Christianity is, obviously, a force for ill in the world

Author: badger

Posts

Hot
Total: 32
Topic's author
#1
badger
badger's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 2,410
3
3
3
badger's avatar
badger
3
3
3
I think this is a fairly shitty study tbh, but just to give a little extra meat to the post: https://www.psypost.org/feeling-forgiven-by-god-can-reduce-the-likelihood-of-apologizing-psychology-study-finds/
It does also get at the edges of something I have understand for a long time though. And which is obvious, honestly. It wasn't hard to get. 

The whole humans are inherently sinful story, ask forgiveness and be forgiven, gild the church in gold, is obviously to give carte blanche to the person who buys in to do whatever shitty thing is in their heart without ever having to give a thought to who and what they are afterwards. They're a Christian. 

This is something the American right are putting on full show today. And for as long as I've ever argued with them tbh. 

That's the commodity. Sin is what you're purchasing.

There is no god presiding over this farce. Next time you ask forgiveness think maybe if I was a little less shit a person I wouldn't have to.


#2
AdaptableRatman
AdaptableRatman's avatar
Debates: 18
Posts: 2,047
3
4
8
AdaptableRatman's avatar
AdaptableRatman
3
4
8
-->
@badger
To be fair to you, the Irish Catholics had the worst sex abuse scandals alongside the French.
#3
AdaptableRatman
AdaptableRatman's avatar
Debates: 18
Posts: 2,047
3
4
8
AdaptableRatman's avatar
AdaptableRatman
3
4
8
-->
@badger
Just so you know, Catholics arent guaranteed forgiveness by a Priest. He can refuse to absolve them AND tell them to turn themselves in etc.

If the Priest turns them in usually he gets defrocked. Idk if he gets excommunicated, it depends how he justifies it.
Topic's author
#4
badger
badger's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 2,410
3
3
3
badger's avatar
badger
3
3
3
It's really really obvious that this is what Christianity is selling. For millenniums. Freedom to sin.

Find another sort of peace with yourself than telling yourself silly stories. 
#5
AdaptableRatman
AdaptableRatman's avatar
Debates: 18
Posts: 2,047
3
4
8
AdaptableRatman's avatar
AdaptableRatman
3
4
8
-->
@badger
Trump is not Catholic btw.
Topic's author
#6
badger
badger's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 2,410
3
3
3
badger's avatar
badger
3
3
3
Never said he was. Trump's an obvious egomaniac. There's no shred of a conscience in there.

I'm just talking at all the weirdly religious young people on here. You don't get that in Europe. I do wonder what makes the difference.

America, leading the world in religiosity and school shootings. Something in the water I guess. 

#7
LucyStarfire
LucyStarfire's avatar
Debates: 6
Posts: 772
3
3
6
LucyStarfire's avatar
LucyStarfire
3
3
6
-->
@badger
I'm just talking at all the weirdly religious young people on here. You don't get that in Europe.
Europe isnt a country.

#8
LucyStarfire
LucyStarfire's avatar
Debates: 6
Posts: 772
3
3
6
LucyStarfire's avatar
LucyStarfire
3
3
6
-->
@badger
Next time you ask forgiveness think maybe if I was a little less shit a person I wouldn't have to.
I never ask for forgiveness because I belong to religion which doesnt believe in free will. It is stupid to ask for forgiveness unless it is pretending. I also am incapable of feeling guilt.
#9
LucyStarfire
LucyStarfire's avatar
Debates: 6
Posts: 772
3
3
6
LucyStarfire's avatar
LucyStarfire
3
3
6
Just to be clear, free will cannot logically exist in atheist world either, which is why atheism cannot have any morality.
#10
FLRW
FLRW's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,109
3
4
8
FLRW's avatar
FLRW
3
4
8
-->
@LucyStarfire

 atheism cannot have any morality.
Actually equating smartness with qualities like compassion and honesty seems to elevate our understanding of intelligence. It suggests that our mental faculties are not just about processing information or solving complex equations but also about how we navigate our social world — the relationships we build and the memories we create. This perspective invites us to view smartness as something that leaves a lasting, positive impact on those around us and the world at large. It’s about enriching not just ourselves, but the planet with moments of trust, joy, and meaningful connections. Only smart people are atheists.
#11
LucyStarfire
LucyStarfire's avatar
Debates: 6
Posts: 772
3
3
6
LucyStarfire's avatar
LucyStarfire
3
3
6
-->
@FLRW
There is no good and bad, as there is no free will.
#12
fauxlaw
fauxlaw's avatar
Debates: 80
Posts: 4,185
4
7
10
fauxlaw's avatar
fauxlaw
4
7
10
-->
@LucyStarfire
There is no good and bad, as there is no free will.
As there is free will, good and bad exist, as well.  What, a sentient universe told you to be Lucy? It tells you to change your identity at the drop of a hat? Be yourself. Everyone else is taken. Decide on your own to wear pink and meow to your heart's content. Personally, I resent the thought that the universe predestines everything I do. I decide for me, thanks, and I bear the consequences for my choices, good and bad. I have no entitlement but what I provide for myself. I paid for my education out of pocket, not bay any loan that required re-payment, though I'll admit I earned scholarship for most of my undertgrad work. I just obtained my most recent degree last fall. No universe makes those decisions for me, and I claim the knowledge gained for myself, but those decisions benefitted my family. 
#13
LucyStarfire
LucyStarfire's avatar
Debates: 6
Posts: 772
3
3
6
LucyStarfire's avatar
LucyStarfire
3
3
6
-->
@fauxlaw
Nonsense talk.
#14
fauxlaw
fauxlaw's avatar
Debates: 80
Posts: 4,185
4
7
10
fauxlaw's avatar
fauxlaw
4
7
10
-->
@LucyStarfire
You're allowed your opinion without  malice.
#15
FLRW
FLRW's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,109
3
4
8
FLRW's avatar
FLRW
3
4
8

Trump:  "And I want to just thank everybody. And, in particular, God. I want to just say, we love you, God, and we love our great military. Protect them. God bless the Middle East. God bless Israel and God bless America. Thank you very much. Thank you."
Topic's author
#16
badger
badger's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 2,410
3
3
3
badger's avatar
badger
3
3
3
-->
@FLRW
I thought that was incredible as well. 

If you think the antichrist is a thing, how is it not this fucker?
#17
AdaptableRatman
AdaptableRatman's avatar
Debates: 18
Posts: 2,047
3
4
8
AdaptableRatman's avatar
AdaptableRatman
3
4
8
-->
@badger
Antichrist is not solely 1 guy. Its more like a series of significant figures.

Musk and Muhammad are 2 examples of what could be antichrist.

The key thing about AC is they must do severe good and claim to support Christian values in one way yet comppetely betray Christ and his teachings in other ways.

So Anton LaVey for instance cannot be an antichrist.
#18
AdaptableRatman
AdaptableRatman's avatar
Debates: 18
Posts: 2,047
3
4
8
AdaptableRatman's avatar
AdaptableRatman
3
4
8
I think Muhammad was a definite antichrist. Probably the most significant one so far.
Topic's author
#19
badger
badger's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 2,410
3
3
3
badger's avatar
badger
3
3
3
-->
@AdaptableRatman
I am genuinely sorry to see you back on this website dude. It ain't good for you.
#20
AdaptableRatman
AdaptableRatman's avatar
Debates: 18
Posts: 2,047
3
4
8
AdaptableRatman's avatar
AdaptableRatman
3
4
8
-->
@badger
Its always good for you somehow. Only bad for me.
Topic's author
#21
badger
badger's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 2,410
3
3
3
badger's avatar
badger
3
3
3
-->
@AdaptableRatman
Don't think it's much good for me either. I pop around to tell the Americans they're disgusting me every now and again. Not all are, some fine folk here, but that's honestly why I turn up I reckon.

I'll be gone again shortly. I got real life to tend to. 

If I could do anything else about it I would, but again, I got a life to tend to. 
Topic's author
#22
badger
badger's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 2,410
3
3
3
badger's avatar
badger
3
3
3
Compulsion. I might say not to take anything I say too personally, but that'd defeat the purpose. 

Anyway this site is mental illness for me like it is for you RM. Just I spend less time on it. 
#23
IlDiavolo
IlDiavolo's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 1,839
3
2
5
IlDiavolo's avatar
IlDiavolo
3
2
5
There are several Christian doctrines that are not good for people, but never heard of this.

In Catholicism is even worse, if you sin you just need to meet with the priest to confess your sins and the priest will forgive you and sentence you to pray, say, 10 "our father" and 10 "hail mary". It doesn't matter if you commit the same sin over and over again, the priest will always absolve you making you pray as many "our father" and "hail mary" as needed.
#24
AdaptableRatman
AdaptableRatman's avatar
Debates: 18
Posts: 2,047
3
4
8
AdaptableRatman's avatar
AdaptableRatman
3
4
8
-->
@IlDiavolo
The Priest can tell you God refuses to absolve you and you need to repent in specific ways like going to police etc.

It is up to the Priest who channels Holy Spirit directly when giving you the feedback.

That said, abuses have hapoened even at confessionals. I wonder if Holy Spirit is actually guaranteed.
#25
IlDiavolo
IlDiavolo's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 1,839
3
2
5
IlDiavolo's avatar
IlDiavolo
3
2
5
-->
@AdaptableRatman
The Priest can tell you God refuses to absolve you and you need to repent in specific ways like going to police etc.

It is up to the Priest who channels Holy Spirit directly when giving you the feedback.

That said, abuses have hapoened even at confessionals. I wonder if Holy Spirit is actually guaranteed.
Going to the police for cheating your wife? For going to a brothel? For having homosexual sex? For beating your neighbor? That's the kind of sins I'm talking about.

You can be a cheater all of your life. I'll become a Catholic, it sounds great. Hahaha.
#26
AdaptableRatman
AdaptableRatman's avatar
Debates: 18
Posts: 2,047
3
4
8
AdaptableRatman's avatar
AdaptableRatman
3
4
8
-->
@IlDiavolo
You realise protestants need only to confess to God?

Catholics have to risk saying it to a human whi likely knows theur vouce. Oftne they see your face before or after, its not like in the movies much anymore because you line up first.
#27
Ultracrepidarian
Ultracrepidarian's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 72
0
0
5
Ultracrepidarian's avatar
Ultracrepidarian
0
0
5
-->
@badger
Do you want to do a debate on this? 
#28
Swagnarok
Swagnarok's avatar
Debates: 7
Posts: 1,436
3
2
6
Swagnarok's avatar
Swagnarok
3
2
6
Neat theory. It'd be a shame if anything were to poke a hole in it, like any instance of Christians aggressively pushing for behavioral controls that, if successfully realized on a large scale, would have a net positive effect on the world.

Oh wait, Prohibition. Between half and more than three-quarters of all sexual assaults happen when either the perpetrator or victim is drunk. Same for 63% of all violent crimes, 40% of homicides, 30-70% of suicide attempts, 30% of car crash deaths, and so on. Globally, about 2.6 million people die every year from alcohol.

Or laws against infanticide, or against 50 year old men raping barely pubescent prostitutes. The other day I watched the documentary "One Child Nation". In its heyday, you could pretty much find dead babies just walking down the street in China. If that's what it was like in 1990s China, I can scarcely imagine Ancient Rome before Constantine.

Atheists generally don't feel the need to ask anyone's forgiveness, be that God or man, because they're in denial about the dark side of their own natures. Said denial, of course, does nothing to actually make them better people. The first step to fixing any problem is to admit that you have one. Granted, not everyone who so admits goes on to fix the problem, but neither do all but exceedingly few problem deniers.
#29
zedvictor4
zedvictor4's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 13,660
3
3
6
zedvictor4's avatar
zedvictor4
3
3
6
@AdaptableRatman


Muhammad was a simply a bloke with other ideas.

Musk is a bloke with bigger ideas.

Trump is a bloke with a collection of soundbites, that hypnotises 50% of Americans and causes them to chew grass and drool uncontrollably whilst wearing a red cap.

MAGA...Make Americans Gibbering Antichrists.
Topic's author
#30
badger
badger's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 2,410
3
3
3
badger's avatar
badger
3
3
3
-->
@Swagnarok
thett told me the infanticide thing before. I can admit that in the past religion may have brought about change which was good for the human spirit and for our moral evolution. In general I think high morality is a great luxury and it took a lot to get us to where we are today. On that end, I think Christianity was an ingenious piece of social engineering. In more brutal times it brought an order into social life. I think it's a very impressive thing. 

That's the commodity. Sin is what you're purchasing.
But this is still the hook. Tempering inherent sin was the highest attainment it aspired to. A thousand years on, you elected a rapist as president. Religious right in Poland recently elected a pimp. Republican politicians in general are mired in sexual scandals. I think it's very obvious that today the more irreligious a country, the more moral. 

Atheists generally don't feel the need to ask anyone's forgiveness, be that God or man, because they're in denial about the dark side of their own natures. Said denial, of course, does nothing to actually make them better people. The first step to fixing any problem is to admit that you have one. Granted, not everyone who so admits goes on to fix the problem, but neither do all but exceedingly few problem deniers.
Total rubbish. Everyone has base desire and we all know it for what it is. Until Christianity comes along and tells you it's something you slip a couple of bucks to the priest about and carry on. Prohibition? Christianity peddles debasement itself. A very impressive thing.