Call of Duty: Black Ops Mafia DP1

Author: ILikePie5

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Mharman
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@whiteflame
@iamanabanana
Feel like Banana and Whiteflame’s replies to Casey are a little off. Hm.
In the meantime, I should clarify this. I felt both’s responses were a little fencesitt-y.

In the case of Banana, I think she misunderstood the question bc she’s talking about full claims, not softing, so I feel like giving it a derp pass for the time being.

Reading Whiteflame’s again, it’s not exactly the fencesitting I wondered about when I first read it. So whatever. Like yeah he says he sees both sides, but he takes that thought and says something interesting in the third paragraph.
Mharman
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As for Luantic, hard town. I think his early interaction with Whiteflame is towny enough, and I’m somewhat confident he didn’t have a fake claim ready at that point to shut the whole softing thing down. Last game where he made a bold claim is fresh in my mind, but I just don’t think this is the game where it’s happening.
Mharman
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Have thought about Cerulean a little, but feel meh cause nothing sticks out except for the unexplained tr of Moozer. I’ll say he’s given some decent thought although I don’t agree. Casey looked ok I guess. I did give that tip of the hat earlier.

Mharman
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I’m gonna order it like this:



Lunatic
Wylted
Cerulean/Casey
Whiteflame
Banana
Bullish 
Moozer

S

I don’t like the idea of a Moozer/Bullish pairing though.

I think I’m wrong on someone and my ranking is off as a result. Def a missing variable somewhere in there.

Mharman
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I’ll figure it out later. Gn
Bullish
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Mharman missed earth on his  list, I think them 2 are scum
Earth
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@Bullish
You think a scum!Mhar would purposely leave his partner off of his reads? Is this because I kinda sussed you before?
Lunatic
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@WyIted
Why mharman's claim ? Is that just random?
It's his moozer suspicion. I came into this game keeping an eye out for people who would pressure banana/moozer, who aren't noobs, but are probably most likely to be  mislynch targets based on their limited skills/abilities. I have my own reasons for town reading the two at this point, but the chances that both would be exactly scum seem low to me. I am thinking scum is among the other 6 vets in this game, and with how slow paced the activity for day one has been, I was on the lookout specifically for anyone trying to push a ml on one of those two thinking it would be an easy lynch, as thats whats kind of been happening lately. Scum going for easy mislynches. 
Lunatic
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@whiteflame
I don’t really like your logic on this one, mainly because you’ve gone from arguing that I’d be more defensive as scum to saying that I wouldn’t roll over as scum.
I'd definitely say at this point your leaning more into the roll over category, and there is reasons why m!whiteflame rolls over in some places, but would argue as in others (as you are doing now). While initially I think I was more shocked at the idea of you claiming over one vote, your rationalization for why you would do it kind of makes sense if you are actually telling the truth here. So I am picking and deciding to find it more weird that you don't seem to have a sense of direction for the game, and even are now not mentioning the moozer read or even sticking by that one, which was kind of what led me to suspect you in the first place. 

 I’m not exactly known for suggesting I should be any kind of priority when it comes to a lynch as scum, particularly not this early, but I guess it’s possible that I just eschewed my meta entirely. As for what I’d do as town here, I’ve already stated that I’m out of my depth on the theme and my strategy to use soft claims to get some ideas was already discarded. I don’t have much in the way of behavioral reads, so yeah, I’m not just going to pick someone else and try to divert attention when I’ve drawn it to myself with my claim. 
So what happened with the moozer read? Did you change your mind on it?

As for rolling over, I would hope there’s a reason to push for more information than what I’ve provided. We don’t have a single other claim on the table and no one else apparently has any reason to pursue any kind of softclaim, and it seems like the scum hunting in this game is so far focused on using a few weak scumtells to pick targets for a claim. I wouldn’t mind that if the decision to sus certain players wasn’t treated as sus in and of itself.
Yes but you are a debater. Since when would you let me "bully" you out of a read if your read was genuine? You just typed out a paragraph to respond to me here, so your willpower to try and convince me is clearly not evaporated. When I started that pressure you could have responded to it by further justifying your read on moozer, why you think he is more likely to be scum, why maybe I am giving him too much of a noob pass or a mod psyche pass, etc etc. Instead you rolled over and claimed completely over one vote. While I am considering the reasons you mentioned town would do this, the lack of defense for your initial position made me assume you realized the read was also scummy, and was why you stopped pursuing it. In place of you stopping to pursue one read, I would have expected t!whiteflame to then prepare a new route for us to pursue, but it seems you have decided to entirely go on the defense here. I am really trying to understand this behavior from a t!whiteflame stance.

So if you’re asking me how I’d prefer to proceed at this point, I’d prefer to get a couple of other claims. I’m unclear on why Mharman is your choice, but I could see a case for Bullish or Moozer right now. I’m not writing up a set of reads because I’m going to sleep, but I can give more detailed thoughts as to why tomorrow.
I think getting at least one more targetted claim, not random would be wise. My choice for voting mharman was the same as for voting you, his choice in targeting moozer. He has since posted more reasoning for the lynch, so I will have to evaluate and see how natural it feels. I can see bullish here as he is a vet, and seems to have elected to mostly troll this game, which feels kind of unusual. 
Lunatic
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@Mharman
So, what is your problem with my read on Moozer?

Its mostly just something I expected scum would do coming in to this game, and in general moozer is one of those that tends to get mischopped early. He is a younger guy, who doesn't neccesarily have the skill or worldplay to always make the most ironclad logical response, and thus virtually anything he says can be twisted into being something nefarious, and I feel like t!mharman would be more mindful of people like that, for similar reasons as to why you townread banana in the last game. With less than 200 posts with 1 day left, I kind of was expecting mafia to make a big push play on one of her and banana, and it felt kind of convienent to me when I started noticing that was how you and whiteflame were leaning.

That said, you have provided plenty of justification for the read at this point. While I don't agree with the read itself, I can forgive some of the logic, because of who it is. I will say the lynch will always feel opportunistic though. 

unvote
Lunatic
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Yeah, I am actually okay with the bullish read people are having. He is literally getting a free pass for trolling, and has not even tried to further the game. Bullish is not a noob, and is very capable of providing coherent thoughts.

If we get one more claim, I would be okay pursuing it from him. 
Lunatic
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Day phase ends this evening btw
Lunatic
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vtl bullish
WyIted
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Just to clarify. I was just joking about bullish earlier. Having a difficult time with developing a read on anyone this game at all
Mharman
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@Earth
@Bullish
No I just forgot Earth exists lol
Mharman
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Honestly lowkey Earth is only a small step better than Moozer. I kinda respect a few points he’s made, but that’s about it.
whiteflame
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@Lunatic
@Mharman
I haven't really said anything about my justification so far and it looks like it's gotten more attention overnight. From where I'm sitting, it doesn't really fit. When we did that Phoenix Wright game a while back, I recall my partner fake claimed Strengthener using a character whose whole thing was drinking coffee, which made more sense and came after a revelation that there was a town RB, which made it more believable. In this game, the justification is relatively weak (it does talk specifically about his strength and not really empowering others, though I guess you could argue that Sergei's efforts empowered Mason - that's me reading into the justification, it's not what it literally says) and I don't have any other claims to use as a basis for the existence of a Strengthener. 

I'm not trying to make a WIFOM argument here about how I would have used the Strengthener if I was scum, I know that's BS. It would absolutely not be a first for me to come up with a weak fake claim and then try to pass it off as a poorly written PM. I'm just articulating the points of weakness in my claim because being straightforward about it is better than getting defensive over it at this point.
Mharman
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I could see him being teammates with Moozer, with Bullish, less so but it’s not as bad of a pairing as Moozer/Bullish.

I think I’d drop him below Bullish on the list.
Mharman
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Moozer train going nowhere and I think yall should consider it more.

I guess I’m down to get something more conclusive on Bullish tho

Unvote VTL Bullish

whiteflame
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@Lunatic
I'm going to restrict my responses to you to just a few points since I don't really have many points of disagreement. I can't recall a game where I've just rolled over this hard as scum, but it wouldn't be a first for me to try something new to get townread, even something risky like this.

While initially I think I was more shocked at the idea of you claiming over one vote, your rationalization for why you would do it kind of makes sense if you are actually telling the truth here.
I claimed after WyIted posted his vote, so two were on me. I'll also note that, by that point, there was already less than 24 hours left in the DP. I could have stonewalled both of you and claimed that the sus on me was virtually baseless, but doing so would ensure a relatively random lynch at the end of this DP with very little information (maybe one or two claims, which may be all we get at this point) based on limited scum tells. I've given claims like this under limited pressure before as scum so I'm not going to argue that I'd never do this in that camp. I'm not giving this as a reason to townread me, just as a reason why I'd claim at this point.

So what happened with the moozer read? Did you change your mind on it?
As you saw from the rest of my post, no, not really. He's still among the more sus players in this game for how his posts have looked so far, which is a mixture of fluff and parroting. I thought the posts from WyIted were odd as well, but they seemed a little weird to call out as sus.

Yes but you are a debater. Since when would you let me "bully" you out of a read if your read was genuine? You just typed out a paragraph to respond to me here, so your willpower to try and convince me is clearly not evaporated. When I started that pressure you could have responded to it by further justifying your read on moozer, why you think he is more likely to be scum, why maybe I am giving him too much of a noob pass or a mod psyche pass, etc etc.
I didn't use the word "bully" so I'm not sure why that's in quotes, and I haven't changed my read, so I'm not sure where that's coming from. I didn't provide a detailed read before and my responses to you didn't cover it since you didn't really mention it in the post I was responding to (not to mention you sussed me for reasons other than my read on Moozer, so I'm not sure why you'd assume I'd just place my focus there).  

While I am considering the reasons you mentioned town would do this, the lack of defense for your initial position made me assume you realized the read was also scummy, and was why you stopped pursuing it. In place of you stopping to pursue one read, I would have expected t!whiteflame to then prepare a new route for us to pursue, but it seems you have decided to entirely go on the defense here. I am really trying to understand this behavior from a t!whiteflame stance.
Luna, I'm baffled because I don't know why you think I stopped pursuing my read on Moozer. I've stated now multiple times that I'm still reading Moozer as sus, this is not my first time mentioning it after my first post saying anything about him. Just because my focus shifted to addressing the sus on me specifically doesn't mean I dropped my read. If you want to argue that I as town would always try to turn this around and pursue a scumread, I'd love to see your evidence for that from previous games. There aren't a lot where I'm sussed this early as town and I don't recall any where I just went on the attack instead. Especially this early where I only have weak reads and a claim that was bound to be sussed the moment I gave it, I would think any strong push to draw attention elsewhere, particularly to a player you've now said multiple times is likely to be a mislynch target early in this game, would be more likely to hurt my case than help it.
Mharman
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Moozer or Bullish + Earth, I guess Ceruelan, Banana, and Whiteflame are floating  around there somewhere

I do feel Whiteflane would have a sense of some obligation to defend d his claim more if he were scum.

The few things Earth has posted have been quality at least… can’t really say that for Bulliish

I would love more active posting from Banana. That’s about it.

Maybe I’ll  reorganize it like this

T

1. Lunatic
2 Wylted
3 Whiteflame
T4 Cerulean
T4 Banana
T6 Earth
T6 Bullish
8 Moozer

S

Honestly will probably abandon the scumread on Moozer if I don’t like Bullish’s claim. I don’t think they are paired
whiteflame
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I'm fine with getting a claim from either Moozer or Bullish at this point, as I said last night, so I'll join the Bullish wagon:

VTL Bullish

His behavior has been all over the place this game, jumping from saying he doesn't know much about the game and being happy he doesn't have to research it to asking WyIted if he wants to buddy to a relatively random attitude towards sussing and a pretty weak response to the claiming discussion. At the very least, I'd like a firmer idea of where he's sitting so far in this game, since he hasn't provided much insight.
whiteflame
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@Bullish
Forgot to tag.
Mharman
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Unvote cause Bullish is at L-1
Mharman
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@ILikePie5
Vote count?
Mharman
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About 10hrs left btw 
Mharman
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Bo Burnham Mafia DP1


Not a whole lot of defense of the claim itself, but rather a defense of him making the claim.
Mharman
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@whiteflame
I haven't really said anything about my justification so far and it looks like it's gotten more attention overnight. From where I'm sitting, it doesn't really fit. When we did that Phoenix Wright game a while back, I recall my partner fake claimed Strengthener using a character whose whole thing was drinking coffee, which made more sense and came after a revelation that there was a town RB, which made it more believable. In this game, the justification is relatively weak (it does talk specifically about his strength and not really empowering others, though I guess you could argue that Sergei's efforts empowered Mason - that's me reading into the justification, it's not what it literally says) and I don't have any other claims to use as a basis for the existence of a Strengthener.
This doesn’t deviate from his behavior in Bo Burnham

I'm not trying to make a WIFOM argument here about how I would have used the Strengthener if I was scum, I know that's BS. It would absolutely not be a first for me to come up with a weak fake claim and then try to pass it off as a poorly written PM. I'm just articulating the points of weakness in my claim because being straightforward about it is better than getting defensive over it at this point.
This deviates, however.
Mharman
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Yeah Whiteflame is quite far from my first choice here
Mharman
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@iamanabanana
Thoughts?