Skyrim Mafia DP2

Author: Earth

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#181
ILikePie5
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@whiteflame
I'm willing to full claim, but I'd prefer to get some clarity on WyIted's role in particular beforehand. 
He’s the Deputizer. He can invite someone to a private PM and then investigate people. I don’t know how many times he can do that (I asked him not to tell me and cause I frankly don’t care) to keep scum guessing. Whatever results he gets, I get as well. Earth literally in our discord channel said XXXX is innocent.
#182
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@ILikePie5
He’s the Deputizer. He can invite someone to a private PM and then investigate people. I don’t know how many times he can do that (I asked him not to tell me and cause I frankly don’t care) to keep scum guessing. Whatever results he gets, I get as well. Earth literally in our discord channel said XXXX is innocent.
So he recruited you during the DP, then investigates and those results are delivered to the group? I can't say I buy that, man. I had reason to allow it in DP1 because I felt there was a purpose to it, but it sounds particularly strange for this game, particularly with a Forensic Investigator in play. If you died and Mikal used his role on you, how would that work? You'd technically have received results, even though you are yourself not the investigative role.
#183
Mikal
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@whiteflame
I was thinking from a balance thing on DP1 if I targeted wylted, it may have be designed for me and a (scum if wylted added them) to 1v1. Cus they could nk wylted and fake results. I could be the way to balance that. 
#184
ILikePie5
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@whiteflame
So he recruited you during the DP, then investigates and those results are delivered to the group? I can't say I buy that, man. I had reason to allow it in DP1 because I felt there was a purpose to it, but it sounds particularly strange for this game, particularly with a Forensic Investigator in play.
Which is why I also scumread Mikal. But it also brings me back to the point that Luna says I am town with 95% certainty. All 3 of us cannot be scum.

If you died and Mikal used his role on you, how would that work? You'd technically have received results, even though you are yourself not the investigative role.
Didn’t think of this but, I think this implicates Mikal even more. Cause Earth basically mod confirmed Wylted to me by giving the results. For Wylted to be scum, I would have to be scum as well, which I’m not and Luna says I’m not.
#185
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@Mikal
I was thinking from a balance thing on DP1 if I targeted wylted, it may have be designed for me and a (scum if wylted added them) to 1v1. Cus they could nk wylted and fake results. I could be the way to balance that. 
That’s also fair, but I get the results too, so could you see that?
#186
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@Mikal
I was thinking from a balance thing on DP1 if I targeted wylted, it may have be designed for me and a (scum if wylted added them) to 1v1. Cus they could nk wylted and fake results. I could be the way to balance that. 
Still seems off to me, gives town an awful lot of investigative results, specifically alignment-based, and then a means to check that could theoretically apply to everyone WyIted recruits since they all receive results? Either it offers you an excess of opportunities to use your role to confirm basically everyone WyIted recruits or it just creates a group of people who receive results instead of just being part of a Mason group for no reason beyond... I guess Earth really wanting to excessively and internally confirm WyIted within the group he recruits? So town has both an excess of investigatives and simultaneously a lot of internal confirmation?
#187
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@ILikePie5
I would ask but he blocked me
#188
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Got enough on my plate this afternoon that I'm going to have to step out for a bit. If we can sort this out in some way that makes sense when I return, I'll full claim and we can move on. 
#189
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@whiteflame
I can only recruit one person. I thought it was clear. My bad
#190
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Okay walking through my logic on this now. It cannot be pie and wylted, it would have to pie or wylted. 

Pie is confirming wylted, and luna is confirming pie. Only way this makes sense with scum involved is if Pie and Luna are scum. Initially I was thinking wylted and pie are tied but with luna confirming pie, it ties pie to luna only. I cannot fathom a world where wylted is scum if his role works like pie says it works. Because pie says he saw a result. So it can't be pie wylted, because luna is confirming pie which would make wylted pie not possible due to that confirmation. 

Scenario 1

Pie - Luna Scum Team

Scenario 2

RM +1 

Rm is leading a wild lynch chase. Now that earth has confirmed finally that no fake claims ae given the chance of him outing that early and saying a character off the rip seems unlikely. This plays to his and wylteds favor. If they pulled a gambit and just outright risked a cc on either a role or a character as the first claims, its ballsy and something to consider way later on. This is less likely than (1)

Scenario 3

This is likely the most plausible. Casey + WF (or other guy)

In this world RMS results would be correct and he would be town. So scum is between me casey and wylted. The trio of wylted luna and pie are all confirming each other. So it would have to be casey in this scenario. I think this is the mostly likely scenario and I think casey also realized that as scum which is why he pushed me. He saw it faster than me. The most logical way to play this in his shoes is to 1v1 me because trying to get around that triple confirmation (if there is no fuckery), is very hard. 


I think in order of most likely, it is (3), (2) then (1). 

I am trying to think of a world where casey is not scum and I can't. Let's assume casey flips town, that means it would have to be wylted but how would it be wylted with pie confirming him. Again it would mean scum at that point would have to be pie and wylted which isnt possible because luna is confirming pie. 

If casey flips town, scum is RM. That is the only scenario that can happy with the triple confirmation. I'd be super interested to know how luna is confirming pie 







#191
ILikePie5
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@Mikal
Scenario 1

Pie - Luna Scum Team
This scenario is impossible because it means RM is town and therefore there’s at least 1 scum in Wylted/Mikal/Casey
#192
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@Mikal
So fine. Casey or RM is scum 

Fine with lynching both 

Why does Whiteflame keep being excluded from your Poe?
#193
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@whiteflame
 I had reason to allow it in DP1 because I felt there was a purpose to it
I too thought this was a gambit to zilch RM from the game lol

#194
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Alright, I'm here and I'm caught up.

The drama about Earth refraining from answering questions is kind of dumb imo. I personally would have modkilled Mikal for verbatim posting a mod PM like that, complete with timestamp, but mod communications don't typically trigger the no copy-pasting role on this site for whatever reason. It's not my game anyway, so whatever.

As for me, I still do trust Wylted, but I don't know exactly how to mount a defense of myself without knowing exactly why it is that he scumreads me. Like, I do believe him when he says he got investigative results, but I feel like it's also worth pointing out that scum often have roles that directly interfere with investigative roles. I have to assume something like that happened if the evidence really is that 'damning'. 

Regarding Martyr vs Virgin - Earth called my role Martyr, that's all I can say. I think it makes sense in flavor. My role PM doesn't say that my character dies, it just talks about the prophecy.

I understand the sus on me given that I am in PoE and in AR's dream. I just wish Wylted would be more forthcoming with info here. 
#195
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@Lunatic
Im not excluding, that is scenario 2
#196
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@whiteflame
I guess Earth really wanting to excessively and internally confirm WyIted within the group he recruits? So town has both an excess of investigatives and simultaneously a lot of internal confirmation?
Is there a world where earth could have made a scum role that works this way? I know pie is convinced Wylted is town because results shared in a PM. Is it necessarily bastard though for him to do that? Because I’m not convinced this actually confirms Wylted, but it does make it a really good scum role. Just because I know pie is town doesn’t mean I am willing to accept Wylted is 100% town. I get pies logic but I wouldn’t necessarily call that role bastard either, just strong. 

#197
Mikal
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@Lunatic
Pie saw a cop result. If Pie is town Wylted it town or we are already cooked. I am not even considering there is some role that gets fake investigation results. 

I think it's more likely you result is fucked. Are you for certain, whatever you are reading him off of cannot have been altered?
#198
ILikePie5
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@Lunatic
Is there a world where earth could have made a scum role that works this way? I know pie is convinced Wylted is town because results shared in a PM. Is it necessarily bastard though for him to do that? Because I’m not convinced this actually confirms Wylted, but it does make it a really good scum role. Just because I know pie is town doesn’t mean I am willing to accept Wylted is 100% town. I get pies logic but I wouldn’t necessarily call that role bastard either, just strong. 
A role where scum Wylted forces Earth to say certain things in the channel? That’s the definition of bastard lol
#199
Mikal
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@Casey_Risk
because I could alter that to say whatever I want, it is still a believe me situation but I would have outright killed myself over that if it got to it. I don't appreciate he told me abstain from answering a basic a question. Gives pie a answer that is different than what he gave me, then tells me to read the OP and blocks me. If it's as simple as read the OP, duh. Then answer that where everyone can see it and we are not running off a cliff. 
#200
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@Casey_Risk
I understand the sus on me given that I am in PoE and in AR's dream. I just wish Wylted would be more forthcoming with info here. 

That’s why I am asking pie so adamantly if he’s 100% sure here because if there’s some context he is missing, it kind of sucks to blindly trust someone when if we’re wrong I could later say “yeah I might have sensed a whole in that argument if I knew what said argument was”.

On the same hand I am technically asking people to do that with my pie confirmation though so if enough people want it I am willing to claim to make that understood, but I do think the majority would probably agree with me based on my claim that pie is town unless they just straight up thought me and him were the scum team.


#201
Mikal
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If Luna is confident in his result and no way, it could have been tampered with 

Then staying with my thoughts

which is

casey + wf (or other guy)
pie luna
or 
RM +1
#202
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@ILikePie5
Actually you are correct, I did not walk that through to the end. That scenario is not plausible 
#203
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if RM is town 

Pie and Luna both cannot exist as scum together 

and if RM is town there is not a chance wylted can be scum because pie would have to be scum with him and if Luna is confirming pie it's not possible. 


Could be Luna +1 but I feel like I am overthinking this and it's prob just casey. 
#204
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@Mikal
Pie saw a cop result. If Pie is town Wylted it town or we are already cooked. I am not even considering there is some role that gets fake investigation results.
I’m not even suggesting the results could be fake, just that it could be a scum investigator that shares results in a mason PM. Is it really that bastard or out of the question? Because if we are assuming it is and unwilling to consider it otherwise, and he is scum we are giving him the game.

I think it's more likely you result is fucked. Are you for certain, whatever you are reading him off of cannot have been altered?
Mine is more concrete than that and is extremely confirmable. Like i said there is a 5% chance i am wrong, based on pie pulling the craziest scum gambit I’ve ever seen based on the most wild guess that’s ever existed and happened to be right, which the odds of happening are astronomical, but it technically COULD have happened so I say there is a 5% chance that it did, though I don’t fully buy that happened in the slightest.


#205
Mikal
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Luna can be confirming pie for town cred? 

Could be luna RM scum 

but I still am giving RM a lot of credit for coming out off the rip with his claim. 
#206
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@ILikePie5
A role where scum Wylted forces Earth to say certain things in the channel? That’s the definition of bastard lol
I could see myself as mod making a role like that just to teach the lesson of “behavior over role analysis” but I do see why people feel that way .
#207
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@Lunatic
Yeah I am not willing to consider there is some wild role that feeds him cop results. I'll just concede the loss. That is borderline bastard. Maybe not bastard but I am the only role that can catch that, and wylted would have to be dead for me to check it. I just don't see that is possible

If you are sure then, you are sure. I won't question it but we should get results from both you and pie soon. 

I
#208
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@Mikal
If you are sure then, you are sure. I won't question it but we should get results from both you and pie soon. 
I am not directly opposed to this, but just pointing out I obviously will lose all value to my role as soon as I do. If it helps with the POE and eases people’s minds about pie though I am willing to claim.

#209
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Trying to think out every scenario and a lot of this hinges on RM claiming his character and role off the rip with no fake claims present. Same with wylted
#210
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@Mikal
Trying to think out every scenario and a lot of this hinges on RM claiming his character and role off the rip with no fake claims present. Same with wylted
I too give AR a lot of town cred for this, also his relentless and confident pursuit of savant “claiming he knew he was scum” etc. not sure if scum are capable of pretending to be that confident, reminds me of when Wylted did that as town in the last game.