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@Mopac
^^^
Parables: The Way to Heaven
Posts
Total:
437
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@Discipulus_Didicit
This question is too vague. It seems to me that you have a *fill in the blank* approach to this subject.
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@Mopac
It is not vague at all. There are several very clear claims being made.
1) Orthodox Christianity is correct.
2) Faith is integral to the understanding of the truth, according to Orthodox Christianity.
3) Other religions are incorrect.
4) Faith is integral to the understanding of the truth, according to other religions
The question is exceedingly simple. How do you know that statement three is true? I think statement three is true and I could easily tell you why if you actually cared to hear my opinion on the subject, but you clearly don't. I want to know why you think statement three is true.
This is not vague at all. You are the one making these claims, not me.
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@Discipulus_Didicit
Understanding the truth is not the same thing as abiding in the truth.
The faith is abiding in The Truth.
Without faith that puriifying the heart is meaningful, why would you even attempt this work?
And it is an easy thing to have faith in.
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@Mopac
Fascinating. So how do you know that other religions that claim faith is integral to their theologies are incorrect? You claim that they are but have not told us how you know this.
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@Discipulus_Didicit
I can't know, because your question is absurd.
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@Mopac
I can't know, because your question is absurd.
So you don't know that other religions that claim faith is integral to their theology are incorrect?
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@Discipulus_Didicit
"Other religions" is a fill in the blank. You could literally put anything there.
A religion is a
"a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith"
Wouldn't you say that a good scientists holds to the scientific method with ardor and faith? I would.
Wouldn't you say that a good scientists holds to the scientific method with ardor and faith? I would.
If the desertwisdom link you sent me in PM is any indication of how well you understand how the scientific method works I am extremely hesitant to listen to anything you say about science or scientists.
More importantly though...
"Other religions" is a fill in the blank. You could literally put anything there.
There are hundreds of religions that claim their god is the absolute truth which use the saim faith-based justification that yours uses and which you think are wrong. Hundreds. All I want is for you to tell us why you think they are wrong.
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@Discipulus_Didicit
If the desertwisdom link you sent me in PM is any indication of how well you understand how the scientific method works I am extremely hesitant to listen to anything you say about science or scientists.
I would say that this isn't sound judgement. Discernment is something that naturally improves with a clean Nous.
There are hundreds of religions that claim their god is the absolute truth which use the saim faith-based justification that yours uses and which you think are wrong. Hundreds. All I want is for you to tell us why you think they are wrong
If there are allegedly hundreds of religions that claim as you say, It would not be useful for me make a statement that may apply to many of them but not all of them.
There is One God, One Ultimate Reality. God is not a created thing.
What is the intent of the one who is questioning me?
As I have said before, the state of the heart has a great deal to do with one's intentions.
That is part of what makes up an individual's Nous. Their intentions.
I would say that this isn't sound judgement. Discernment is something that naturally improves with a clean Nous.
Seriously, they make objectively incorrect statements about how science works. If they are your basis for understanding how science works then your understanding of how science works is definitely flawed at a fundamental level. Please watch the video I made and sent you in response to that link you sent me as soon as you are able.
If there are allegedly hundreds of religions that claim as you say, It would not be useful for me make a statement that may apply to many of them but not all of them.
Go ahead and pick any of them that you want. Zoroastrianism, Hinduism, Sikhism, Islam... I could easily tell you why I disbelieve the claims these religions make despite them saying that their gods are the absolute truth. Why don't you tell us why you disbelieve? It is such a simple question.
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@Mopac
That is part of what makes up an individual's Nous. Their intentions.
Since your intentions are to spread lies, hatred and ignorance, what does that make you?
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@Mopac
To glean out some intelligence and learn something. The problem with that of course, is what you offer in response.What is the intent of the one who is questioning me?
There is no such thing as faith without evidence or reasoning
And yet, the definition of the word shows you're wrong, as usual...
Faith - strong belief in God or in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual apprehension rather than proof.
BOTH confidence and trust are based on evidence, experience and knowing
Wrong again, confidence is based on feelings or beliefs which may or may not have evidence, experience or knowing.
Confidence - the feeling or belief that one can rely on someone or something; firm trust. - the state of feeling certain about the truth of something.
Read the Gospels people if you really want to know what it means
The definition above for Faith and Confidence easily applies to Gospels.
FAITH is an ACTION, not an empty belief.
Then, why is the descriptor, "ACTION" not part of the definition of Faith?
Sure, it may not be an empty belief, but it's a belief nonetheless, and it isn't based on evidence, experience or knowing.
You sure love to contradict yourself. Must be awfully humiliating, though.
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@Discipulus_Didicit
So let me get this straight.... you are judging my grasp of how science works based on what you saw written by someone else who you allegedly say doesn't know how science works?
I already told you, I don't watch videos, that isn't going to change.
I am an Orthodox Christian. Why do I need to talk about these other traditions when you yourself don't even believe them? It is a waste of time.
Why don't you tell me why you reject The Ultimate Reality? If you don't believe that, it matters little else what you don't believe.
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@Mopac
Answer the question.
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@Mopac
All 40,000 sects thereof including the other 39,999 sects they don't belong to.
So let me get this straight.... you are judging my grasp of how science works based on what you saw written by someone else who you allegedly say doesn't know how science works?
You're the one that cited them as a reliable source of info. I didn't cite them then claim that you agreed with them. More importantly though...
I am an Orthodox Christian. Why do I need to talk about these other traditions when you yourself don't even believe them? It is a waste of time.
I asked why you believed the claims about the nature of existence made by the Orthodox Christian religion. You answered that you believed "because faith is integral to understanding the truth". Yours is not the only religion that makes that claim though so there must be some way you know your claim to be valid and others to be invalid.
Why don't you tell me why you reject The Ultimate Reality? If you don't believe that, it matters little else what you don't believe.
If you have actually give a damn about what I believe then we can talk about what I believe, sure. I am willing to do so. Perhaps in a new thread though. This one is getting too long.
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@Discipulus_Didicit
Faith is integral to understanding the truth are certainly words you came up to make sense of what I am saying. But truly, you do have to have faith in something to get anywhere. You have to have faith to believe anything, even that there is some reality to what you experience.
And I don't think you understannd that denying God undermines every single thing you say, because you are openly professing to not believe in THE TRUTH.
If we have any discussions at all about what you believe, this elephant in the room can not be ignored. There is nothing reasonable about denying The Ultimate Reality or even simply not believing it exists. This above everything else you think you know should be what you are more certain of than anything. That God exists.
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@Mopac
@Discipulus_Didicit
This thread is fated to go round in circles until the heat death of the universe.Perhaps in a new thread though. This one is getting too long.
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@Mopac
Faith is integral to understanding the truth are certainly words you came up to make sense of what I am saying.
It's a direct quote from post 338. Post 338 was made by you. Your subtle implication that I insidiously put words into your mouth is amusing.
Perhaps if you spent less time dancing around my questions and more time answering them then we would not have a problem where so much time passes that you forget where the question came from.
If we have any discussions at all about what you believe, this elephant in the room can not be ignored. There is nothing reasonable about denying The Ultimate Reality or even simply not believing it exists. This above everything else you think you know should be what you are more certain of than anything. That God exists.
Okay, I see that you are very eager to change the subject to what I believe in order to avoid answering my question. Feel free to start a thread on the topic. Like I said I am happy to answer any questions you have.
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@Discipulus_Didicit
Maybe if you didn't have a habit of making implications, you wouldn't be reading so many implications into what I was saying.
Your "direct quote" is a paraphrase, you trying to make sense of what I am saying.
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@Mopac
You either want to hear my opinions or you only want to talk about your opinions.
If you want to hear my opinions, start a new thread on the topic. I'll answer any questions you have.
If you only want to talk about your opinions then stop using your straw man version of my opinions to avoid my simple question... why do you believe that your theology is correct and other theologies that make the same claim about their gods being absolute truth and faith being 'integral' to understanding it?
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@Discipulus_Didicit
I don't know what you are talking about.
A little bit of faith is necessary to understand a theology. After all, if you dismiss everything, how are the pieces going to fit together to form a consistency?
Theology =/= God
And there is only 1 God, The Ultimate Reality. There is no god that is this.
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@Mopac
And there is only 1 God, The Ultimate Reality. There is no god that is this.
If you concede that is an item of faith and not actually logically entailed we can all go home!
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@keithprosser
This fetishization of logic is a western theological development.
The Ultimate Reality is God. Is this not something that can only be known through revelation?
The Ultimate Reality is God, and I doubt you could think of anything else more worthy to be called that.
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@Mopac
The Ultimate Reality is God. Is this not something that can only be known through revelation?
I hate rhetorical questions! i'm guessing the answer is supposed to be 'no', that is to say 'the Ultimate Reality is god is something that can only be known through revelation'.
In yet other words, the UR is G is not someting you can see with eyes or infer with cold logic; it has to come as a revelation.
i suggest DD goldy and gus say how much they think that is nonsense and then call it a day 'cos nobody is going to change their mind now.
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@keithprosser
Logic and reasoning has no weight to a nihilist.
The real issue here has a more foundational root.
The nihilist does not believe in absolute truth.
And well, Nihilism has been the spirit of the age for quite some time now.
Even people who don't identify as nihilists are influenced by this spirit.
People in fact so uprooted from the source of these things that now we have atheists today who don't even realize that atheism is nihilism 100 years ago, people knew this.
But we live in a very anti-intellectual age. That is what nihilism does to a people.
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@Mopac
100 years ago people were fighting a war using chlorine gas to kill each other in the most horrible way and children with rickets worked in factories. Things haven't really got worse - i wouldn't swap places with a Victorian.People in fact so uprooted from the source of these things that now we have atheists today who don't even realize that atheism is nihilism 100 years ago, people knew this.
Things are better now becuse of secular advances.