"We're Going After Criminals"

Author: Double_R

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#61
Greyparrot
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Rome literally fell because it stopped asking immigrants to become Roman. Once Rome had a  critical mass of people who lived in Rome, but had no Roman values, that was the inevitable collapse of a great nation.

So it's not really immigration that's the real issue. It's the assimilation that is the issue, which is impossible to accomplish with illegal migration.
Waving Mexican flags in the streets, singing the anthem in Spanish....

What's funny to a lot of people is that most legal immigrants, even racist ones like DoubleR, still want legal assimilation because they are much more American then Mexican. Especially near the border, they also know firsthand the reality of the violence and chaos of Mexico that most coastal brown racist people rarely get exposed to.

Illegal immigration isn’t a race issue. it’s a cultural cohesion issue.


#62
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@Double_R
If these people were en masse not contributing to the economy, I would care. They are. If these people were en masse not respecting their communities by violating laws (other than existing here), I would care. They are.
This is just myopia. Anybody who consumes is “contributing to the economy” in some sense, as it causes the big line to go up. That doesn’t make the presence of more immigrants an inherent good, anyone who isn’t an open borders advocate should understand that or else they’d become an open borders advocate. As I see it: 

Endless supply of cheap labor: 

Pros: 

-more labor

-more demand for goods and services, more economic activity happens 

-bigger population (size has a quality all of its own)

Cons: 

-Causes demand for almost everything in society, increasing prices on fixed goods (land, houses near cities etc) 

-usually don’t make enough to support their families, in a welfare state get things like cash welfare, special schooling to teach English, free food, etc 

-deters firms from investing in automation and technology 

-often come from cultures with traits most Americans would consider to be negative 

There are studies from a number of European countries analyzing non-western immigrants which found that even in peak earning years they are NEVER net fiscal contributors to the government. I would be thrilled to see something about the net fiscal impacts of various groups in the US but can’t find a credible one. I do know when Trump 1.0 suggested tightening the public charge rules to exclude immigrants who are likely to consume “Medicaid, Medicare Part D premium and cost-sharing subsidies, the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP), and housing assistance” by analyzing  things likely to make this happen (not employed or in education, not knowing English, low income, no high school education, or very old or very young) pro immigration sources were complaining that 69% of LEGAL immigrants had at least one negative factor. 60% (!!) of LEGAL immigrants from Latin America had TWO or more negative factors. 

Illegals don’t get welfare unless they commit fraud but their kids do. Like I said this stuff is murky at best. Obviously if every illegal went away overnight (of course we could just have a legal, enforced, temporary work visa instead of a permanent helot class) there would be severe issues in fields like construction. But we also have tons of houses, apartments, etc that are occupied by those same people so the demand is increased as well. Certainly the economy didn’t seem to be hurting too much prior to the massive Biden wave of illegal immigrants, if they were so great you’d think we’d have noticed by now. 


I tend to be very critical of white people, particularly in most matters of racial tension because I find that white people tend to have a very self centered viewpoint which fails to recognize what it's like to not be white. That is very different from disliking white people.
And that’s your right to feel that way. But you seem to have a serious issue with me being “very critical” of other groups. Why is it okay for you but not me? If there was mass illegal immigration of maga chuds and I was arguing for giving them amnesty as long as they aren’t committing violent crimes, you good with that? . 
#63
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@Greyparrot
Rome literally fell because it stopped asking immigrants to become Roman. Once Rome had a  critical mass of people who lived in Rome, but had no Roman values, that was the inevitable collapse of a great nation.

So it's not really immigration that's the real issue. It's the assimilation that is the issue, which is impossible to accomplish with illegal migration.
Waving Mexican flags in the streets, singing the anthem in Spanish....
Yes 100%. Immigration is fine but assimilation must be demanded. If you’re here you’re an American now, and your in group, your historical grievances, your idea of your culture and history, this has to be aligned with America. If you can’t accept that you aren’t welcome. 

When I see stuff like people marching under foreign flags, people trying to influence the government to intervene in their old world grievances, families who have lived here (often illegally) for 30+ years and can’t speak a lick of English, or immigrants hiring only from their own ethnic group I wonder why would any country put up with this?

But like Rome at some point there’s just a spiritual exhaustion. Look at the way our elites talk about our people, our history and culture etc. Does anyone think the way the Harvard faculty talks about America/Americans is how a the elite of a healthy society talk? If you asked them straight up if we deserve to continue to exist they’d likely say no 
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#64
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@fauxlaw
The system isn't broken because the law is broken, it's broken because the executive in the former administration refused to enforce the law.
This is just partisan nonsense.

One of the biggest difference between Biden's policies vs Trump's is that Trump relied on title 42 to expel asylum seekers, which is legally dubious at best. Biden reversed that in order to bring his administrations policies back to being in accordance with the law. Did it result in higher levels of migration to the US? Yes. But to claim it's because the president wasn't following the laws is just stupid, the truth is literally the opposite.

Hell, Biden thoughts he ran for US Senate. HGe said it enough in his 2020 campaign, and several times referred to Harris as 'the president.
" 
when are you goings to admit thins guy was old toast? That's what Trump is doing. Endforcement. Get it?
I get that you have no argument so you had to make a claim that is egregiously false and then quickly change the subject to political gotchas on Joe Biden.

#65
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Partisan nonsense????
There’s no U.S. law that says we must let in illegal border crossers if they claim asylum. There's no law that requires USA to grant temporary visas while claims are processed either. the idea that we’re somehow obligated to hand out legal permissions people normally spend weeks to years earning just because someone says the magic word “asylum.” I've heard it 100 times from Homan: 8 U.S.C. § 1325 makes it illegal to enter between legal ports of entry, and asylum seekers are legally supposed to wait at those ports of entry. Biden’s catch-and-release policy actually directly undermined existing federal law, which requires asylum applicants to be physically detained while their claims are processed.

In contrast, Trump’s "Remain in Mexico" (Migrant Protection Protocols) was perfectly legal. It followed 8 U.S.C. § 1225(b)(2)(C), which allowwed DHS to require fence hopping noncitizens to wait in Mexico during proceedings. Trump upheld due process without encouraging mass illegal entry or rewarding lawbreaking like Biden dis.
That kind of partisan nonsense?

Biden wasn’t "in accordance with the law.", certainly not those laws Homan often cites.  He, or his staff handlers,  purposefully dismantled enforcement mechanisms and replaced them with lobby funded loopholes. That’s how you get a migrant assimilation crisis. That aint compassion, that's crony in action. I get you guys are armed with emotion and flowy rhetoric, but the purpose of the executive in a functioning government is to execute the laws, and the law is the law.

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#66
Double_R
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@thett3
Anybody who consumes is “contributing to the economy” in some sense, as it causes the big line to go up. That doesn’t make the presence of more immigrants an inherent good
No, that's when we turn to the data which tells us that overall, illegal immigrants contribute far more in taxes than they receive in public services.

You don't agree with that because you think all of the studies that show this are partisan. Fine. Regardless, you're still not getting it.

I'm not advocating for us to bring more people into this country or to just ignore the ones that are here. Obama was dubbed the importer in chief, I don't have any issue with what he did. I support the bipartisan border deal which would have done a lot of really good things to address the actual problem. What you are advocating for is categorically different. You are the one supporting the use of federal dollars to go around the country and round all of these people up indiscriminately and deport them all, regardless of the impacts it will have on our society or the inhumanity of tearing these people apart from their families, friends, and communities. That's what I take issue with.

Again; whatever your issue with how these people got here, they're here. The question is what do we do now? You are the one who wants to spend our public resources and focus our public discourse on this, so it is you, not me, who needs a legitimate reason to justify that position. My position is that we have much bigger problems to deal with, because we do.

you seem to have a serious issue with me being “very critical” of other groups. Why is it okay for you but not me?
Because I'm not trying to justify going around the country and rounding up millions of white people to deport them. I'm not the one looking at a situation where white people are being sent purposefully by this administration to a foreign torture prison on an effective life sentence and shrugging it off cause they shouldn't have come here, as if illegally crossing a border warrants life in prison.

Our positions do not resemble each other. Mine is a combination of pragmatism and human decency, yours is one of bigotry and indifference dressed up as reverence for the rule of law.
#67
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@Double_R
Our positions do not resemble each other. Mine is a combination of pragmatism and human decency, yours is one of bigotry and indifference dressed up as reverence for the rule of law.
So you had no problems carving out exceptions for South African whites?
#68
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Without immigration, the U.S. population will shrink starting in 2033 in part “because fertility rates are projected to remain too low for a generation to replace itself,” the Congressional Budget Office said.
The reduced projections from last year were the results of a decline in projected fertility rates over 30 years from 1.70 births per woman to 1.60 births per woman and less immigration because of an executive order last June that temporarily suspends asylum processing at the border when U.S. officials deem they are overwhelmed, the budget office said. Replacement happens at a rate of 2.1 births per woman.
#69
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Cool, now ask AI what uncontrolled lack of assimilation does to a nation.
#70
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@Double_R
No, that's when we turn to the data which tells us that overall, illegal immigrants contribute far more in taxes than they receive in public services.
Hold the phone there partner. Thats gonna get a big “citation needed” from me. This is probably true IF you don’t count their children (who we are stuck with forever) 


Pretty good source here, Total tax payment of illegals between federal, state, and local taxes: $96 billion 



4.5 million children of illegal immigrants in our public schools in 2021 (so before the Bidenwave): https://www.fwd.us/news/k-12-undocumented-students/

Average cost of $18,600 per student and illegals probably cost more due to ESL. But let’s roll with the average. 


That’s $84 billion right there just educating their children. Probably more if you account for ESL. 

Given how poor these families are the US citizen children are almost all on Medicaid. But to be generous we will say only half are (which is way way too generous) average Medicaid spending per enrolled child is $3000/year: so 2.25m x 3000 = $6.7B 


I just looked this up in ten minutes. We’re already almost at parity just with pre Biden wave numbers and before getting into SNAP, TANF, section 8, etc etc without considering the fact that the vast majority of these children will grow up to be net tax consumers and continue the cycle. 

This doesn’t count state and local.  New York State alone spent $3.76 Billion in FY 2024 on “asylum seekers”…a single state!


California spends $8.5B a year giving illegals Medical…one welfare program in one state 


biased source obviously but the house report estimates the net fiscal contribution of illegals is lifetime net negative $68,000 and the math checks out. If anything the expenditure estimates seem conservative/low. 



And of course if you lot had your way the adults would all be made citizens and therefore immediately be eligible for welfare, Medicaid, social security once they get old, etc…right now they pay taxes as if they were citizens but don’t get all the benefits and are still somehow significant drains. Legalize them and watch it explode 

Because I'm not trying to justify going around the country and rounding up millions of white people to deport them. I'm not the one looking at a situation where white people are being sent purposefully by this administration to a foreign torture prison on an effective life sentence and shrugging it off cause they shouldn't have come here, as if illegally crossing a border warrants life in prison.

Our positions do not resemble each other. Mine is a combination of pragmatism and human decency, yours is one of bigotry and indifference dressed up as reverence for the rule of law.
Nope, you made a big rhetorical error by taking the bait to complain about white people. Either it’s okay to hold generalized opinions about the cultures of groups of people or it isn’t, and if it isn’t what you’ve said is just as bigoted as what I said. At least I’m complaining about foreigners and not my own countrymen. 

My position is that they’re here illegally (many of them have a tenure measured in months), they cost me money, and I don’t like their culture and the direction they’ll take our country in so let’s enforce the law. Your position is doing so would be mean, and I said something bad about their culture which is a big no no. 

Thought experiment: imagine if it comes to pass that all the millions of chavs in the UK who voted for parties like the BNP, UKIP, or Reform UK suddenly showed up at the US southern border during Trump 2.0. Trump does absolutely nothing to deter them and they’re very obnoxiously Chavvish/ quasi MAGA. An overwhelming majority of the country is furious about the presidents immigration policy. A Dem wins all seven swing states and a trifecta with sending these people back as a major component of her campaign platform. You good with them staying? 
#71
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@thett3
An overwhelming majority of the country is furious about the presidents immigration policy.

I found the comments from The View and MSNBC about the South African refugees totally mask-off, and disgusting. And that was only about 50 refugees!
#72
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@Double_R
Anyone remember that? I didn't know the place to find them was in schools, churches or at the Home Depot.
Anyone remember this from his inaugural address?

“My proudest legacy will be that of a peacemaker andunifier. That’s what I want to be: a peacemaker and a unifier” ..., “We will be a nation likeno other, full of compassion, courage and exceptionalism. Our power will stopall wars and bring a new spirit of unity to a world that has been angry,violent and totally unpredictable. America will be respected again and admiredagain.” - Donald Trump
#73
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@Sidewalker
That’s what I want to be: a peacemaker and a unifier”

Nothing screams peace like shooting Antifa in the face with 2000 national guard rubber bullets. Now the whole country can get behind that wall of peace, unified against left wing terrorism. That’s the kind of unity you get when lawlessness meets accountability.
#74
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@Greyparrot
Yeah I mean it seems to be fading thank God but the left is pretty openly anti white in a disgusting way. 

It just leaked that Lockheed Martin was caught red handed dictating compensation by race. A military aligned engineering firm has a lot of culturally conservative inertia so you can imagine how bad must have been/is in other industries. Colleges have been open about discriminating against whites (especially white men) for like….fifty years now lol 

I have white kids…I do actually find Trump and the current GOP pretty grotesque but there’s no way I’m doing anything but voting straight ticket republican in every election I can until the Dems have credibly dispensed of this type of nonsense. 

#75
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@thett3
I hate Trump too, I would have never imagined I would ever vote for essentially a 90's Democrat, but here we are. That's the choices we get with the current decay of America. It's either get behind a big technocracy in the spirit of a 90's Democrat, or the  complete annihilation of everything the country was founded on to be replaced with whatever culture survives the illegal migration.
#76
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So illegals pay $96 billion in taxes across state, local, and federal. The total federal tax receipts in 2024 4.9 trillion (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_United_States_federal_budget) 

Total state and local taxes nationwide: 

~$2.7 trillion


Total $7.6T 

So illegals pay 1.3% of all taxes. Using the 11 million estimate (huge underestimate that hasn’t changed in years + not counting US born children) they’re about 3.3%  of the population (again not counting the ~4.5m children with at least one illegal parent). so their ratio of % population to % of taxes paid is 2.5. And considering that the federal government runs at a deficit of $1.8 trillion (meaning that the entire tax base is very net negative…) illegal immigrants being net tax contributors doesn’t pass the smell test even accounting for lower use of government resources
#77
ADreamOfLiberty
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@thett3
So illegals pay $96 billion in taxes across state, local, and federal.
Question: How in the F would anybody be able to compile that information without also having a list of fraudulent social security numbers/TINs?

#78
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@Double_R
This is just partisan nonsense.
Were I a Repub, or a MAGA, that might be valid, but I am neither. Just stop trying to peg me. You have no clue who or what I am. Stop trying and live with a degree of ignorance as the rest of most of us do

I get that you have no argument so you had to make a claim that is egregiously false
Biden, in his own words, my friend, on two separate occasions. Egregiously false, my ares.  



It's a good thing some people around here actually pay attention to the opposition. 
#79
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@Double_R
I tend to be very critical of white people, particularly in most matters of racial tension because I find that white people tend to have a very self centered viewpoint which fails to recognize what it's like to not be white. 
What are you?

How have you made this discovery? What do you know about whites not knowing what it is like to be non-white? What do they need to know? 
#80
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@Double_R
Isn't everyone self-centered? How much regard do immigrants have for the nation giving them a house and a job? Do they care more about the American or more about themselves?
#81
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@yachilviveyachali
Isn't everyone self-centered?
I am not.

#82
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@Greyparrot
That’s what I want to be: a peacemaker and a unifier”

Nothing screams peace like shooting Antifa in the face with 2000 national guard rubber bullets. Now the whole country can get behind that wall of peace, unified against left wing terrorism. That’s the kind of unity you get when lawlessness meets accountability.
We are pure evil and nothing you do can stop us, we will destroy civilization with tolerance and compassion and demolish the purity of the white race with DEI.

Your Aryan race is doomed.
#83
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@Sidewalker
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#84
Double_R
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@thett3
Hold the phone there partner. Thats gonna get a big “citation needed” from me.
Yeah, I already told you I'm not going back and forth on a my study vs your study debate, that would be a monumental waste of time.

I will just comment on a few things. Your case is that the illegal immigrant population is a net negative when factoring their children, which most studies don't do. But that's also the case for the vast majority of the American population, should we deport them too? Educating children is expensive but it's not an expense as much as it's an investment, and children of illegal immigrants tend to do very well later in life compared to their US born counterparts, so this argument falls flat to me.

It also fails cause if the argument is that they need to go because they're costing us money, do you really not understand how much it is/will cost to deport them? Not only in deportation costs but also the economic costs stemming from the shock of losing their contributions over such a short period of time? This is where I find this argument disingenuous. Go all out on stopping any more from coming in, fine. No issue there. But removing everyone here, that's way more expensive than anything you'll spend educating and providing healthcare for their kids.

Nope, you made a big rhetorical error by taking the bait to complain about white people.
What are you talking about?

I didn't "complain about white people". I said that I often disagree with their arguments because I find them ignorant of what it's like to not be white. My issue is with their viewpoints not them or their "culture", which, naturally, means it only applies to those white people as well as anyone else who thinks like that.

Either it’s okay to hold generalized opinions about the cultures of groups of people or it isn’t and if it isn’t what you’ve said is just as bigoted as what I said.
Everyone holds opinions about groups of people, if you don't then you are just willfully unobservant about the world. When those opinions lead to intolerance of or indifference towards the suffering or inhumane treatment of those groups, that's when you've crossed the bigotry line. Nothing I've ever expressed on this site qualifies, so nice try.

At least I’m complaining about foreigners and not my own countrymen. 
The fact that you think it makes a difference with regards to holding negative views towards groups of people makes my point. This is exactly the kind of otherism Trump is so effectively weaponizing.

 Your position is doing so would be mean, and I said something bad about their culture which is a big no no. 
I said way more than that, but of course that's all you heard.

It is telling that when I talk about tearing people away from their lives, families, friends, and communities, all you heard is "they're being mean". Such childishness is usually at the core of MAGA aligned thinking.

Thought experiment: imagine if it comes to pass that all the millions of chavs in the UK who voted for parties like the BNP, UKIP, or Reform UK suddenly showed up at the US southern border during Trump 2.0. Trump does absolutely nothing to deter them and they’re very obnoxiously Chavvish/ quasi MAGA. An overwhelming majority of the country is furious about the presidents immigration policy. A Dem wins all seven swing states and a trifecta with sending these people back as a major component of her campaign platform. You good with them staying? 
First, whatever the majority of Americans voted for is irrelevant to what I believe about the issue.

Second, if Trump worked out bipartisan legislation in Congress to address the issue and the Democratic president stopped that legislation just to win my vote, I'd be absolutely furious with that president and everyone who allowed that to happen, and I wouldn't be giving that president credit for solving anything.

Third, I would not be ok with that Democratic president violating the rights to these chavs, like due process, and using gross tactics to hunt them down like doing workplace raids and getting rid of people who've been here for years and even decades, haven't done anything wrong and are actually working and contributing.

Fourth, to answer your question directly, what I would support is that we follow the law and get rid of whoever we get rid of in accordance with normal enforcement of those laws. I wouldn't be ok with deportation forces being unleashed upon the entire country, especially when, curiously, those forces would be concentrated in red states where they are least unwanted.

Fifth, your analogy misrepresents what Biden did. His policies, however detrimental from a migration overflow standpoint, were objectively more in line with US law than Trump's policies. The law in this case is the problem, and your "side" did nothing to help fix that issue, so your criticisms of the prior administration fall flat at best and at worst is blatant and weaponized hypocrisy.

Sixthed, this entire analogy is deeply flawed. Of course I would have a problem with a group of people being "let in" because of their political ideology, but that's putting the cart before the horse. The communities closer to the illegal immigrant population do not support democrats because they're just naturally democrat, they support democrats because of how you guys treat them. Of course these chavs would vote against my side of my side's entire ethos was that the key to making our lives better was to get rid of them. So no, you don't get to oppose someone's existence in your country and then pretend the reason your opposition is justifiable is because of their political views when their political views are mostly self defense against your opposition.
#85
thett3
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@Double_R
I will just comment on a few things. Your case is that the illegal immigrant population is a net negative when factoring their children, which most studies don't do. But that's also the case for the vast majority of the American population, should we deport them too? Educating children is expensive but it's not an expense as much as it's an investment, and children of illegal immigrants tend to do very well later in life compared to their US born counterparts, so this argument falls flat to me.
That’s gonna be another big citation needed from me. The median family income for ALL Hispanic families is $46.7k, and this includes a lot of people whose families came here legally (or who were here before the land was even the USA) who have been here for a long time, have contributed a lot, are educated…to be fair it also includes a lot of illegal immigrants. I searched a long time but couldn’t find any sources on the children of illegals specifically, but I would estimate that they’re around the median if not lower. A family income of $46k isn’t net positive for the government that’s for sure. Educating them and giving them welfare is an investment yes, but it’s an extremely poor one. 


As far as should we deport poor citizens of course not. I feel that I have obligations to working class/poor Americans, and they have obligations to me, that aren’t shared by foreigners. That’s the entire point of a country. It takes all types of people to run a society, not everyone can be a net taxpayer. There will always be some people on social programs as that’s what they’re for. But you’re expecting me to be okay with a group of foreigners coming here illegally and creating a permanent caste of net tax consumers…I don’t understand how anyone could be expected to accept that. Frankly the more I think about it Americans come off as some of the kindest and most generous people to ever exist. 

As far as how much does it cost to deport someone, according to DHS it’s about $17,000. That’s a steal compared to letting them set up shop here permanently and paying for their families in perpetuity. 


It is telling that when I talk about tearing people away from their lives, families, friends, and communities, all you heard is "they're being mean". Such childishness is usually at the core of MAGA aligned thinking.
I mean I don’t disagree that it would cause a lot of suffering but I disagree about moral culpability. If I moved illegally to Germany, never found work that pays anywhere near enough to contribute to the system, had some kids who were born in Germany who consumed education resources and welfare from the German state the entire time, never learned German…if they kick me out 15 years later that’s on me, not Germany. The entitlement of these people is absolutely insane and completely obnoxious. Being sent back to your country of origin is not a rights violation in any way. 

Third, I would not be ok with that Democratic president violating the rights to these chavs, like due process, and using gross tactics to hunt them down like doing workplace raids and getting rid of people who've been here for years and even decades, haven't done anything wrong and are actually working and contributing.

Fourth, to answer your question directly, what I would support is that we follow the law and get rid of whoever we get rid of in accordance with normal enforcement of those laws. I wouldn't be ok with deportation forces being unleashed upon the entire country, especially when, curiously, those forces would be concentrated in red states where they are least unwanted.
I’m so confused. Finding people where they are including the entire country and work places IS the normal enforcement of laws??? How else are you gonna do it?? Unless you think states should be allowed to nullify federal law? We dealt with this literally in the 1830s. Also if you’re here working illegally you are not only illegal but probably stole someone’s identity to work?? 

Sixthed, this entire analogy is deeply flawed. Of course I would have a problem with a group of people being "let in" because of their political ideology, but that's putting the cart before the horse. The communities closer to the illegal immigrant population do not support democrats because they're just naturally democrat, they support democrats because of how you guys treat them. Of course these chavs would vote against my side of my side's entire ethos was that the key to making our lives better was to get rid of them. So no, you don't get to oppose someone's existence in your country and then pretend the reason your opposition is justifiable is because of their political views when their political views are mostly self defense against your opposition.
I don’t think you’re correct here. You can look at opinions about redistribution, free speech, guns, basically anything you can possibly think of and Latin American people on average are well to the left of Americans, both here and in their home countries. Democrats openly bragged, for DECADES, about using immigration to engineer a permanent electoral majority. It remains to be seen if Trumps big gains with nonwhites stick. The Dems didn’t foresee the GOP managing to win with a more diverse electorate by totally dispensing with fiscal conservatism—which frankly is something we desperately need right about now.

The point of the hypothetical is to see how you’d react if there was the mass illegal immigration of people from a culture YOU disliked. It seems that if that happened you are okay with deporting them you just disagree with some tactics. 

I think we should have an immigration policy that cherry picks positive outliers from every part of the world, and if we truly need low skilled labor than temporary work visas with enforced exit dates should be issued.  
#86
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Frankly, I am just tired of the logical arguments.
I am really done at the point when immigrants refuse to sing the national anthem in English at a ballgame for any reason.
That's a hostile takeover of American culture and I will unapologetically resist that. I get that we stopped enforcing assimilation since the 90's, but that earns a big fuck you when you think you can force your culture on me and force ME to assimilate into your backwards culture. I never asked for that. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1LdYZiKDIh8
#87
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Frankly, I am just tired of the logical arguments.
Libertarians in a nutshell.
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I'm just explaining why most Americans consider this an 80-20 issue. It goes far beyond logic and rhetoric. Nobody should be forced to feel like an outsider in the country they were born and raised in. Maybe the Irish are okay with that, but not most Americans. Rhetoric and postmodern slogans will never change that.
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I 100% agree with you. We have the ability to pick and choose our immigrants, there are people out there who would enthusiastically become Americans, we should just do that. 
#90
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@Greyparrot
Frankly, I am just tired of the logical arguments.
I am really done at the point when immigrants refuse to sing the national anthem in English at a ballgame for any reason.
That's a hostile takeover of American culture and I will unapologetically resist that. I get that we stopped enforcing assimilation since the 90's, but that earns a big fuck you when you think you can force your culture on me and force ME to assimilate into your backwards culture. I never asked for that. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1LdYZiKDIh8
For once I agree with you, anybody who doesn't speak our native language should just get the hell out of my country.

As far as I'm concerned you are all illegal immigrants, anyone who doesn't speak Tsalagi can just go back to wherever you came from,