Is MAGA still pretending they're not an fascist authoritarian movement?

Author: Double_R

Posts

Total: 145
Topic's author
#1
Double_R
Double_R's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 5,870
3
2
5
Double_R's avatar
Double_R
3
2
5
So in just the past week Trump has deployed the US military onto US streets, endorsed his administration arresting the governor of California, and said anyone who protests his birthday parade will be met with force, publicly pressured a news organization to fire a journalist for saying mean things about Trump, and arrested a sitting US senator for the crime of asking a question at a press conference.

Are we seriously still pretending this isn't everything the left said about Trump during the campaign that you all claimed was just TDS?
#2
AdaptableRatman
AdaptableRatman's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 2,339
3
4
8
AdaptableRatman's avatar
AdaptableRatman
3
4
8
But I don't think you get it.

He is a pseudofascist populist gimmick.

This man is a sexual degenerate on a thurd wife with nultiple women claiming he abused them.

He is not Presbytariab anymore as his wife insisted Barron got Christened Catholic but then decided to risdiucke papacy, confirming that he likely is now not even Christian at all, neither Protestant, orthodox nor Catholic.

He is a valueless degenerate that championed the lokes ofd eadbeat 14+ kid most by ivf Elon Musk who crossdresses for fun and is mroe concerned with us pooulating Mars like animals, playing God on another planet, than he is with any Earthly issues at all except money and his brands loke Tesla that he himself bought and didn't invent and which is Indian not American, reducing likelihood that this Sohth African immigrant is patriotic even further.

On top of all this, Trump carries himself like a foul mouthed schoolyard bully trying to seem alpha male more than the Mussolini or Franco style of being actually intimidating and masculine. Hitler's screeching style also was some sort of overcompensation hut of all Fascists (Nazism is an ugly mutation of it) Hitler was the most environmentally and scientifcially oriented. Trump has next to 0 interest in environmental protections and the only science he cared about in both terms was space science (Musk was likely behind that being a term 1 decision of Trump).
#3
Mall
Mall's avatar
Debates: 441
Posts: 2,449
4
4
4
Mall's avatar
Mall
4
4
4
-->
@Double_R
Of course the Republican administration is going to be moving forward with all that is opposed to the democratic gang.
Topic's author
#4
Double_R
Double_R's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 5,870
3
2
5
Double_R's avatar
Double_R
3
2
5
-->
@Mall
Of course the Republican administration is going to be moving forward with all that is opposed to the democratic gang.
Why? Tell me more about this Democratic gang you probably learned all about on Fox News.
#5
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 28,019
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@Double_R
and arrested a sitting US senator for the crime of asking a question at a press conference.
Yes, clearly that was the only thing he did.

So in just the past week Trump has deployed the US military onto US streets...
Remember when people were mad that Trump prevented Pelosi from deploying the national guard on Jan 6? 
Both times he was a fascist dictator. Obviously.
#6
AdaptableRatman
AdaptableRatman's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 2,339
3
4
8
AdaptableRatman's avatar
AdaptableRatman
3
4
8
If this is America's Fascism then as far as Fascism goes it is a degenerate joke.

Its leader is a sexual degenerate that brags about it and ridicules Papacy. He literally bragged about wanting incest with his daughter...

He incited domestic terrorism and then chickened out of saying he wanted the overthrow.

In European Fascism he'd be lucky to be walking as a free man given all he has done.
#7
AdaptableRatman
AdaptableRatman's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 2,339
3
4
8
AdaptableRatman's avatar
AdaptableRatman
3
4
8
Also in true Fascism Musk would be kicked out back to South Africa or need to live with his children as a real father.

Option 3 is he serves the military.
#8
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 28,019
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@AdaptableRatman
They also call Trump a king when district judges regularly override his authority.

Americans need a real dictator to let them know what real outrage is. So soft.

We literally had a 400 pound woman complaining to the Congress that her 22 year old child couldn't get food stamps anymore. And that's Faaaassssccchhhisssmm.
#9
AdaptableRatman
AdaptableRatman's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 2,339
3
4
8
AdaptableRatman's avatar
AdaptableRatman
3
4
8
-->
@Greyparrot
Fascism generally began democratic and turned dictatorial so their fear is correct in that logical sense.

Trump is Fascistic without a doubt and trying to build a cult of personality around himself.

A major difference between Monarchy and Fascism is that the Monarchs are somehow genuinely respected first and they then can rule with soft power and save ruthlessness for only a select few rebels. They also can shift their values constantly and indeed act as degenerate as Trump like Henry 8th did and found an entirely new Church of England Anglicanism if they see fit (Church of USA I guess). So, it is actually a lot more accurate to say Trump is trying to achieve Monarchy and he insinuated Barron will be his successor in his inauguration speech or whatever.

Barron Trump is a good hope regardless if he truly stays Catholic. He is very likely to bring actual Conservative Christian values to US rather than Donald's flimsy degenerate version of what can be described as puke and excrement pretending to be Christian.
#10
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 28,019
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@AdaptableRatman
Ironically, Trump is trying to restore democracy to the USA instead of having the country run by corporate interests using alphabet agencies to launder power and influence.  The fact that district judges are wielding power to decide national and foreign policy is proof that we lost the power of a democracy long ago. The current meme going around is that Trump should have run for district judge instead of president if he really wanted to fix the country.
#11
AdaptableRatman
AdaptableRatman's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 2,339
3
4
8
AdaptableRatman's avatar
AdaptableRatman
3
4
8
-->
@Greyparrot
He is the only US president in the history of the nation afaik that denied a democratic election as valid and incited violent overthrow.

The closest example of what Trump did is the entire Confederates and their leader but they did not deny Lincoln won the election, they admitted it and fought to secede.
#12
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 28,019
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@AdaptableRatman
that denied a democratic election..
Well, deny and challenge are two different words afaik....

So if you were accurate and used the word challenge, Trump is the latest in a long line of election challengers.

and incited violent overthrow
If people genuinely feel the country could be toppled by a bunch of larpers with horns and flagpoles and no guns, then the country is already gone long before and after Trump.
#13
AdaptableRatman
AdaptableRatman's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 2,339
3
4
8
AdaptableRatman's avatar
AdaptableRatman
3
4
8
-->
@Greyparrot
Okay GP. Usually, I just drop out here. When I was truly progressive and 'left wing' I came at this not understanding the 'other side'.

I am still left wing in some ways and personally would have voted Democrat had I been converted. The reason is that I actually can see things well, no matter what anyone says, both in terms of the website and real life politics.

There are various reasons to suppirt Trump. This thread was about if he is a Fascist Authoritarian. I think he is another variant of Authoritarian that mimics some Fascistic elements but actually is aiming more so for a monarchic Trump dynasty.

He is closest to Gaddafi if you analyse a few things about him, of the Fascists he is closest to Mussolini though he is actually operating in propaganda closer to Hitler but the 'enemy' he has in mind are Latinos and Muslims rather than Jews. He shares Hitoer's active disdain for LGBTQ rather than Mussolini's ambivalence. He has Mussolini's approach to the environment and Hitler's approach to Catholicism. He is operating least like Franco of Spain, wh9 would have favoured the Latinos because he would support all the races mixing into a homogenous melting pot dark haired caramel skin end ethnicity and who actuallt was more Catholic in his leadership style than Mussolini despite Italy having a higher percent adhering to its Catholicism in general at the time.

You want me to keep agreeing with utter nonsense.

I do not agree Trump respects democracy. I would easily argue he is the single least democracy supportive President ever. This is on fact why he is so open to make deals with actual quasiFascistic nations like Russia, Saudi and China. He genuinely has the least respect for democracy of all Presidents of US, it is blatant.

He also has the Hitlerite contradiction. He wants to invade Canada and Greenland, with 0 refard to their sovereignty and decided that a 'Gulf' known as Gulf of Mexico is to be solely referred to as Gulf of America. Mussolini also was a hypocrite to Ethiopia where his troops abused, genocided etc (a major part of why Ethiopia swung back to Islam).

A true Fascist would see each as deserving their own land. The one way Trump is Fascistic in a way Hitler completely failed to be is he respects the Zionist claim to Israel as an ethnic sacred right.

You are everything you pretend not to be right now. You are being partisan, bootlicker-loyalty and a blindly faithful aplogetic to a crooked slimeball businessman that opebly brags about sexual exploits and was buddies with Epstein known to have gone to the Island more than once.

I have never and likely will never properly understand your blind faith bullheaded forn of conspiracy theory. You are so quick to believe corruption of one party and group and are a dedicated bootlicker type for tge other group yet you brag about how you are not partisan or tricked to take a side.

You are. You are Trump's bootlicker and keep gaslighting yourself and others to think you are some zen middle-way thinker that sees past it all.

I actually am closer to seeing the flaws of both sudes than almost anyone I have ever met. That is not arrogance, it is genuine observation. I noticed it even within my family and community. I easily can see flaws of those close to me, far easier than most humans can. About the only time I got blinded was romantic/lustful attraction, which adds to why I am now firmly certain sex before marriage is unwise and added to me becoming Catholic.

 Jan 6th resulted in many cops committing suicide later. your side is scathing and giggles about that andnsimehow is so mentally unwell it thinks FBI made it happen. Meanwhile when George Floyd happened, your side was on the ground licking Chauvin's boots.
#14
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 28,019
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@AdaptableRatman
all fair points

 Jan 6th resulted in many cops committing suicide later...
I agree, if law enforcement is so weak willed that flagpoles and cosplay larpers wearing horns makes them unalive themselves days later, then the country is already gone. How could we stand against a real armed insurrection? It would drive the entire DC capital police force to huddle around a poisoned vat of Jonestown juice....
#15
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 28,019
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@AdaptableRatman
Either the standards for the Capitol police are razor paper-thin, or someone’s intentionally weaponizing grief to create a martyr myth for strategical political convenience.
#16
Sidewalker
Sidewalker's avatar
Debates: 8
Posts: 3,510
3
2
5
Sidewalker's avatar
Sidewalker
3
2
5
-->
@Double_R
So in just the past week Trump has deployed the US military onto US streets, endorsed his administration arresting the governor of California, and said anyone who protests his birthday parade will be met with force, publicly pressured a news organization to fire a journalist for saying mean things about Trump, and arrested a sitting US senator for the crime of asking a question at a press conference.

Are we seriously still pretending this isn't everything the left said about Trump during the campaign that you all claimed was just TDS?
They aren't pretending anything, they know they are a fascist authoritarian movement, they don't care, it's what they wanted.  Trump staged a deadly insurrection on Jan 6, tried to overthrow our democracy, and they still voted for him, he said he would be a dictator on day one, and they still voted for him, in anger at lawful protests the summer of 2020 he said “Can’t you just shoot them? Just shoot them in the legs or something?” and they still voted for him. He defined Americans, the Federal Government, the Free Press, diversity, and liberals as the "ENEMY", and they still voted for him. He was a twice impeached ex-President, an adjudicated rapist, has 34 felonies, and is a hate mongering demagogue, they didn't vote for him DESPITE those things, they voted for him BECAUSE of those things.

They are hypocrites, the more he suppresses free speech, the more they claim the people they hate suppress free speech, they more they want violence, the more the accuse the hated of wanting violence. Anything that outrages the opposition is good and true, and denial, hypocrisy, lies, and conspiracies are seen as ways of doing that.  Anything the opposition says is TDS, or fake news, or witch hunt, or conspiracy, or politically motivated, etc.  It's not about politics, it's not about policy, it's a culture war, it's about hatred plain and simple.

This is just who these people are, morally corrupt, politically and economically stupid, angry and hateful, and Trump loves them because they are too "poorly educated" to realize what they are doing. They know full well that they are at war with Americans and their government, and anything goes in war.  They will see violence as the fulfillment of their goals.

Recognize that this is simply who they are, they aren't pretending, it really doesn't matter how they respond to questions like yours, it isn't in their interest to admit they a fascist authoritarian movement, but they know what they are.  

.



#17
Mall
Mall's avatar
Debates: 441
Posts: 2,449
4
4
4
Mall's avatar
Mall
4
4
4
-->
@Double_R
Why is the Republican gang moving forward in doing things opposed to the Democrats?

Well I suppose they wouldn't be a political party without acting in conservative policies which would not agree with colorful rainbow liberals.
#18
Mall
Mall's avatar
Debates: 441
Posts: 2,449
4
4
4
Mall's avatar
Mall
4
4
4
All U.S. citizens do have to support the president by some degree.
#19
AdaptableRatman
AdaptableRatman's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 2,339
3
4
8
AdaptableRatman's avatar
AdaptableRatman
3
4
8
-->
@Greyparrot
Why am I debating someone whose idea of patriotism is owning weapons and investing heavily in crypto as he sees his nation's banking system as rotten to the core?
#20
fauxlaw
fauxlaw's avatar
Debates: 80
Posts: 4,246
4
7
10
fauxlaw's avatar
fauxlaw
4
7
10
-->
@Double_R
So in just the past week Trump has deployed the US military onto US streets
That is a generalized statement that fails to comprehend the constitutional powers of the President to deploy both the US Military, a general arm of the Defense Department, and the National Guard, a specific arm of the Defense Department, both potentially under the exclusive control of the U.S. President. First of all, The Posse Comitatus Act generally limits the use of the military in domestic law enforcement. However, the National Guard can perform domestic law enforcement functions under state command and, in certain circumstances, under federal authority, i.e., the President. It is not true that the military can be deployed only for purposes of protection of federal facilities, as shad been reported by the media, but it can be deployed strictly for that purpose by order of the President. 

It is irresponsible to accuse the President of arresting Gov. Newsom of CA. No arrest of the Gov has been made to date; you are misidentifying what the President said. He said, under the circumstance of Newsom violating law, "I'd arrest him," but, clearly, according to Tom Homan [the "border czar" according to the press]  "That whole thing's been taken out of context," Homan said. "They haven't crossed a line yet … If you cross that line, I don't care who they are — the governor, the mayor, whatever — and when you commit a crime against ICE officers, we will seek prosecution."  Future conditional acts, only, so put a sock in it.
let's keep our pantyhose on, yeah, Dub-R?
#21
FLRW
FLRW's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,158
3
4
8
FLRW's avatar
FLRW
3
4
8
-->
@AdaptableRatman

He is a pseudofascist populist gimmick.
  Tru-dat!
#22
WyIted
WyIted's avatar
Debates: 37
Posts: 8,784
4
4
9
WyIted's avatar
WyIted
4
4
9
The left

Fascism is bad

Also the left

Let's have forced policies that remove free speech control businesses to even the tiniest detail and run propaganda campaigns on the public. If you were principped about this you would be a libertarian 
#23
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 28,019
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@AdaptableRatman
Crypto is how you hold the crony feds who are manipulating inflation to help the ultra rich accountable. Just the threat of players dropping out of the USD game is enough.
Topic's author
#24
Double_R
Double_R's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 5,870
3
2
5
Double_R's avatar
Double_R
3
2
5
-->
@Greyparrot
and arrested a sitting US senator for the crime of asking a question at a press conference.
Yes, clearly that was the only thing he did.
Yes, that was literally all he did.

At best, and this is generous, you can argue they were right to remove him for disrupting the press conference. You cannot argue they were right to throw him down on the floor and hand cuff him. 

So in just the past week Trump has deployed the US military onto US streets...
Remember when people were mad that Trump prevented Pelosi from deploying the national guard on Jan 6? 
Both times he was a fascist dictator. Obviously.
First off all, Nancy Pelosi did not have any say over the deployment of the national guard, so whatever you're talking about is already nonsense.

Second, you're equivocating a mob riot that overtook the United States capitol forcing Congress and the vice president to be evacuated for their lives, a riot that lead to 140 Capitol police sustaining serious injuries and multiple deaths, and where the certification of a presidential election had to be stopped...

to a local protest estimated to have been attended by about 105 people and where estimates were about a dozen or less got violent, where no serious injuries were reported, where no one had to be evacuated for anything and where no government function was haulted.

Is it that you really think such a stupid comparison actually makes sense, or do you just get off on the long rebuke to your bullshit that you know is coming?
#25
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 28,019
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@Double_R
Yes, that was literally all he did.
And he did it with wings and a halo while the federal agents wore helmets with demon horns.

You cannot argue they were right to throw him down on the floor and hand cuff him. 
You shove a federal officer, it's game over. Period.
Topic's author
#26
Double_R
Double_R's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 5,870
3
2
5
Double_R's avatar
Double_R
3
2
5
-->
@AdaptableRatman
If this is America's Fascism then as far as Fascism goes it is a degenerate joke.
My op is in regards to the MAGA movement. I'm referring to their ideology (or probably more accurately started as their lack thereof), not the current state of the US.

You seem to have a deep understanding of the concept of fascism so you understand that it's not a simple black or white, as in it's here or it's not here and that's all we need to know.
Topic's author
#27
Double_R
Double_R's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 5,870
3
2
5
Double_R's avatar
Double_R
3
2
5
-->
@Sidewalker
All great points, and you're right - we both know who and what they really are. The question though is whether they are pretending, obviously it's not one answer for everyone. That's why I'm asking it here, curious to know if any of our resident maga cultists will admit it. If not, they are pretending by definition.
#28
AdaptableRatman
AdaptableRatman's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 2,339
3
4
8
AdaptableRatman's avatar
AdaptableRatman
3
4
8
-->
@WyIted
I said this even before changing some of my outlook:

Progressivism and Liberalism are not actual allies.

Right wing Conservatives' polar opposite is actually Ancaps not Ancoms and ancaps are closest to Right wing Libertarians.

The Wings have genuine rivals working together against common enemy policies while swallowing defeat on so so much else.

The leftwing progressive endgame is prolife where each child born doesn't have a financially crippling reason not to be.

The left wing liberal position is state making abortions easily accessible as well as contraception.

The right wing libertarian position is letting anyone kill the fetus or rot in poverty as they see fit.

The right wing conservative position is to outlaw adultery and force marriages to be lifelong unless there is grounds for annulment and fund good church based foster care (or mosque based foster care for Islam) where the kids can be raised well. Therefore you will find that Fascism is actually not entirely unlike progressivism or cosnervatism in what follows:

Designing the society such that the unwanted kids are indeed born but serve the military or other ways into national servitude since they lack parentage.

I am closest to the right wing conservative position and used to hold the left wing progressive position.

I genuinely think we have wrong concepts of the split.

Right wing conservatives and left wing progressives are actually closer on their endgames than either is to their wings' liberal variant.

The Fascists and Communists are differing severe problems at their extremes and both want to violently revolt and take over if allowed to, both are furthest from the liberal of either wing.
Topic's author
#29
Double_R
Double_R's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 5,870
3
2
5
Double_R's avatar
Double_R
3
2
5
-->
@Mall
Why is the Republican gang moving forward in doing things opposed to the Democrats?

Well I suppose they wouldn't be a political party without acting in conservative policies which would not agree with colorful rainbow liberals.
Not one thing I mentioned in the op is a liberal vs conservative issue. Every example I gave is a democracy vs anti-democracy issue.

This is the problem with being in a cult; you lose your ability to tell the difference between a mouse and an elephant. Whatever the cult tells you, that's what it is.
#30
AdaptableRatman
AdaptableRatman's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 2,339
3
4
8
AdaptableRatman's avatar
AdaptableRatman
3
4
8
-->
@Greyparrot
See above.