Does sitting at a table with a Nazi make someone a Nazi?

Author: Savant

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Greyparrot
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@Swagnarok
The stability of a great society demands sacrifices and allegiance beyond your local ethnic tribe or kin. The social contract falls apart when people choose  to flee instead of fight for a nation, which ensures the destruction of the tribes. Africa is a great modern example of this.

The system left behind in Africa wasn’t just a setup full of white colonizers and exploiters, it was a full structure that brought people together under one flag, something that rose above tribal divisions. The British colonies, for example, were built by various people in various localities from all over England, working toward a common goal with a shared identity under one flag. But after independence, most African nations didn’t adopt that mindset, and they never assimilated that idea. They rejected the unifying culture that built and maintained those systems and fell back into tribal lines. Without that shared purpose or national identity, there was no reason to preserve the institutions, and now Africa is run by fractured tribal warlords. Diverse for sure, but successful? I would hardly hold that African model up as a pillar for a successful society. Sadly, Canada has decided to go full on colonial guilt and has declared itself separate from the British ideas of a unified national purpose and declared itself the first nation without a unified cultural vision. It decided to become an economic zone with no allegiances. My prediction is that Canada will cease when Alberta leaves.
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@Greyparrot
Your last post explains the issue with divisive tribalist fascism and nationalism.
Shila
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My prediction is that Canada will cease when Alberta leaves.
They predicted the same ending when Quebec filed for separation. But the ruling party did get enough votes.
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@Shila
Quebec won't leave because there is nowhere for it to go, but it did get massive concessions that Alberta never got. I seriously doubt Ottawa dropping carbon tax and net zero immediately will be enough this time with an open invitation for US protection. 51% is highly likely under their system.
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@Shila
Canada brands itself as “post-national,” with no single culture, no unifying story, just diversity for its own sake and Ottawan bureaucracy to manage the paperwork. What’s left is exactly what I said: an economic zone. Citizens become residents. Patriotism becomes policy compliance. And the moment a province like Alberta stops benefiting from the deal (which is now), there’s nothing deeper keeping it loyal.
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Quebec won't leave because there is nowhere for it to go, but it did get massive concessions that Alberta never got. I seriously doubt Ottawa dropping carbon tax and net zero immediately will be enough this time with an open invitation for US protection. 51% is highly likely under their system.
Trump might discuss these possibilities with Carey’s visit.
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@Shila
That would be disastrous as Trump would demand severe concessions in exchange for withdrawing security guarantees for Alberta.

America first isn't helping Canada. And Carney is an Ottawa first guy.
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@Greyparrot
The system left behind in Africa wasn’t just a setup full of white colonizers and exploiters, it was a full structure that brought people together under one flag, something that rose above tribal divisions. The British colonies, for example, were built by various people in various localities from all over England, working toward a common goal with a shared identity under one flag. But after independence, most African nations didn’t adopt that mindset, and they never assimilated that idea. They rejected the unifying culture that built and maintained those systems and fell back into tribal lines.
I would ask if it was really necessary for the colonizers to impose large multi-ethnic states, seeing how Europe is politically fractured but also prosperous. If each major African nation had its own country just for them, would the average citizen thereof have taken a personal stake in its success? Well, admittedly, there are sub-ethnic tribes so maybe not always, but as a counterpoint I would look to Rwanda.

When Westerners think of Rwanda, we think of the 1994 genocide. But what isn't as well known is that the Tutsis actually won the civil war and are ruling the country today under the banner of the Rwandan Patriotic Front, a civic nationalist party. Rwanda's Tutsis are a minority in a sea of Hutus who drool at the thought of mass murdering them again and would do so if the government ever collapsed, so the Tutsis know they must stick together no matter what. As a result, they've built a cohesive political system. Rwanda today, despite having been decimated by the events of 1994, is much wealthier than neighboring Burundi (a country also comprised of Hutus and Tutsis), close to the economic level of neighboring Uganda and Tanzania, and one of the fastest growing economies in the world and the region. Since the late '90s they've fought several wars on the soil of the Democratic Republic of the Congo, a country that should absolutely dwarf them on every conceivable level, and their army has enjoyed an outstanding degree of military success there.

I'm going to be honest here: the Tutsis of Rwanda are a Sub-Saharan African peoples who genuinely have my respect for what they've accomplished.