Corrupt billionaires aren't the only parasites

Author: ADreamOfLiberty

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#1
ADreamOfLiberty
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https://youtu.be/mLBHjnF1_fs?t=292

Government doesn't just provide for corrupt megacorps through subsidies, contracts, and regulatory exemption. It also creates a vast class of small time parasites (in the private sector). These people are in moral principle no different from those ultra wealthy moochers.
#2
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@ADreamOfLiberty
There is a way in which economy degrades by increasing many unproductive elements.

This happens in Capitalism too, but somewhat less.

For example, more labor being wasted on advertising than ever. More labor being wasted on producing things which have no real use, but people just like them a lot.

You see in many poor countries that they actually have plenty of buisnesses, but these buisnesses arent producing food or houses or anything really. Fortune teller comes to mind now. People are being paid to produce nothing literally. They are being paid for mere mental effect. Same with singers too.

Poor and non-productive countries are just producing too much useless stuff.
#3
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@ADreamOfLiberty
Well oje moral principle is extent of damage and desperation in the individual. Furthermore there is a concept in morality known as intent and also the extent of capacity to not commit.

If a poorer person steals the same thing a richer does, it generally is less bad but the exception is if the richer lives in a place or has a life outside their ci trol (disability, needs specific foods due to allergy+intolerance etc) and especially if he/she even has other dependents.

You are trying to compare one mentally unwell theif (even if she faked one or more of the mental disorders mentioned, she likely actually has a mental disorder or 2 driving her to steal).

In Saudi she could get hand cut off depending on judge leniency and would be arrested regardless for dressing that way and speaking up to a male officer as a woman.

The Saudis will be happy to have you until they find out about your dog and you.
#4
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The Saudis will be happy to have you until they find out about your dog and you.
It is not a generally approved relationship. Maybe he lives somewhere where its actually legal.
#5
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@TheGreatSunGod
Narrated Ibn 'Abbas: That the Messenger of Allah said: "Whomever you see having relations with an animal then kill him and kill animal." So it was said to Ibn 'Abbas: "What is the case of the animal?" He said: "I did not hear anything from the Messenger of Allah about this, but I see that the Messenger of Allah disliked eating its meat or using it, due to the fact that such a (heinous) thing has been done with that animal."

Just the tiniest bit different punishment though.

Thankfully for him, four eyewitnesses to him doing it would be required. Oh the most merciful... Right.
#6
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@ADreamOfLiberty
Jealousy is what it is.

Every one is born with similar potential and opportunity. (Though I generalise with regard to "western" societies).

It's just that most people don't or can't realise their full economic potential, and then spend the rest of their lives running down and name calling  those that do.

As long as you have a roof over your head, a safe bed to sleep in and food on the table, then the 24 hours of a billionaires day is going to be pretty much the same as yours.

Wake up, eat, piss, shit, strive to do something then back to sleep again...And repeat...And then become decrepit and eventually die.

Excessive amounts of money in the bank, does not mean immortality, and neither does it guarantee contentment.

It just means you can buy all sorts of unnecessary gadgets to play with occasionally, and eventually get bored with.
#7
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@zedvictor4
As long as you have a roof over your head, a safe bed to sleep in and food on the table
Those are not enough.

#8
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@TheGreatSunGod
Poor and non-productive countries are just producing too much useless stuff.

one man's useless production is another man's useful entertainment. After the  2000 election [Bush/Gore] effectively decided by SCOTUS for Bush, and all the Florida chads controversy, I made small plastic pouches about 4" x 4" with my heat sealer. Each pouch contained a few small-size hole punches of white card stock and  a note inside: "Official Dehydrated Florida Chads. just add water."  Sold them by internet orders for $1.49 each,  and made about $300 for about $25 production/shipping cost in a standard business envelope.
#9
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@TheGreatSunGod
Don't insult by quoting out of context.
#10
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@zedvictor4
Don't insult by quoting out of context
No.

#11
MayCaesar
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It seems to me that ultimately morality of someone's economical behavior is determined not by how wealthy they get, but by the relationship between them and their partners. When I buy a Tesla, I voluntarily choose to part with a large amount of money, because the value of the Tesla for me is higher than the value of keeping that money in the bank or spending it on something else - and Elon Musk delivers my Tesla as promised and gets richer, for he values the profit he gets from his stocks growing higher than he values one of his thousands of Tesla's. If Elon Musk gets rich by doing this, then he is not doing anything wrong in my book. It is another matter when Elon Musk gets into the government and uses his friendship with Trump to push through proposals that harm competitors of Tesla and advantage Tesla and Musk personally.

But a better question is this: what is the source of the latter? Is it that billionaires are somehow intrinsically corrupt and inevitably use their money to buy up political power? I do not see how this can be the case: even if all billionaires were intrinsically corrupt, in a good political system any attempt by them to bribe someone would result in their incarceration.

A more plausible explanation was provided by Friedrich Hayek in his "Road to Serfdom". The source is the fact that the government is the only organization in the country that has a legal power to coerce individuals. This is where corruption originates. There is no corruption on a free market where all transactions are voluntary and anyone can walk away from an interaction they dislike. But when the system is more akin to a "king of the hill" game where whoever gets into this exclusive club of political players gets to force others into interactions they do not want to partake in - and have the law on their side - then everyone who has enough resources will do their best to befriend the king, or, even better, take his place.

Which is why the economy should be separated from the government. It should be impossible to buy any political favors legally, and for that, in turn, it is essential that the government is extremely limited. When the government is nothing more than a guardsman against coercion and violence, then there is absolutely nothing to gain for me or anyone else from buying "political credit". Being in the government actually would be more of a burden than an advantage, and only people who genuinely wanted to do good in the society - at the expense of their time and money - would be interested in pursuing a political career or proactively interacting with the government.

30 days later

#12
FLRW
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@ADreamOfLiberty

   P Diddy ?
#13
Debunker
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@MayCaesar
You need to stop paying taxes to separate the government from the economy.
#14
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@Debunker
Money is a commodity, and the accumulation thereof, is a valid skill and profession.

Social taxation is a separate issue, wherein all members contribute towards the running of collective infrastructure and services.

Taxation is usually the remit of a social institution overseen by government.


If A. is a more skilful and proficient money-maker than B.

Why should A. necessarily contribute more to the social fund?

Especially if B. is more likely to demand more in social support.


As I suggested previously.

Jealousy and resentment of intellectual and financial success, is the remit of the financially and intellectually unsuccessful.
#15
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@zedvictor4
Money is a commodity, and the accumulation thereof, is a valid skill and profession.
There is nothing inherently skillful about taxes and extortion.

Jealousy and resentment of intellectual and financial success, is the remit of the financially and intellectually unsuccessful.
So tell your government to stop being jealous of your success. We all know it is both financially and intellectually unsuccessful.
#16
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@Debunker
You need to stop paying taxes to separate the government from the economy.
Abolition of taxes is just one thing that needs to be done; there are more. I would argue that taxes are not even as hurtful to people as things like licensing laws, minimum wage laws, zoning laws, etc. I would certainly prefer a flat income tax of 50% and no other intervention from the government whatsoever, over zero tax and all the current regulations being held in place.
#17
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@Debunker
So Debunker, what's the alternative to government.

Answer...Another government, that needs to raise taxes in order to pay for social infrastructure and services.

Social infrastructure and services that you clearly take for granted.


Yep it's always cool to be a radical anti-establishment firebrand.
#18
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@zedvictor4
The alternative to big government is obvious. Nobody cares about 1 bee. A thousand bees are a big problem.

Social infrastructure and services that you clearly take for granted.
I don't know where you live, but our roads are terrible, as well as every other service. Granted isn't the word I would use. Extortion  is closer.
#19
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@Debunker
So in the UK we have approximately 36 million vehicles plus agricultural machinery, all demanding to get from A to B as fast and as safely as possible.

It is logistically and financially impossible to provide and maintain 260000 miles of public roads in a constant state of perfection.

Annual budget is approximately £1.2 billion, backlog is approximately £16 billion, so that roughly equates to a 15 year backlog in road maintenance.

And roads are but one requirement of an overdemanding population.



So Debunker instead of just critical analysis, what is your perfect masterplan for how a Nations infrastructure and services can be paid for.

And who is going to do all this work.

Well let's retrain the millions of idle dorks that sit on their backsides all day complaining...(Oops, just increased the budget). Assuming that we can detach them from their smartphones and get them to pay attention for more than a second.

As for getting their hands dirty...Does the Pope shit golden eggs.
#20
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@zedvictor4
It is logistically and financially impossible to provide and maintain 260000 miles of public roads in a constant state of perfection.
In the real world, quality of service increases when the supplier is worried about the lack of it. That can only happen when extortion goes the other way.
#21
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When a billionaire dies all his assets should be sold off and given to everyone that lives in his state.
#22
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@FLRW
And 9 out of 10 of them will piss it up the wall.

Not sure if you're familiar with this quaint British phrase.
#23
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@Debunker
Extorted seems to be your buzz word.

In your mind, what is being extorted?

And who is extorting?
#24
MayCaesar
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@zedvictor4
So in the UK we have approximately 36 million vehicles plus agricultural machinery, all demanding to get from A to B as fast and as safely as possible.

It is logistically and financially impossible to provide and maintain 260000 miles of public roads in a constant state of perfection.

Annual budget is approximately £1.2 billion, backlog is approximately £16 billion, so that roughly equates to a 15 year backlog in road maintenance.

And roads are but one requirement of an overdemanding population.
The international postal company called "UPS" is fully private. It operates nearly 350,000 vehicles, employs over 0.5 million people, and makes over 21 billion (yes, that is a "b") deliveries per year across 200+ countries worldwide. Providing and maintaining 260,000 miles of public roads on a few islands is nothing next to that.

I forgot to say that the UPS annual budget is over 80 billion USD - and all this money is obtained from willing customers and investors, not taken at a gunpoint. That your government has to resort to robbery to fund itself shows just how little value it actually has for people: buying its services voluntarily is not worth it to anyone.

#25
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@MayCaesar
I forgot to say that the UPS annual budget is over 80 billion USD - and all this money is obtained from willing customers and investors, not taken at a gunpoint. That your government has to resort to robbery to fund itself shows just how little value it actually has for people: buying its services voluntarily is not worth it to anyone.
Worse than that. Government has gotten so big that roads are but a fraction of a percent of it's purview when it should be at least in the double digit percentile.

It's like the gumball machine in the whorehouse. You are lucky if it ever gets filled by the Madame.

Unlike Canada Post which is Canada’s government-run postal service. It is a public monopoly for letter mail and it contracts heavily with unionized labor. Contract negotiations break down and leads to strikes and parcel stoppages that last months with a backlog. And we can't outsource the service.


#26
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@MayCaesar
So a private company is self funding, and funds itself within the constraints of it's trading abilities.

Whereas a national road network is one small facet of a nations budgetary demands.

I fail to see the comparison.

So people are more than happy to pay UPS to manage postal deliveries for them, but not happy paying to maintain the roads that postal deliveries rely upon.

So if people expect not to have to pay for social services and infrastructure, then why should they be expected to have to pay for postal deliveries.


So lets gift all 260000 miles of British roads to the brilliant UPS...Problem solved then...Is that what you're saying?

In fact, lets replace gun toting, extorting "Government" with UPS and get them to sort out the UK's annual bill of  £1200 billion.

Hmmmmm, sort of leaves them with a £1120 billion shortfall...And that's just in the UK.

That's going to put up the price of sending a parcel, just a tad.


#27
MayCaesar
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@zedvictor4
The delivery service of one private company is also just one small facet of a nation's budgetary demands - and this one is perfectly provided by one. 

I have never suggested that UPS should run the British roads; that is a product of your narrow thinking. My point is that nothing prevents a private company from managing enough resources to provide these services. UPS provides delivery services; URS could just as well provide road services, had the government not nationalized the whole sector.

Nor have I said that I expect not to pay for social services and infrastructure. I actually want to pay for them - but I can't, because the government puts a gun to my head and takes my money. It is only possible to pay for something if you are given a choice not to pay and walk away in one piece. Otherwise it is just someone taking your property.
#28
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@MayCaesar
So you want to pay for infrastructure and social services. 

What is a better alternative fund raising process?...Other than a social institution that raises funds through taxation.

And how are you going to get people to part with their money without a metaphorical gun to their heads.


Sort of, will you please donate some money, so that we can resurface the highway.

So, Mr Caesar says certainly and hands over $20.

Whereas Mr Caesars neighbour says fuck you.

And anyway who are the ones rattling the collection tin, who you trust to spend your $20 wisely.



And paying private middlemen to manage social services has in a lot of instances, been found to be less than economical or efficient...For example in my local authority region, road services have reverted to in house provision and management.

And private middlemen who mange social services, are funded not by public donation, but through national or regional taxation overseen by the  government of the day...So you think that private contractors are angels who will always spend your money wisely....I would suggest, that they are hard headed business people who are primarily out to line their own pockets with your donations, and far less trustworthy or accountable than an elected government is.

And delivery services, are non-essential services, wherein the user can choose to either part with their money or not.

And in the UK, UPS is one of many delivery companies.

And currently in the US, business isn't booming for UPS...With reports of job losses and depot closures.



So sorry, the whole gun to the head, anti government taxation thing, is just another conspiracy theory.

Which isn't to suggest that all politicians are infallible.

But that said, all people are fallible.


So, you don't like paying taxes.

And I would rather not pay taxes.

But there isn't really a better alternative.

Though 65 years of experience tells me that if one is reasonably savvy, then taxation for national and regional services and infrastructure, is easily factored into ones personal budget, and one can still easily afford to send and receive parcels...In fact there is a plethora of other luxury and inessential services that one is able to afford.

#29
MayCaesar
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@zedvictor4
The answers to all of your questions can be found in your next visit to a grocery store. What happens to people who do not want to pay for their groceries? They do not get groceries.  You pay - you receive, otherwise you do not. It is nor a hard concept.

As for the gun to the head being a conspiracy theory... Stop paying your taxes and find out how conspiratorial it is. The government openly says that you will go to jail. There is no conspiracy: everything is happening out in the open, and people are too confused by walls of bureaucratic abstraction to see the obvious: they are being robbed.

Is there no better alternative to do business than via robbery? If you seriously believe that, then your vision of humanity is dark indeed. Needless to say, I do not subscribe to it. Nor do you when push comes to shove: what you advocate for the government to do, you are against anyone else doing under virtually any circumstances. Millennia of propaganda lead to this kind of cognitive dissonance.
#30
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@MayCaesar
So stay indoors and never drive on the highway again and never walk on the sidewalk again, if you don't want to pay for their upkeep. Simple.

Actually, if you really want to be a non-contributing isolationist, probably best to head for the hills, pitch a tent in the forest and live off the land...And throw that phone away.

But watch out for bears.

Me...I'm quite content paying my taxes, because not only did I work hard and save money, I will also have my State pension to look forward too, and if I get ill I know that there is a National Health Service (albeit overstretched) that will do its best to help me.