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@WyIted
…Alright.
Call of Duty: Black Ops Mafia DP1
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209
I’m torn a bit on Whiteflames claim. His character is a bit more mysterious nor than I would have expected in a game like this, and oddly when doing research on this game his character isn’t really mentioned as being part of the escape scevem in a lot of the summary videos I watched. Even the wiki doesn’t honor of its way to mention this character. I had on my character sheet written “Viktor Reznov” as being probably one of the only characters to be likely included from the labor camp escape level, as he’s kind of Masons right hand man and organized the whole thing.
The character is accurate enough to what happened though, ultimately I don’t like the justification for strengthener, but my own role kind of is a stretch in its own justification imo so I can’t be too overly harsh on that.
Man I’m a bit torn on this claim at the moment, my current thoughts are that it’s likely fake, as strengthener is also a role that is commonly fake, and I think it’s wierd this character was included in general, but it’s not impossible that it’s legit and since it’s the only claim we’re working with so far my gut says maybe we shouldn’t push it until we have at least one more claim to judge it against. But yeah that said I’m still suspicious naturally.
Holy crap auto correct made most of that first paragraph in readable wtf
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@Lunatic
I mean, if the alternative is to lynch at random, I'm OK with being the default lynch. The Strengthener role isn't terribly likely to be consequential in this game in any case, which is part of the reason that I'd never really considered fake claiming this myself, but that's WIFOM. I don't know much about the character so I can't speak to that element of it.
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@whiteflame
I mean the character is accurate, what he does is accurate to your claim. I’ll have to consider the wifom behind “would you claim that as scum” but I agree I feel like you are a bit of a mastermind in the fake claiming department usually so behaviorally I want to town read the claim even if strengther is a go to scum fake claim.
anyways I can Unvote for now. I’d also have expected scum Whiteflame to out a bit of resistance of to claiming maybe some righteous indignation which he would be justified in. Idk how to read the easy compliance and the willingness to be voted (I mean I also played the willingness to be voted in the last game card, but I digress).
I’d like to pursue one more claim from a vet before we move on. My current thought is mharman for the same reasons of scum reading moozer, I know people seem to be towning him interestingly enough.
Vtl mharman
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@whiteflame
Just curious why did you claim your role as well when you claimed?
Official Vote Count:
Bullish (1/5) -Cerulean
Mharman (1/5) - Lunatic
“Step 1: SECURE THE KEYS?”
—Viktor Reznov
Approximately 21 hours remaining
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@Lunatic
Mainly based on what little info I had about the character and what I perceived as the townier move. I figured giving what looked like a relatively minor character as my claim wouldn’t cut it, and having my role pressed for only to reveal it as Strengthener would only make it look more sus.
Wait, why is nobody paying attention to whatever WyIted just did. I'm not really sure what to think of it, seems a bit random of a scum play so maybe it's town, but it's still weird.
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@Moozer325
You're talking about his statement that he might be able to confirm something due to my claim only to then just say "Nevermind", right?
Honestly not sure what to make of that.
Viktor Reznov is even on pies quotes. I’ll say if Reznov isn’t in the game it’s gonna be hard to buy that whiteflames was put in over Reznov lol
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@whiteflame
What direction do you wanna pursue this day phase? Asking cuz there’s one day left. ATM you are kind of my only hard scum read so while I’m pushing other options, chances are it could come back to you. I know you said you are okay with being lynched but the more I think of it the more that doesn’t sit right with me. I’d expect town Whiteflame to want to get things on track and hunt scum, not roll over on his belly and accept what he thinks is his fate. That’s what earth did last game, and you don’t strike me as that type of town player. If you were to play it that way it would make me think you were scum just hoping to get back under the radar and praying the direction turns a different way.
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@Lunatic
Why mharman's claim ? Is that just random?
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@whiteflame
@Moozer325
I was just asking pie how the strengthener would work with my role because I thought it would be great to use it on me but then he told me that it would not do anything for me if it does exist in the game.
So I was going to ask him to use it on me, but then found out it was pointless.
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@Lunatic
I don’t really like your logic on this one, mainly because you’ve gone from arguing that I’d be more defensive as scum to saying that I wouldn’t roll over as scum. I’m not exactly known for suggesting I should be any kind of priority when it comes to a lynch as scum, particularly not this early, but I guess it’s possible that I just eschewed my meta entirely. As for what I’d do as town here, I’ve already stated that I’m out of my depth on the theme and my strategy to use soft claims to get some ideas was already discarded. I don’t have much in the way of behavioral reads, so yeah, I’m not just going to pick someone else and try to divert attention when I’ve drawn it to myself with my claim.
I recognize the challenge my role presents, mainly in my inability to confirm myself and the difficulty involved in using it well on a target that is not scum. So I’m always going to be null or scumread, and that was true the moment I was pushed to claim.
As for rolling over, I would hope there’s a reason to push for more information than what I’ve provided. We don’t have a single other claim on the table and no one else apparently has any reason to pursue any kind of softclaim, and it seems like the scum hunting in this game is so far focused on using a few weak scumtells to pick targets for a claim. I wouldn’t mind that if the decision to sus certain players wasn’t treated as sus in and of itself.
So if you’re asking me how I’d prefer to proceed at this point, I’d prefer to get a couple of other claims. I’m unclear on why Mharman is your choice, but I could see a case for Bullish or Moozer right now. I’m not writing up a set of reads because I’m going to sleep, but I can give more detailed thoughts as to why tomorrow.
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@WyIted
I was just asking pie how the strengthener would work with my role because I thought it would be great to use it on me but then he told me that it would not do anything for me if it does exist in the game.So I was going to ask him to use it on me, but then found out it was pointless.
That makes more sense. Thanks for clarifying.
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@Lunatic
With Whiteflame it’s that I feel like he’s trying to push the pace of this day phase in a way that’s “permissibly” scummy. I was already concerned with his initial suggestion that we should be careful claiming (said the same thing I did about the 4 questions mafia have) to then suggest a soft claim method that allows mafia a very easily identifiable way to narrrow down claims.
Whiteflame isn't aggressive at all as scum, I'll give you that.
As for the contradiction you apparently see, I'm not reading it like that. The whole point of his idea was to find a soft that didn't reveal a whole lot of information... which would be consistent with his concern about revealing too much information.
I for one think the softing was in theory a great way to limit fake claims, considering how few characters seem to be in BO1's plot, from what I'm reading on the wiki. The only reason we can't really do it here is because there's no good way to split it.
As for the contradiction you apparently see, I'm not reading it like that. The whole point of his idea was to find a soft that didn't reveal a whole lot of information... which would be consistent with his concern about revealing too much information.
I for one think the softing was in theory a great way to limit fake claims, considering how few characters seem to be in BO1's plot, from what I'm reading on the wiki. The only reason we can't really do it here is because there's no good way to split it.
With Wylted it’s more of his thoughts and reactions towards softing and his being willing to freely claim info of his own real, I feel like he was expecting or hoping for town confirmation, when it’s been explicitly pointed out that soft claiming in general is harmful with mafia having a whipping 4 questions. Him softing early doesn’t give me a ton clear for him either, there are obscure enough characters to claim in this theme.
My townread on Wylted is based on other stuff, but on this point I have a thought: Since the softing eventually did prove itself to be a bit much (given your concerns), wouldn’t that also make it pretty effective at limiting scum’s fake claims? If so, why be so quick to offer his alive/dead status if he is scum?
If either of them (Whiteflame or Wylted) knows something we don’t, maybe, but I don’t have any idea what that could be. The only thing I can think of is one of them having a fake claim ready off the rip, but I think that’s unlikely. I think you have one point on Whiteflame in particular (the “as scummy as allowed” thing) but that’s about it. I’ll admit I didn’t care much for his answer to Casey’s question as well- but it’s hard for me to have anything but some kind of townread when the softing play looks like it follows a real thought process and limits himself pretty hard as scum.
If either of them (Whiteflame or Wylted) knows something we don’t, maybe, but I don’t have any idea what that could be. The only thing I can think of is one of them having a fake claim ready off the rip, but I think that’s unlikely. I think you have one point on Whiteflame in particular (the “as scummy as allowed” thing) but that’s about it. I’ll admit I didn’t care much for his answer to Casey’s question as well- but it’s hard for me to have anything but some kind of townread when the softing play looks like it follows a real thought process and limits himself pretty hard as scum.
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@Bullish
Personally I want to see moozer make it to lylo.
?
Is it weird to answer a question that my own "slot" asked? It's tough to say for sure, but I think scum would want more softclaims rather than less. Considering that there don't seem to be a lot of "important" characters, the space that scum has for fake claiming might be pretty tight, so getting a gist of what everyone else has would be fairly important for them.
Oh that’s interesting. So instead of limiting their fake claims by it, they could be getting a more accurate idea of their options. I honestly didn’t consider that point.
That leads to a question though: Why give an answer when asking the question? If it is a scheme, I get the sense it can only be for the benefit of a teammate who never softed and now knows a good chunk of the dead characters are taken (since we cancelled the softing and I assume the hypothetical teammate would wait for nearly all of town to soft)
That seems like a lot of effort for only half of the scum team though, so as intriguing as the idea is, I’m not convinced… especially since it would lock the other mafioso into a soft before getting an accurate idea of said options. Yeah now that I think it through, it can’t be the case.
I do think this could reveal that in the nightmare scenario that this is a ploy, Whiteflame and Wylted are unpaired.
There are probably ways of doing it that are tougher for wolves to fake their way through, though. I might take a closer look and see if there's a good way to soft without giving too much away after I finish catching up.
As someone who tried this and failed, good luck with that
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@Cerulean
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@Cerulean
This. Is null from Bullish. Isn't it.
I took it as some sort of sarcastic joke, but with whatever the hell he’s doing this DP, I just don’t know.
Im kind of starting to sus him, but I think I kinda wanna let him cook just a bit more. I just don’t know man
I notice when Wylted is town he usually just says shit to see if he can get a reaction out of people and his page 1 feels no different.And he doesn't do this as Mafia?
Not in my experience, no. I’m not sure he’s even privy to this tell of his.
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@Cerulean
Forgot to tag again
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@Lunatic
@whiteflame
The character is accurate enough to what happened though, ultimately I don’t like the justification for strengthener, but my own role kind of is a stretch in its own justification imo so I can’t be too overly harsh on that.
This I can agree with. Normally I think of a strengthener as someone who gives someone else strength, not someone who does all the heavy lifting themselves. I’m not surprised at the idea of stretched justifications here either.
Man I’m a bit torn on this claim at the moment, my current thoughts are that it’s likely fake, as strengthener is also a role that is commonly fake
I can agree with this as well.
and I think it’s wierd this character was included in general
This I dont agree with. With how few characters Pie had to work with, I can see him scraping the bottom of the barrel to try and find a character who fits a role.
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@Lunatic
So, what is your problem with my read on Moozer?
Since I posted my scumread, we just witnessed him parrot a much-stated sus on Bullish (almost feel like my take was copied and taken further) and then sus Wylted the second Whiteflame questions something Wylted did. And then there’s the whole “I think scum is inexperienc- oop, nvm” thing. I’m not inspired.
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@Cerulean
Why is Moozer your top townread? Am I just missing shit that’s just obvious to yall or something?
VTL Moozer
I wanna go for his claim
I wanna go for his claim