything. Grab them by the pussy
You mean want to be famous. Trump became famous after he was sued for grabbing E Jean Carroll’s pussy.
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@Shila
Trump became famous after he was sued for grabbing E Jean Carroll’s pussy.
He was born rich, and its not like thats the first woman he grabbed by her pussy.
Shila
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@TheGreatSunGod
Trump became famous after he was sued for grabbing E Jean Carroll’s pussy.
He was born rich, and it’s not like thats the first woman he grabbed by her pussy.
But he became famous for paying her 88.3 million dollars for pussy grabbing.
Swagnarok
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@Double_R
Apples to oranges comparison. The government doesn't charge for it's services, it does the opposite, because government has a very different purpose than the private sector.
Sure, but that wasn't my point; point is, a given sum of money retained by taxpayers because of budget cuts has a greater chance of creating new private sector jobs than the number of public sector jobs created by that money being spent by the government.
Now to be fair, you could argue this isn't the case here since money specifically allocated to paying a public sector employee is kept by many pockets to be spent many different ways, but if those layoffs force the government to take on a smaller workload and spend less money each year than just the salaries it's doling out, then the end result is the same.

Granted, none of those benefits will materialize if the saved money instead goes toward lowering the deficit, but that's a price well worth paying if said reduction is anywhere near substantial.

There have been 9/11 conspiracy theorists since 9/11. That doesn't make it acceptable to put one in charge of Homeland security.
Fair, but it remains to be seen to what extent he'll refuse to bend to internal and external pressures; for example, in light of the Texas thing he's already endorsed the MMR measles vaccine. Some anti-vaxxers who've grown to trust RFK Jr. might now denounce him as a traitor, but a few might change their minds if the message to get their child vaccinated was coming from someone with his level of street cred within the movement.

Buteven if not, vaccines are just one part of HHS's mission. Enough positive reforms in other areas, such as getting random chemicals out of what we eat, could plausibly outweigh whatever damage he does on this front.

You think banks not ripping us off or company's keeping our air clean happens by itself?
The government's job is to enforce contracts and property rights. Insofar as a bank tries to violate either of these things, then yes, it's the government's job to stop them. But a Republican-sized government is up to the task. And, a bank can only "rip you off" in an involuntarily transaction. To frame voluntarily transactions as involuntary is doing no one a service in the long run.
From what I understand, the Biden administration made a big stink about banks charging fees for some services, such as overdrafts. I'm no expert on the subject but overdraft fees make sense; the customer is withdrawing money they don't have, which is effectively a loan. Overdraft fees let the bank recoup some of their costs incurred by people who never repay the loan, without which they'd be more inclined to deny the service to customers with poor credit. And, it discourages needlessly overdrawing, which might actually do some customers a service.

I work in a tourist attraction in NYC. Our business is down about 20% from last year, a significant reason for that is a loss of international customers. Our contacts in Canada who normally organize school groups have flat out told us they're not coming because of Trump. Just yesterday I sent an email to 4 individuals we were going to hire to tell them we don't have an open position for them to fill after having to downgrade all of our projections for the rest of the year. We cancelled the entire hiring wave where we were originally planning to hire another 9 people.
Okay. That is unfortunate. But we can't decide national policy on the basis of not angering foreign tourists who contribute a tiny sliver of our GDP.

TheGreatSunGod
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@Shila
But he became famous for paying her 88.3 million dollars for pussy grabbing.
That is an expensive pussy.

Shila
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@TheGreatSunGod
But he became famous for paying her 88.3 million dollars for pussy grabbing.
That is an expensive pussy.
Especially for someone with small hands.
Swagnarok
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@Double_R
The Trump administration has yet to produce any evidence that the man in the headlines is MS13 because he never had a hearing, which is the point here.
Double_R
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@Swagnarok
a given sum of money retained by taxpayers because of budget cuts has a greater chance of creating new private sector jobs than the number of public sector jobs created by that money being spent by the government.
I'm really not sure how you're reaching that conclusion, and frankly it doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Economic strength is driven by the frequency at which money changes hands. That's why economists hate fear and uncertainty so much. Even if there is nothing fundamentally wrong, if people think there is and change their spending habits, that alone can cause a recession. Nothing changed in terms of the money supply, people were just holding onto it so it wasn't circulating. $1000 under the mattress is indistinguishable from $1000 that doesn't exist.

This is why study after study shows that the most economically stimulative thing the government can spend money on is food stamps, because people who receive them will spend it quickly. The least stimulative? Tax cuts for the wealthy.

So with regards to the government spending on jobs via the public sector, the bulk of that money will get spent right away because people have to live. Factoring the added benefit of a public service, seems like a pretty good deal.

Insofar as a bank tries to violate either of these things, then yes, it's the government's job to stop them. But a Republican-sized government is up to the task.
This is just hand waiving. Trump has gutted the agencies who's job it is to go after institutions who engage in fraudulent activities. There is no reasonable argument that that will not result in more fraudulent activities.

a bank can only "rip you off" in an involuntarily transaction. To frame voluntarily transactions as involuntary is doing no one a service in the long run.
It's doing the public a service. Preying on the vulnerable people in a society is a path that's been traveled by fraudsters as long as money has existed. That benefits no one and when allowed to run rampant affects all of us. Societies flourish when it's citizenry contributes to it's well being. There is no contribution by people who are taking people's money without providing a real service of value.

That is unfortunate. But we can't decide national policy on the basis of not angering foreign tourists who contribute a tiny sliver of our GDP.
No, we decide national policy on what's best for the country. Pissing off our trading partners by belittling them does nothing for anyone, except those that hate us. And this isn't the result of a global virus or a failure of imagination, this is the result of of one petty, childish and small man who for reasons I'll never understand people looked at and said "yeah, that's the guy who should be running the country". 
Greyparrot
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@Double_R
I'm really not sure how you're reaching that conclusion, and frankly it doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Economic strength is driven by the frequency at which money changes hands. That's why economists hate fear and uncertainty so much.
Keynesian economists for sure hate it when value based economics supersede an economy driven by monetary policies. I will have to grant you that.

As for me, I believe economic strength comes from real value creation, not from how quickly dollars get passed around D.C. like hot potatoes.
As we saw the last administration, when money moves faster without an increase in actual goods and services, you just create inflation. We know that prices rise because there are more dollars chasing the same amount of stuff. People are not richer, they are just paying more for the same things. That is not growth. Thats simply the erosion of purchasing power.

The big danger of typical Keynesian money flowing is that it creates false signals. Businesses think there is booming demand and expand too fast, only to crash later when the artificial money movement dries up. We see this in all sorts of micromanaged subsidized industries. It is not true economic strength. It is bubbles and collapses on repeat.

But more importantly, there is an opportunity cost too. When the priority becomes speeding up money creation, subsidies, and flows, rather than creating real value, capital gets wasted, intentional or not. Instead of investing in innovation, production, or durable infrastructure, money gets funneled into quick-flip projects and speculative junk (like green energy and DEI.) The economy looks busy, but it is building nothing that actually lasts. Real economic strength used to be taught (at least where I went to school) as built on foundations of productivity, innovation, and the creation of real valued goods and services. Money is supposed to measure value, but Keynesians have taught entire generations to conflate money for value itself.
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@Double_R
This is why study after study shows that the most economically stimulative thing the government can spend money on is food stamps, because people who receive them will spend it quickly. The least stimulative? Tax cuts for the wealthy.

Money sitting under a mattress is still real wealth. Saving does not destroy the economy, it preserves purchasing power for future use. Fast spending like with food stamps gives a short-term sugar rush, not real growth. Real prosperity comes from creating new goods and services, not just moving money faster. Keynesian spending has gutted inner cities because food stamps do not build real, diversified economies. They create surface-level spending but no serious investment. Instead of stable and diverse industries, you get block after block of convenience stores, liquor shops, and payday loan offices, businesses that survive by draining what little disposable income exists. No manufacturing, no real job growth, no wealth creation. It is economic quicksand disguised as compassion and "economic justice" whatever TF that means... Public sector jobs paid for by government spending are proven to waste more than they build because they are not disciplined by real market forces. Wealth invested carefully by real investors and not some DC bean counter builds lasting growth. Churning money faster without creating value just fuels inflation and bubbles.

You want to answer the great mystery why income inequalty is the highest in cities run for decades by one party rule? One word. Keynesianism.
Swagnarok
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@Double_R
Economic strength is driven by the frequency at which money changes hands. That's why economists hate fear and uncertainty so much.
To cite an old joke:

Two economists were walking down the road when they came across a pile of dog poop. Economist A said to Economist B, "I'll pay you $50 if you drop to your knees and eat it." Economist B agreed, ate the dog poop, and was handed $50.
Further down the road, they came across another pile of dog poop. Now Economist B said to Economist A, "I'll pay you $50 if you drop to your knees and eat it." Economist A agreed, ate the dog poop, and was given his $50 back.

At this point, Economist A stopped and asked: "Hold on, didn't we just eat dog poop and no one was better off for the experience?"
Economist B replied: "Nonsense, we just added $100 to the GDP!"

Again, this is a joke, but one that illustrates a point. Might've posted this joke here before, I don't remember one way or another.

This is why study after study shows that the most economically stimulative thing the government can spend money on is food stamps, because people who receive them will spend it quickly. The least stimulative? Tax cuts for the wealthy.
How is an economy that encourages consumption but not investment sustainable?

Imagine, if you will, that money is taken from a company that produces goods and given to a consumer for him/her to spend.
Many foreign goods are cheaper than their American counterparts, so much of what the consumer spends goes into foreign pockets; the only Americans who get a cut are shippers and retailers. Who contribute value to the economy, sure, but in another sense don't produce anything. And, I guess, a fraction of it goes to buying American produced stuff. But only a fraction.
Meanwhile, the aforementioned company is unable to spend that money on R&D or building/maintaining company infrastructure. Or, their employees lose out on a raise to break even, which depresses consumer spending.

"But most of the tax cuts would go to company bigwigs!" you might protest. Well, no. In 2024 the "median revenue" for a Fortune 500 company stood at $42 billion, whereas in 2023 (probably not that big a difference between 2023 and 2024) the average Fortune 500 CEO had a salary of $17.7 million. First, that's just barely not a drop in the bucket, and second, as the most powerful employee of the company the CEO is best insulated from cuts to his salary even if the company is forced to make cuts elsewhere, making this a moot point.

"Most of the tax cuts go to stock buybacks!" you might say next. Which seems to be correct based on evaluation of the 2017 Trump tax cuts, but also kind of misleading. In the absence of tax cuts, stock buybacks would still be happening, since they represent an outstanding liability a company will want to take care of at some point. But now, the stock buybacks will be paid for by making cuts elsewhere in the company's budget, such as to R&D, infrastructure investments, or employee salaries. Tax cuts let the stock buybacks happen without necessitating said cuts, or at least said cuts are rendered less severe than they otherwise would be. In other words, regardless of the saved money is directly spent on, tax cuts ultimately enable companies to spend more money on useful things than they otherwise would.

This is just hand waiving. Trump has gutted the agencies who's job it is to go after institutions who engage in fraudulent activities. There is no reasonable argument that that will not result in more fraudulent activities.
The CFPB only dates back to 2011. There were (and still are) redundant bodies predating CFPB. Biden's initiatives, of course, date back to 2021 at the earliest. We've had a functional banking system for centuries beforehand. The Cato Institute has argued that the CFPB ought to be dismantled.


(Though, to date, the Trump Admin. hasn't tried to completely abolish the agency and it might continue in a downsized form with a narrower set of responsibilities.)

But if, in fact, the small sliver of fraudulent or genuinely predatory transactions within this sector increases somewhat, this isn't the only relevant factor. In 2023 the CFPB reported that platforms like PayPal and Venmo are unsafe because they lack FDIC insurance. Had Biden won a second term, this might've eventually culminated in CFPB shutting down Paypal/Venmo or requiring them to pay for expensive (and thus far unnecessary) coverage that would heavily discourage competition and useful alternative banking services from emerging. Ultimately, it is poor, underbanked demographics that would pay the price for this development if it happened.
Greyparrot
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@Swagnarok
But if, in fact, the small sliver of fraudulent or genuinely predatory transactions within this sector increases somewhat, this isn't the only relevant factor. In 2023 the CFPB reported that platforms like PayPal and Venmo are unsafe because they lack FDIC insurance. Had Biden won a second term, this might've eventually culminated in CFPB shutting down Paypal/Venmo or requiring them to pay for expensive (and thus far unnecessary) coverage that would heavily discourage competition and useful alternative banking services from emerging. Ultimately, it is poor, underbanked demographics that would pay the price for this development if it happened.

I suspect something far more sinister is going on with that. The big bank donors would love to pay Peter to shut down Paul with nobody but the tippy top benefitting from such "regulations."
(what a misnomer, unless grift and corruption are supposed to be the regular way of doing things...)
sadolite
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Bla bla bla two way street. 
Double_R
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@Greyparrot
As for me, I believe economic strength comes from real value creation, not from how quickly dollars get passed around D.C. like hot potatoes.
It's not one or the other.

As we saw the last administration, when money moves faster without an increase in actual goods and services, you just create inflation.
We saw inflation because of supply chain disruptions. Money was certainly not moving faster during this period.

But more importantly, there is an opportunity cost too. When the priority becomes speeding up money creation, subsidies, and flows, rather than creating real value
I didn't argue this so you're just having a conversation with yourself


Double_R
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@Swagnarok
Again, this is a joke, but one that illustrates a point. Might've posted this joke here before, I don't remember one way or another.
There are different versions of this, I think of the guy who gets paid to dig a hole then another gets paid to fill it back example.

You are misunderstanding my point. I'm not arguing that frequency of transactions is the only thing that matters in the economy. My argument was a targeted response to a targeted point. You argued that shutting down government agencies would be better for the economy because it meant more money in the hands of private sector businesses, I'm saying it's not that simple. When thinking of it in the sense of that money being spent right away (which will in turn pump it right back into the private sector) public agencies are far less likely to sit on that money so it is more economically stimulative.

Does that make it better? That's a whole different question. Going back to the foods stamps example, even though foods stamps are objectively more economically stimulative that doesn't mean that this is where we would rather see our tax dollars go. I bring it up only to make the point that you cannot leave consumption out of the equation, without that there's nothing for an investor to invest in.

In the absence of tax cuts, stock buybacks would still be happening, since they represent an outstanding liability a company will want to take care of at some point. But now, the stock buybacks will be paid for by making cuts elsewhere in the company's budget, such as to R&D, infrastructure investments, or employee salaries. Tax cuts let the stock buybacks happen without necessitating said cuts, or at least said cuts are rendered less severe than they otherwise would be.
That's not true. Companies pay taxes on their profits, which is what's leftover after all of this things you mentioned. Take salaries for example, a company will only pay an employee to do a job if it determines that the value the employees work brings to the company is greater than the salary they are paying said employee. If it's not then it doesn't matter what profit a company is making, they're not going to keep that employee on its payroll.

Tax cuts have no impact on this. The idea that it would only makes sense of we think of companies as charitable organizations looking for ways to ensure the families of their employees remain fed. That is not the cooperate world works.

It's also not true that stock buy backs represent a liability of some kind, all these companies are doing is increasing the value of these companies shares without any kind of innovation or investment. And of course the overwhelming bulk of those share increases go towards to rich. I would love to see us go back to when stock buy backs were highly regulated. Study's have shown that companies did things with that money that benefited the working class far more than what they're doing now.


Greyparrot
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@Double_R
When thinking of it in the sense of that money being spent right away (which will in turn pump it right back into the private sector) public agencies are far less likely to sit on that money so it is more economically stimulative.
I don't think anyone is arguing against that. What we are arguing are the things it actually stimulates. You didn't respond to my post about such things creating strips of payday loan shacks, convenience and liquor stores. Things that don't substantially lower the cost of living for the working class people.

It's the age old economic story of good intentioned centralized bean counters with proven failures.

The idea that it would only makes sense of we think of companies as charitable organizations looking for ways to ensure the families of their employees remain fed. That is not the cooperate world works.
In a way, they are charitable from the one fact that they do not have to provide a job to anyone, yet choose to do so. Jobs are rewards for service, not a fundamental right. And that’s the part a lot of people forget. The moment you start treating jobs as entitlements like government handouts instead of earned exchanges, you stop seeing the incentives that actually make them exist in the first place. Companies hire because it helps them compete, not because they’re morally obligated to create opportunities. If you remove the reward-for-service logic, you end up demanding jobs from organizations with no reason to offer them. That’s not how labor markets work. That’s how dependency on arbitrary power grows. Companies operate on natural morality, not a philosophical one, namely: that those who work for survival earn longevity and comfort.
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@ADreamOfLiberty
Imagine when people like the OP realize the entire Federal system of agencies could end, and the states would be just fine managing things for decades if not longer. In fact, they will probably be much better off.