Call of Duty: Black Ops Mafia DP1

Author: ILikePie5

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#61
Moozer325
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@Casey_Risk
Really depends on the player I guess. If someone is known for pushing Soft claims then I wouldn’t sus them but if someone is really pushing it more than usual that seems like something to watch. In general though, the people pushing it backed off quickly, so I don’t scumread anyone because of it.
#62
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@Casey_Risk
What question in 55?
That wasn’t a post by you?
#63
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@iamanabanana
I think Casey meant 57

#64
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Do you think scum would be more likely to push for or against softclaims in this case? 
Honestly going from the last game, pushing people into claiming resulted in a lot of townies feeling like they had to lie and mislynches. I don’t know much about this theme but if what people are saying is true that it is easy to narrow down claims than scum would want more claims early so they are less likely to be caught lying with them right? If they can ask 4 questions then the more information they have about what not to claim the easier it will be to ask those questions.

But on the other side, how do you pressure someone you suspect if you aren’t pursuing a claim? So idk I’m 50/50
#65
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If there are less claims on the table and ability to lie than it may be better to push claims on players bad at coming up with fake claims
#66
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@WyIted
And what happens when that player ends up being a really strong town role?
#67
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@Moozer325
I think Casey meant 57
Yes, I did, sorry.
#68
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@Casey_Risk
Fair enough. In the interest of furthering discussion, however, I'll take a page right out of your book and ask you and everyone else a question: Do you think scum would be more likely to push for or against softclaims in this case? 
As the person who was pushing for softclaims, I wouldn't say it swings either way. I was functioning under the mentality that it's better to put people in character buckets early, particularly when it's likely that scum haven't asked all their questions. It gives them information, sure, but I don't think enough to be actionable. I also think it requires everyone to do a bit of reading on their characters, which may happen anyway just from suggesting the idea.

That being said, my ignorance of the theme means I don't have a clear idea how well this kind of softclaim would narrow things down. Maybe it does more so than I thought, and so people who pushed back against the idea who have claimed to know a good deal about the theme make sense to me, even if I'm just deferring to their knowledge.

That just leaves people who don't know a lot about the theme and pushed back on softclaiming anyway, which may be a matter of how they normally respond to softclaims or something more. Will need to consider those cases more carefully.
#69
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@WyIted
If there are less claims on the table and ability to lie than it may be better to push claims on players bad at coming up with fake claims
We've done this strategy a few too many times for my liking, especially given how rarely it's done anything beneficial for scum hunting. Seems like it should be a last resort if we can think of no other reason to push anyone for a claim.

#70
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I think claiming/not claiming depends on the game. The further the games goes along the more claiming makes sense.
#71
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@iamanabanana
Is your profile picture a stock image?
#72
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@Casey_Risk
I think scum wouldn't care if they received positive responses to their mod submitted questions, but I think scum know softing is pointless if you don't bother to address the theme. Scum might push for soft claims just for any scrap of information they can muster.
#73
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What if we just dont do any discussion and just lynch somebody
#74
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@iamanabanana
And what happens when that player ends up being a really strong town role?
I don't care. I think ideally we are all vanilla and so is mafia. We shouldn't be leaning on roles.
#75
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DART games are very role heavy, why wouldn't mafia be leaning on them?  Usually they power role hunt
#76
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no one made their guesses as to who I was hinting at (plan was to read people from their guesses) so I’ll reveal.

The slight townread is in Wylted. I notice when Wylted is town he usually just says shit to see if he can get a reaction out of people and his page 1 feels no different. I notice some fluff from him but it’s not excessive so it’s not a scum tell, which helps his case. As hasty as the townread of Bullish is, it’s peak Wylted.

On the other side is Moozer. He’s had a few posts and all he can say are things that most people have already been saying/agreeing with. The was his answer to Casey’s question, but even that was a no shit sherlock. Slight scumread.

For more on Bullish. Earth lowkey made a point but I don’t think he or I scumread Bullish off it. It looks more like town laziness to me. I dont see how scum draws attention to themselves like that. Fos’ing people who don’t instantly townread you is retarded, however. I almost want to give him a slight townread for the solipsistic thinking, but my main worry is that he might be playing into all of this. Does he just do Wylted’s strats as town? I kinda expect that to be endemic to Wylted. I guess null, but it’s a very flip-floppy, unsatisfactory null.

I’ll add a slight townread on Whiteflame for his softing idea, and a tip of the hat to Casey for taking a page out of my book.

Everyone else is null for now.
#77
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@Lunatic
About finding other ways to soft to limit scum fake claims: the best idea I could come up with was a playable/nonplayable soft. Felt that exposed too much sine some of the more major characters are the playable ones. Bad idea.

I’ll just say that my character also died call it a night.
#78
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To be clear, no one else has to soft if they don’t want to. I wanted to go through with it but I don’t see a real good way to go about for this game.
#79
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Feel like Banana and Whiteflame’s replies to Casey are a little off. Hm.
#80
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Eh, I don’t think Banana understood the question properly.
#81
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Inclined to put some cautious trust in Lunatic.
#82
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eh. I’m still fine with whiteflame
#83
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Disregard. I’ll just stick with what I said in 76 for now. I’m too tired to think this through any further
#84
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@Mharman
Fair enough on the reads. I haven’t had much time to put into this game, though I’ll give my own set of reads as the day goes on. I’d flagged Moozer as well for how he responded to Casey’s question and the softclaim suggestion, both of which just seemed like efforts to stay away from positions that stand out.
#85
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Well I am suspicious of Whiteflame and Wylted. But too busy at the moment to really get into the ability to spend time trying to pursue them. With Whiteflame it’s that I feel like he’s trying to push the pace of this day phase in a way that’s “permissibly” scummy. I was already concerned with his initial suggestion that we should be careful claiming (said the same thing I did about the 4 questions mafia have) to then suggest a soft claim method that allows mafia a very easily identifiable way to narrrow down claims.

But the big thing I noticed in this game is that there aren’t a lot of noobs, and since “noob mislynches” are kind of the common scum strategy I was interested to see who would push one of either banana or moozer. Not that I think they are noobs still but that people might look at them as being the easier types to mislynch. ATM I do town read banana and while I don’t neccesarily town read moozer I think the argument for cussing him is pretty weak especially when moozers gameplay has been consistently the same in the past.

Whiteflame isn’t heavy pushing him, and he might try to spin me saying as he is, I am not. In fact I am aware that these scum yells are minor but you have to look closely under a microscope at these things with players like Whiteflame who are in general very good at playing the “coasting” game of going with the flow, while also encouraging non unique strategies that could result in getting town lynched but for what seems like logically sound reasons.

#86
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With Wylted it’s more of his thoughts and reactions towards softing and his being willing to freely claim info of his own real, I feel like he was expecting or hoping for town confirmation, when it’s been explicitly pointed out that soft claiming in general is harmful with mafia having a whipping 4 questions. Him softing early doesn’t give me a ton clear for him either, there are obscure enough characters to claim in this theme. But I do expect mafia will want information fast and early to so they can start working on POEing out soft claims. Mafia need this information worse than town does in my opinion.
#87
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Writing this all from mobile so my thoughts are a bit scattered and disorganized looking. I will say this mharman feels town to me, judging from his musings last night, I am not passing him off all together because it’s way too early for that. But I don’t initially suck read anything he’s said or done, and feel like he’s playing to his town meta convincingly enough for me to temporarily buy it at least.
#88
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Writing this all from mobile so my thoughts are a bit scattered and disorganized looking. I will say this mharman feels town to me, judging from his musings last night, I am not passing him off all together because it’s way too early for that. But I don’t initially suck read anything he’s said or done, and feel like he’s playing to his town meta convincingly enough for me to temporarily buy it at least.
#89
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Actually I just read the post where mharman is also sussing moozer, I’m gonna change my mind on that town read for now. Saw a few big posts from him and had only kind of skimmed them at the moment but now I’m a little skeptical of that read and can see that whiteflames was in part probably based off of mharman thoughts there. So that would technically make mharman the scummier of the two. Not that it exonerates whiteflame.

#90
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Anyways the chances that scum are exactly the two people that most might consider “nooby” or easily to manipulate (banana and moozer) seems low enough to me that I’m willing to almost confidently bet that scum is likely going to be one of the many vets in this game. I’m not town passing those two completely just speaking from probablility and mod psyche mostly that I feel
Like scum is gonna be a deadly pick this time.