Jet Fighters Mafia - DP2

Author: Bullish
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#241
Lunatic
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@WyIted
I’m very been trying and failing to convince people Whiteflame is town for two days now, and you only entertain the idea that he is town when I propose a plan that suggests you being lynched… very interesting. It’s convienent that this plan allows you to live and doesn’t provide the same end game scenario that gives everyone a win win like mine does lol.

If people wanted to pass on lynching Whiteflame and go straight for Wylted that would be preferred, would get us to the endgame fastest because I am fairly confident that Whiteflame is town, but good luck selling pie and mharman on that.
#242
Mharman
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I’m trying to figure out the purposes of some of these roles in the setup.
#243
ILikePie5
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@Lunatic
If people wanted to pass on lynching Whiteflame and go straight for Wylted that would be preferred, would get us to the endgame fastest because I am fairly confident that Whiteflame is town, but good luck selling pie and mharman on that.
I think I’m sold on it tbh. Only scenario where we lose is if there’s a scum Vig, which doesn’t make sense
#244
Lunatic
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@ILikePie5
Hmmm if Whiteflame is indeed town, then we can use the RB to our advantage. Maybe we change the order and lynch Wylted today. Whiteflame blocks Banana/Lunatic. Mafia are forced to NK me/Moozer but most likely me. Wylted-Whiteflame-Lunatic. We find out if Whiteflame is telling the truth by lynching him tomorrow. If there is no NK tonight, we still gain information.
This plan is fine to if you are willing to let Whiteflame live another day.. I’m fairly confident he is town, but in the off chance I’m wrong we will find out by his night actions success. 
#245
Lunatic
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@ILikePie5
Okay we can still confirm bananas role today then and Whiteflame can roleblock and confirm me and n the off chance the game doesn’t just end after we lynch Wylted.

#246
Lunatic
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@WyIted
Moozer is more likely to be scum than banana
Pie copped moozer innocent, and we already lynched the godfather… both pie and moozer can’t be lying so…. How does that logic work?

#247
Mharman
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I see a lot of people talking about the utility of lynching Whiteflame… it almost feels like multiple people have secretly concluded he’s town, despite him being widely scumread. Maybe it’s all in prudence, but it’s a little off-putting.

Let’s keep it simple. We either think he’s scum, or we think he’s town. Let that be what determines our lynch; I wouldn’t even bother with talks of utility.
#248
iamanabanana
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@ILikePie5
Are you a 1x Double Voter or permanent double voter?
Permanent. My vote will always count as two.
#249
Mharman
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Guaranteed town 

Mharman
Pie
Moozer

Most likely town

Wylted
Lunatic
Banana

Most likely scum

Whiteflame

Not a ranking btw





#250
Lunatic
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@Mharman
I see a lot of people talking about the utility of lynching Whiteflame… it almost feels like multiple people have secretly concluded he’s town, despite him being widely scumread. Maybe it’s all in prudence, but it’s a little off-putting.
Let’s keep it simple. We either think he’s scum, or we think he’s town. Let that be what determines our lynch; I wouldn’t even bother with talks of utility.
by widely scum read do you mean literally just you and pie? I’ve been arguing that Whiteflame was innocent to deaf ears for two day phases now. The only argument is that “he has a scummy role” which is a horrible argument btw.

I’m honestly surprised you scum read him.

#251
Mharman
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@Lunatic
I am at least considering what you’re saying.

#252
Lunatic
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@Mharman
What do you think about the suggested plan of lynching Wylted and if the game doesn’t end, lynching Whiteflame? Basically no matter what we end up with me / banana / and you in the endgame, if banana is scum she auto wins, otherwise if we make it that far and the game is still going you will both know I am confirmed scum, there is literally no way scum wins this. I don’t believe bullish would make a scum double voter that doesn’t go away in lylo, so pretty sure the game is solved by lynching Wylted and Whiteflame, hopefully it ends after lynching Wylted. But either way we have a path to success here.
#253
whiteflame
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I'll go with whatever plan the majority supports at this point. I didn't recall that Pie used his role on Moozer, so yeah, that would put him in the likely town camp.
#254
Mharman
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@Lunatic
I’ll think more about that later, for now, I will say you have a good point on Banana.

I still believe her claim. If she’s scum it’d have to be with Thst2 as a teammate, at which point they shouldn’t even know about the existence of F-16_Fighting_Falcon. I credited him in the archives thread, but I doubt either of them have read it, let alone noticed his username displayed there.

and finally, doublevoter is a good way to give town a fighting chance, should I hide behind the wrong person

Side note: we have no claimed protectives again
#255
Lunatic
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Gonna throw my vote on Wylted then. This should work out to being a win if we follow this through, but hoping it just ends after this lynch.

Vtl Wylted.
#256
Mharman
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Out of Wylted/Whiteflame/Lunatic/Banana, Banana is the towniest for sure.

I’m down to say she’s not on the table, despite having no town confirmation. Although the idea that scum double voter would be bastard might just be enough to say that she is. Her behavior looks clean.
#257
Mharman
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I’ll fully reevaluate Whiteflame/Lunatic/Wylted in a couple hours.
#258
Lunatic
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@whiteflame
Btw I noticed you say you scum read me. It’s not like I expected you to town confirm me for defending you, but I’m really curious what you think my motivation as scum would be for doing it, because my stance hasn’t changed and I could easily waffle my read here to take advantage of a mislynch if I was scum lol
#259
Lunatic
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I’m fully happy to respond to any scum read on me. I get being in the PoE but so far the only person who has stated an actual behavioral read was Wylted who doesn’t even remember what he is supposedly scum reading me for but convienently only does so after I state my suspicions on him. And Whiteflame who alluded to scum reading me but didn’t provide an actual reason why.
#260
ILikePie5
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@Mharman
I’ll think more about that later, for now, I will say you have a good point on Banana.

I still believe her claim. If she’s scum it’d have to be with Thst2 as a teammate, at which point they shouldn’t even know about the existence of F-16_Fighting_Falcon. I credited him in the archives thread, but I doubt either of them have read it, let alone noticed his username displayed there.

and finally, doublevoter is a good way to give town a fighting chance, should I hide behind the wrong person

Side note: we have no claimed protectives again
I agree with this analysis
#261
ILikePie5
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My only concern is if there’s a scum vigilante. It would make more sense. I am the most concerned about Lunatic being that role and banking on a LYLO situation but at the very least WF should be able to RB him
#262
ILikePie5
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Banana at the very least can confirm her role, and she’s the most townie out of Luna, Wylted, Whiteflame, Banana
#263
ILikePie5
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@Bullish
Are there any roles in the list where if Player A who is the roleblocker uses their action on Player B, player B could still use their action?

#264
whiteflame
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@Lunatic
Btw I noticed you say you scum read me. It’s not like I expected you to town confirm me for defending you, but I’m really curious what you think my motivation as scum would be for doing it, because my stance hasn’t changed and I could easily waffle my read here to take advantage of a mislynch if I was scum lol
I can't say I'm scumreading anyone all that clearly at this point, I'm mainly just functioning based on PoE. If we're talking purely behavior, I have no reason to scumread you at all, but I'm reevaluating my reads based on the information we have and I was pretty convinced last game that Mharman was town based chiefly on his behavior. That's made me skittish about my behavioral reads.

#265
Lunatic
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@whiteflame
Fair enough 
#266
WyIted
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@ILikePie5
Ya this is setting off alarm bells for me too
Maybe it should for you but for lunatic to think in a LYLO situation I should vote for him over banana is retarded. That's essentially what I said I would do and it's weird for him to think me preferring tp lynch banana over him is somehow bad in LYLO. Whether he thinks I am scum or not he should be certain of his own affiliation and prefer I vote banana
#267
Lunatic
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@ILikePie5
My only concern is if there’s a scum vigilante. It would make more sense. I am the most concerned about Lunatic being that role and banking on a LYLO situation but at the very least WF should be able to RB him
That would be pretty troll of bullish to put that in after you pointed out how busted it was lol
#268
WyIted
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@Lunatic
Pie copped moozer innocent
I forgot about that. Yeah he is 100% town then
#269
WyIted
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I am okay being lynched prior to lunatic but that lynch order is obviously retarded. Like anyone other than lunatic proposing that lynch order is definitely stupid but I am down. It's interesting that I won't die on this hill and refuse a self vote but lunatic would avoid a self vote. .

A self vote for me wouldn't be a play against my wincon, but could he be scum and it plays against his wincon so he actually cares more than I do about the lynch order?

I keep shifting back and forth on him but I think Lunatic is scum if whiteflame isn't. However we have to make a decision and keeping whiteflame alive makes it less likely town loses in the office chance banana is scum

VTL Wylted
#270
WyIted
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So if me white flame or lunatic is scum than town wins no matter who goes first 

If potential scum is me whiteflame lunatic and banana then lynching me or lunatic or banana first extends the game and gives town more opportunities to win