I was reading a study bible and it brought to my attention that Jewish scholars before Jesus already talked about most of the concepts that most people think are Jesus's original ideas.
Jesus didn't actually come up with 90% of his ideas
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@FishChaser
Other religions before had some similar ideas too. But what was not similar is the united system of those ideas put in place. If you think about it, Christianity offered combined solutions which other religions didnt have.
1. Forgiveness
Very crucial. It meant that evil actions of the past didnt mean you cant become better now.
2. Extending religion to non-Jews
It is clear that if it wasnt for this, maybe Christianity wouldnt even exist.
3. Hell, Heaven for deeds
While it is true that many religions had concept of afterlife, it was actually a lot different. In Ancient Egypt, you just buy your way into afterlife with gold. In Ancient Greece, all souls go to Underworld. In Nordic mythology, you go to heaven if you die in battle. In Judaism, the idea of Hell is actually unknown. Now, there are implications of it. For example, Old Testament says that God will reject Israel if they dont repent. That is one type of Hell. But when it comes to Christianity, it developed such idea completely there. It set a much more clear standards on who goes to Hell and who goes to Heaven. Before Christianity, there were some guessings, but it wasnt united in system where deeds and forgiveness are counted.
4. System of spreading message
This system was unique to Christianity back then. While there were many other religions, they didnt successfully spread their message in every area of the world, as most didnt even have such system.
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@TheGreatSunGod
If Jesus was literally God you would think he would be able to come up with original ideas.
The concept of forgiveness and repentance is present all throughout the OT.
Christianity actually makes it harder for non-jews to be saved. The noahide laws are possible to get right by accident even when you don't know they are the criteria to get into heaven. If Christianity is true only people who are the right religion, getting sacraments from the right church and following 100 rules can be saved. It does make sense however that if Judaism was true the gentiles would need a religion also.
One thing about Jesus that I just noticed is that he is very extreme, in fact being extreme is his main gimmick. It's fitting then that his version of afterlife would be pure polarization where you get either infinite pure suffering or infinite pure bliss and nothing in between. This isn't how the vast majority of Jews saw it though. Jesus also likes to use shocking language to make his point and is often hyperbolic. Jesus took scholars saying things like "if you have murderous thoughts/feeling they are also sinful because they make you more likely to break the murder commandment" and turned it into "if you get angry at someone you're going to hell".
Your last point is true, and it's weird that Christianity spread so much even though there is evidence of it being false. Maybe it was so successful because it allowed for a cult of personality to form around a very tangible and bold character such as Jesus.
The concept of forgiveness and repentance is present all throughout the OT.
Christianity actually makes it harder for non-jews to be saved. The noahide laws are possible to get right by accident even when you don't know they are the criteria to get into heaven. If Christianity is true only people who are the right religion, getting sacraments from the right church and following 100 rules can be saved. It does make sense however that if Judaism was true the gentiles would need a religion also.
One thing about Jesus that I just noticed is that he is very extreme, in fact being extreme is his main gimmick. It's fitting then that his version of afterlife would be pure polarization where you get either infinite pure suffering or infinite pure bliss and nothing in between. This isn't how the vast majority of Jews saw it though. Jesus also likes to use shocking language to make his point and is often hyperbolic. Jesus took scholars saying things like "if you have murderous thoughts/feeling they are also sinful because they make you more likely to break the murder commandment" and turned it into "if you get angry at someone you're going to hell".
Your last point is true, and it's weird that Christianity spread so much even though there is evidence of it being false. Maybe it was so successful because it allowed for a cult of personality to form around a very tangible and bold character such as Jesus.
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@FishChaser
If Jesus was literally God you would think he would be able to come up with original ideas.
No one else managed to spread Jewish religion to whole world there.
The concept of forgiveness and repentance is present all throughout the OT.
Yes, but not really as a way of reaching Heaven now. And I dont think it was ever mentioned that all sins can be forgiven but one.
Christianity actually makes it harder for non-jews to be saved.
Before Christianity, almost all non-Jews were polytheists there.
The noahide laws are possible to get right by accident even when you don't know they are the criteria to get into heaven.
Old Testament didnt really have heaven for non-Jews. Even for Jews, it was questionable.
If Christianity is true only people who are the right religion, getting sacraments from the right church and following 100 rules can be saved.
There is a verse which says that those of different religions are judged by their hearts alone.
One thing about Jesus that I just noticed is that he is very extreme, in fact being extreme is his main gimmick. It's fitting then that his version of afterlife would be pure polarization where you get either infinite pure suffering or infinite pure bliss and nothing in between.
This isnt true, dude. Jesus clearly spoke of many degrees of punishments and rewards. Some having it easier than others in punishment.
This isn't how the vast majority of Jews saw it though. Jesus also likes to use shocking language to make his point and is often hyperbolic. Jesus took scholars saying things like "if you have murderous thoughts/feeling they are also sinful because they make you more likely to break the murder commandment" and turned it into "if you get angry at someone you're going to hell".
Anger often leads to violence, yes. I dont think everyone who gets angry goes to Hell forever then. Plus, Hell is more like cleaning from sins.
Your last point is true, and it's weird that Christianity spread so much even though there is evidence of it being false. Maybe it was so successful because it allowed for a cult of personality to form around a very tangible and bold character such as Jesus.
If it wasnt for Christianity, most world would be either polytheism or islam, depending on if islam would even appear.
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@Barney
I asked on DM, now I ask here, can I post to threads the other makes, if I do not directly address the user?
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@FishChaser
I was reading a study bible and it brought to my attention that Jewish scholars before Jesus already talked about most of the concepts that most people think are Jesus's original ideas.
Jesus quoted from at least 13 different books in the Old Testament, with the most frequent being the Books of Psalms and Isaiah, and also from Exodus, Deuteronomy, according to Passion to Know More. Additionally, he cited passages from several other prophets, according to Bible Central.
See also the book of enoch and Luke 4:18.
Yes, the Bible describes Jesus as the one who came to fulfill the promises made by God. This includes fulfilling the Law and the Prophets, as well as the prophecies about the Messiah. Jesus is the central figure in the Christian understanding of how God's promises are realized, offering salvation and a new covenant.
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@TheGreatSunGod
Remember that two weeks ago you were a Satanist. Everything you're saying is due to the influence of a certain member and aren't even your own thoughts.
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@FishChaser
Remember that two weeks ago you were a Satanist. Everything you're saying is due to the influence of a certain member and aren't even your own thoughts.
I dont think so. I just cant justify sexual immorality. Its probably a flaw of Satanism that it leads people into thinking that sexual sins are good. I think its trying too hard to be complete opposite of Christianity, which it shouldnt be. Other than masturbation or no-divorce marriage, all sexual sins lead to some great problems. Divorce harms children of parents greatly. Going around and randomly having sex eventually results in diseases. There is just no way to justify what some other Satanists support. Even in ancient Greece, people had some standards. Anyone who thinks adultery is any okay just doesnt understand what would happen in society full of it. With that area of Satanism, I strongly disagree. Woman having sex with multiple men at the same time is very corrupt, but such thing was supported by some famous Satanists before. There is this idea that you get rewarded for sins, but I dont think that can be true. Such idea is absurd. There are parts of Satanism which are beneficial to a person, but not all people can practice Satanism properly. Many books just guide people into sexual immorality which will mess them up eventually. I would say masturbation is safe, but any book recommending sex with multiple partners is greatly misleading there, as is any book which considers that having many partners throughout life is okay. Somehow they are focused on this very specific sin which I dont really understand.
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@TheGreatSunGod
We mostly agree on sexual morality but I think catholicism goes to far putting masturbation on par with murder and saying that even in marriage sex should only be for reproduction.
Btw how are your chickens doing? I haven't heard about them in a while.
Btw how are your chickens doing? I haven't heard about them in a while.
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@FishChaser
We mostly agree on sexual morality but I think catholicism goes to far putting masturbation on par with murder and saying that even in marriage sex should only be for reproduction.
Masturbation is probably okay. If person didnt masturbate, he would just have wet dreams, which then makes a mess in the underwear. There is not much choice there, and masturbation isnt harmful. Usually isnt.
Btw how are your chickens doing? I haven't heard about them in a while.
Chickens are fine now. I have 16 of them currently. Not much news there. They eat wheat, corn, insects, soil and grass. Produce eggs. As usual.
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@TheGreatSunGod
I will pray that your farm does well.
St. Isidore the Laborer is the intercessor for this prayer.
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@AdaptableRatman
Thank you.
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@TheGreatSunGod
There are parts of Satanism which are beneficial to a person, but not all people can practice Satanism properly.
Even Satanism demands perfection.
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@FishChaser
It says Adam and Eve ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, and God cursed them. Foolish Jews choose to ignore this. There is no chapter more important in the Bible than Genesis. Jews cannot see what is in the Bible. They are too busy reading the Talmud, or forsaking God altogether.
To overcome a curse, you need salvation. Jesus said you find salvation through faith and sacrifice. You can deny you are cursed and doomed to death without salvation, but God says otherwise.
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@AdaptableRatman
I asked on DM, now I ask here, can I post to threads the other makes, if I do not directly address the user?
It’s ok so long as it’s to engage with the topic, and not the user. Of course even then it should be handled with care (no baiting them, etc.)
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@yachilviveyachali
It's funny how Judaism was true for the first 2000 years but lacked this crucial element then became wrong and stupid as soon as Jesus arrived with something supposedly better. Maybe there is more salvation in Judaism than you think. After all, the law was actually a covenant of grace the whole time. God forgives people many times in the OT despite them being "under the law".
If you haven't learned about the Tanakh from a Hebrew perspective you're probably superimposing NT ideas on to it without knowing it in it's original context. Hell, Christians even superimpose modern english interpretations on to the greek of the NT. Your knowledge of the bible is a false interpretation of a false interpretation.
If you haven't learned about the Tanakh from a Hebrew perspective you're probably superimposing NT ideas on to it without knowing it in it's original context. Hell, Christians even superimpose modern english interpretations on to the greek of the NT. Your knowledge of the bible is a false interpretation of a false interpretation.
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@FishChaser
It's funny how Judaism was true for the first 2000 years but lacked this crucial element then became wrong and stupid as soon as Jesus arrived with something supposedly better. Maybe there is more salvation in Judaism than you think. After all, the law was actually a covenant of grace the whole time. God forgives people many times in the OT despite them being "under the law".
The Jews were punished by God more than any other race. Throughout the Bible God had to send the Jews prophets to stir them away from evil.the Jews were exiled from their home country .
How many times have the Jews been exiled from Israel?
They experienced two exiles: after the destruction of the first temple, in the 6th century BC, and of the second temple, in 70 AD. Two thousand years of wandering brought the Jews to Yemen, Morocco, Spain, Germany, Poland and deep into Russia.
Antisemitism began over 3000 years ago and remains active to this day.
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@Shila
A tradition you seem to be proudly upholding.
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@FishChaser
A tradition you seem to be proudly upholding.
Pissing off your neighbours is what brought about antisemitism. The Jews continue to follow the tradition of Judaism. See what they are doing to their Palestinian neighbours.
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@FishChaser
It's funny how Judaism was true for the first 2000 years but lacked this crucial element then became wrong and stupid as soon as Jesus arrived with something supposedly better.
Jesus was a Jew who came to fulfill the law. What new ideas did he come up with? Forgiveness, faith, sacrifice, and salvation? That these are foreign to you is why God had to come.
Maybe there is more salvation in Judaism than you think. After all, the law was actually a covenant of grace the whole time. God forgives people many times in the OT despite them being "under the law".
God does not want to keep forgiving us. He wants us to “sin no more.” God is more than a priest you speak with to confess a sin. He is the Creator, the Father.
If you haven't learned about the Tanakh from a Hebrew perspective you're probably superimposing NT ideas on to it without knowing it in it's original context. Hell, Christians even superimpose modern english interpretations on to the greek of the NT. Your knowledge of the bible is a false interpretation of a false interpretation.
My family is Jewish. I know what the Tanakh says. Do you?
What do Christians have wrong about the Old and New Testaments?
When is the messiah coming? What do you want him to do?
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@yachilviveyachali
Jesus was a Jew who came to fulfill the law. What new ideas did he come up with? Forgiveness, faith, sacrifice, and salvation? That these are foreign to you is why God had to come.God does not want to keep forgiving us. He wants us to “sin no more.” God is more than a priest you speak with to confess a sin. He is the Creator, the Father.My family is Jewish. I know what the Tanakh says. Do you?What do Christians have wrong about the Old and New Testaments?When is the messiah coming? What do you want him to do?
Did God make a mistake picking the Jews to set an example to the rest of the world.
It was the jews who shouted
Matthew 27:16-26,Mark 15:7-15,Luke 23:18-25,John 18:40
Wanting to release Jesus, Pilate appealed to them again. 21 But they kept shouting, “Crucify him! Crucify him
The idea of God making a mistake by "picking" the Jews as his chosen people is a complex theological question with varying interpretations. While some might interpret this as a mistake based on the apparent unfaithfulness and history of the Israelites, others argue that God's choice was not about their merit but about fulfilling a promise and using them as a vehicle to reveal His character and Word to the world.
Here's a more detailed look at the different perspectives:
Arguments suggesting a "mistake":
- Unfaithfulness and Sin:Throughout the Old Testament, the Israelites are depicted as repeatedly breaking their covenant with God and being unfaithful to Him. Some might argue that God's choice was flawed because it led to a people who often did not live up to their calling.
- Perceived Lack of Merit:The Israelites were not inherently chosen for their good character or perfect behavior. Instead, God chose them through Abraham, and their lineage was not always marked by faithfulness or obedience.
Arguments against a "mistake":
- Fulfilling a Promise:God made a promise to Abraham and his descendants, and the Israelites are the fulfillment of that promise.This promise was not based on their merit but on God's faithfulness and desire to bless all nations through Abraham's seed, which included Jesus Christ.
- God's Purpose:God chose the Israelites to be a "people sacred to the Lord" and to be a light to the nations. Even with their shortcomings, God used them to reflect His character and deliver His Word to the world.
- God's Sovereignty:God is not bound by human reasoning or expectations.He has the freedom to choose whom He will and to work through imperfect people to accomplish His purposes.
- A Means to an End:God's choice of the Israelites was not about their inherent worthiness but about His plan for salvation to be extended to all people through the Messiah who would come from their lineage
The Holocaust was an attempt to correct God’s mistake.
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@Shila
The failings of the Jews are testament to the sinful and disobedient nature of man. Abraham was a man who lived among the
Chaldeans in Mesopotamia. I suppose he was one. He was a pagan like the rest of them. Or maybe he was not a pagan? What could God have seen in him? God knows what we do not know. He knew Abraham would be faithful.
For every faithful Jewish servant, is a corrupted Jew. By the time Jesus came, a great many were corrupted.
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@yachilviveyachali
The failings of the Jews are testament to the sinful and disobedient nature of man. Abraham was a man who lived among theChaldeans in Mesopotamia. I suppose he was one. He was a pagan like the rest of them. Or maybe he was not a pagan? What could God have seen in him? God knows what we do not know. He knew Abraham would be faithful.For every faithful Jewish servant, is a corrupted Jew. By the time Jesus came, a great many were corrupted.
The covenant that God made with Abraham was the covenant by Circumcision. For a piece of Jewish foreskin God would bless the Jewish race. But the covenant did not include the rest of the body. Which is why we see persecution like the Holocaust faced by the Jews.