Proposal to promote this site and resolve our rivalries peacefully

Author: Savant

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@Savant
I'll think about it. I do like the idea and I think this might be a good way to promote the site, so I give you major props for your effort here. 
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@Savant
Do we want to set up a discord chat for this? I’ll help prep and structure the format. 
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@Mikal
Go ahead and set up the discord how you want it
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@Savant
We prob just need a chat. Let me remove some people so I can add others as friends 
Mikal
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Created a chat for this. If you are participating x up and I’ll add you 
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I’m not the best at debating but I’d be open to help out ofc
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@whiteflame
@Savant
Here’s how I believe my training should look like. Drilling, Sparring, & Voting. (The aim here is for me to memorize the script & rehearse it over and over again.) 

We will choose 1-2 topics in a certain subject. Savant and whiteflame will be my sparring partners. I will debate them both on the subjects with a short time-window multiple times. 

This is sufficient enough for me to grasp the basics and fundamentals of what I’m arguing. The research and everything else committed to memory is all that I need. 
That is how I prefer the training to go. 
If you have any suggestions, I’m open to them. But this is the method and formula I use for all of my video debates. 

What do you guys say? 

(And whiteflame. If you make a refined version of Barney’s voting manual, but style it as a guide to your voting framework specifically. I’ll have a bulletproof way to debate all the time.) 
Think WeaverOfFate’s way making a metrics-based voting system
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@Sir.Lancelot
Here’s how I believe my training should look like. Drilling, Sparring, & Voting. (The aim here is for me to memorize the script & rehearse it over and over again.) 
My experience is that memorizing what you're going to say can do a good deal, but generally works best if you're Pro on a topic. Con usually has to think more on the fly and tailor their argument to what their opponent says. If you're doing the latter, you can still make it work, but best to prepare for like half to 2/3s of a round and shell out some responses to arguments you think are going to be coming.

We will choose 1-2 topics in a certain subject. Savant and whiteflame will be my sparring partners. I will debate them both on the subjects with a short time-window multiple times. 
Sparring is always good. I'll be down.

(And whiteflame. If you make a refined version of Barney’s voting manual, but style it as a guide to your voting framework specifically. I’ll have a bulletproof way to debate all the time.) 
Gotta do that at some point. It's not hard to figure out from my votes, but I don't expect many people to read those and I could be clear and brief about it.
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@whiteflame
We can also do rematches where we switch between Pro and Con. 
You’re going to be out of retirement for a while! 

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@Sir.Lancelot
We can also do rematches where we switch between Pro and Con. 
You’re going to be out of retirement for a while! 
Frankly, been wanting to do this kind of thing for a while, was just about finding others with the motivation. I'm here for it.
AdaptableRatman
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@WyIted
You cannot oppose evil if freedom itself is your moral compass' North Pole.

Freedom from the devil specifically, yes.
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@AdaptableRatman

Freedom and the devil are states of mind, and exist only there.
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@zedvictor4
In a way you are correct about freedom.

We either serve God or the devil.
AdaptableRatman
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🧀✝️🙏🐀📖‼️🪤
WyIted
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@AdaptableRatman
You cannot oppose evil if freedom itself is your moral compass' North Pole.
How come anti freedom people like Hitler and Stalin are good while those who promote freedom like Jesus is bad?
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@WyIted
Jesus did not promote the type of freedom you speak of.

Here is one of is most significant speeches ever no matter which denomination you are (I will bolden and italicise the significant parts to this). It has Catholic interpretation at bottom:
Matthew 5-7
Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition

The Beatitudes
Seeing the crowds, he went up on the mountain, and when he sat down his disciples came to him. 2 And he opened his mouth and taught them, saying:
3 “Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
4 “Blessed are those who mourn, for they shall be comforted.
5 “Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth.
6 “Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be satisfied.
7 “Blessed are the merciful, for they shall obtain mercy.
8 “Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God.
9 “Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God.
10 “Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness’ sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
11 “Blessed are you when men revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account. 12 Rejoice and be glad, for your reward is great in heaven, for so men persecuted the prophets who were before you.
Note, he did not expect you to gey an easy pass to express your righteous opinions or truths. He expected humiliation, persecution etc such as what I have experienced on this website. He says do not flinch, endure it quietly.

Salt and Light
13 “You are the salt of the earth; but if salt has lost its taste, how shall its saltness be restored? It is no longer good for anything except to be thrown out and trodden under foot by men.

14 “You are the light of the world. A city set on a hill cannot be hid. 15 Nor do men light a lamp and put it under a bushel, but on a stand, and it gives light to all in the house. 16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works and give glory to your Father who is in heaven.
The Law and the Prophets
17 “Think not that I have come to abolish the law and the prophets; I have come not to abolish them but to fulfil them.[a] 18 For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the law until all is accomplished. 19 Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

Concerning Anger
21 “You have heard that it was said to the men of old, ‘You shall not kill; and whoever kills shall be liable to judgment.’ 22 But I say to you that every one who is angry with his brother[b] shall be liable to judgment; whoever insults[c] his brother shall be liable to the council, and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ shall be liable to the hell[d] of fire.
Yes, I will/did have to confess and repent about the spat with WF. Not by name, the situation.

I have tried to word the criticism carefully to avoid direct disparsging but eventually either I lie or say it how it is. He is being cowardly directly. I did not say a fool. I am not sure if he is or is not.

What is clear is Jesus opposed the type of freedom of speech Americans have.

23 So if you are offering your gift at the altar, and there remember that your brother has something against you, 24 leave your gift there before the altar and go; first be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift.
This does not mean I must rush to reconcile with Whiteflame. This is in context of either liyeral brother or close friend and/or neighbour. It also leads into a story of debt and implies a minikarmic concept (spread kindness and good will to get it)

I gave my good will here. I still will work with WF if he is clear he will fight against evil here rather than enable it.

25 Make friends quickly with your accuser, while you are going with him to court, lest your accuser hand you over to the judge, and the judge to the guard, and you be put in prison; 26 truly, I say to you, you will never get out till you have paid the last penny.

Concerning Adultery
27 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ 28 But I say to you that every one who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29 If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and throw it away; it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body be thrown into hell.[e][f] 30 And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away; it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body go into hell.[g]
You read that correctly. Reread it. Now realise it is intentional hyperbole but very serious. Do not self harm, instead read further down for Catholic interpretation on this.
Concerning Divorce
31 “It was also said, ‘Whoever divorces his wife, let him give her a certificate of divorce.’ 32 But I say to you that every one who divorces his wife, except on the ground of unchastity,[h] makes her an adulteress; and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.
Concerning Oaths
33 “Again you have heard that it was said to the men of old, ‘You shall not swear falsely, but shall perform to the Lord what you have sworn.’ 34 But I say to you, Do not swear at all, either by heaven, for it is the throne of God, 35 or by the earth, for it is his footstool, or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King. 36 And do not swear by your head, for you cannot make one hair white or black. 37 Let what you say be simply ‘Yes’ or ‘No’; anything more than this comes from evil.[i]
He wanted lying itself to be illegal and hellworthy. I  fact swearing on the Bible in court is a direct sin according to this. No wonder judges and lawyers have often been corrupt.

AdaptableRatman
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@WyIted
Concerning Retaliation
38 “You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.’ 39 But I say to you, Do not resist one who is evil. But if any one strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also; 40 and if any one would sue you and take your coat, let him have your cloak as well; 41 and if any one forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. 42 Give to him who begs from you, and do not refuse him who would borrow from you.
This backs Europe self defense law style far more then US one amd especially makes its 2nd amendment sinful.

Love for Enemies
43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. 46 For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? 47 And if you salute only your brethren, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same? 48 You, therefore, must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
You are held to 24/7 surveillance and have severe Hell to fear if you do anything wrong, even evade tax.

Concerning Almsgiving
6 “Beware of practicing your piety before men in order to be seen by them; for then you will have no reward from your Father who is in heaven.
2 “Thus, when you give alms, sound no trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may be praised by men. Truly, I say to you, they have their reward. 3 But when you give alms, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, 4 so that your alms may be in secret; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you.
Concerning Prayer
5 “And when you pray, you must not be like the hypocrites; for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and at the street corners, that they may be seen by men. Truly, I say to you, they have their reward. 6 But when you pray, go into your room and shut the door and pray to your Father who is in secret; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you.[j]
7 “And in praying do not heap up empty phrases as the Gentiles do; for they think that they will be heard for their many words. 8 Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him. 9 Pray then like this:
Our Father who art in heaven,
Hallowed be thy name.
10 Thy kingdom come,
Thy will be done,
    On earth as it is in heaven.
11 Give us this day our daily bread;[k]
12 And forgive us our debts,
    As we also have forgiven our debtors;
13 And lead us not into temptation,
    But deliver us from evil.[l]
We say trespass mire than debyors despite Catholic translations generslly supporting debtor interpretation. Debtor adds way too little scope to it.

It again does imply forgiving yor rulers rather than ever revelling/revolting but if you analyse it, Christ did support revolutions when no other way to serve the Lord and spread the faith exists (he died on cross as a treasonous criminal after all)

14 For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father also will forgive you; 15 but if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

Concerning Fasting
16 “And when you fast, do not look dismal, like the hypocrites, for they disfigure their faces that their fasting may be seen by men. Truly, I say to you, they have their reward. 17 But when you fast, anoint your head and wash your face, 18 that your fasting may not be seen by men but by your Father who is in secret; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you.
This is akin to banning all angry propaganda either wing uses.

Concerning Treasures
19 “Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust[m] consume and where thieves break in and steal, 20 but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust[n] consumes and where thieves do not break in and steal. 21 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.
The Sound Eye
22 “The eye is the lamp of the body. So, if your eye is sound, your whole body will be full of light; 23 but if your eye is not sound, your whole body will be full of darkness. If then the light in you is darkness, how great is the darkness!
Serving Two Masters
24 “No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon.[o]
Do Not Worry
25 “Therefore I tell you, do not be anxious about your life, what you shall eat or what you shall drink, nor about your body, what you shall put on. Is not life more than food, and the body more than clothing? 26 Look at the birds of the air: they neither sow nor reap nor gather into barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not of more value than they? 27 And which of you by being anxious can add one cubit to his span of life?[p] 28 And why are you anxious about clothing? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they neither toil nor spin; 29 yet I tell you, even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these. 30 But if God so clothes the grass of the field, which today is alive and tomorrow is thrown into the oven, will he not much more clothe you, O men of little faith? 31 Therefore do not be anxious, saying, ‘What shall we eat?’ or ‘What shall we drink?’ or ‘What shall we wear?’ 32 For the Gentiles seek all these things; and your heavenly Father knows that you need them all. 33 But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things shall be yours as well.
34 “Therefore do not be anxious about tomorrow, for tomorrow will be anxious for itself. Let the day’s own trouble be sufficient for the day.
Judging Others
7 “Judge not, that you be not judged. 2 For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and the measure you give will be the measure you get. 3 Why do you see the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? 4 Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye.
Profaning the Holy
6 “Do not give dogs what is holy; and do not throw your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under foot and turn to attack you.
Ask, Search, Knock
7 “Ask, and it will be given you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. 8 For every one who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened. 9 Or what man of you, if his son asks him for bread, will give him a stone? 10 Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a serpent? 11 If you then, who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give good things to those who ask him! 12 So whatever you wish that men would do to you, do so to them; for this is the law and the prophets.
The Narrow Gate
13 “Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is easy,[q] that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. 14 For the gate is narrow and the way is hard, that leads to life, and those who find it are few.
A Tree and Its Fruit
15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thorns, or figs from thistles? 17 So, every sound tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears evil fruit. 18 A sound tree cannot bear evil fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus you will know them by their fruits.
Concerning Self-Deception
21 “Not every one who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ 23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you evildoers.’
Hearers and Doers
24 “Every one then who hears these words of mine and does them will be like a wise man who built his house upon the rock; 25 and the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat upon that house, but it did not fall, because it had been founded on the rock. 26 And every one who hears these words of mine and does not do them will be like a foolish man who built his house upon the sand; 27 and the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell; and great was the fall of it.”
28 And when Jesus finished these sayings, the crowds were astonished at his teaching, 29 for he taught them as one who had authority, and not as their scribes.
Footnotes
  1. 5.17 Jesus came to bring the old law to its natural fulfilment in the new, while discarding what had become obsolete; cf. Jn 4.21.
  2. Matthew 5:22 Other ancient authorities insert without cause
  3. Matthew 5:22 Greek says Raca to (an obscure term of abuse)
  4. Matthew 5:22 Greek Gehenna
  5. Matthew 5:29 Greek Gehenna
  6. 5.29 An exaggeration to emphasize the need to avoid occasions of sin.
  7. Matthew 5:30 Greek Gehenna
  8. 5.32 unchastity: The Greek word used here appears to refer to marriages that were not legally marriages because they were either within the forbidden degrees of consanguinity (Lev 18.6-16) or contracted with a Gentile. The phrase except on the ground of unchastity does not occur in the parallel passage in Lk 16.18. See also Mt 19.9 (Mk 10.11-12), and especially 1 Cor 7.10-11 which shows that the prohibition is unconditional.
  9. Matthew 5:37 Or the evil one
  10. 6.6 This does not, of course, exclude public worship but ostentatious prayer.
  11. Matthew 6:11 Or our bread for the morrow
  12. Matthew 6:13 Or the evil one. Other authorities, some ancient, add, in some form, For thine is the kingdom and the power and the glory, for ever. Amen.
  13. Matthew 6:19 Or worm
  14. Matthew 6:20 Or worm
  15. 6.24 mammon: i.e., riches.
  16. Matthew 6:27 Or to his stature
  17. Matthew 7:13 Other ancient authorities read for the way is wide and easy

You get the idea.
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@AdaptableRatman
You are trying to complicate this. There is either freedom or tyranny. No in betweens. you are either pro freedom or pro tyranny because there has never and will never be a society that can balance both correctly. 
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@WyIted
Let me know if you read the passages fully.
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@WyIted
you are either pro freedom or pro tyranny because there has never and will never be a society that can balance both correctly
The problem is logical consistency and slippery slope. Once people learn that they can take away freedom under the excuse of safety, they are not going to stop.
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@LucyStarfire
But he is simply wrong on every count.

Christianity consistently values safety over freedom unless battling against direct evil in which case it gets grey area.
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Christianity consistently values safety over freedom
Thats nonsense, as safety without freedom is literal Hell.

Mikal
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I feel like the entire premise of Christianity is freedom 
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@AdaptableRatman

We either serve God or the devil.
By the devil, you mean Trump, right?
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@LucyStarfire
Freedom without safety is nonliterally Hell but is literally the path to Hell because you end up an unwitting slave of Satan.
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Freedom without safety is nonliterally Hell
Not really. And you cant have both safety and freedom.

Mikal
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The entire baseline for biblical Christianity is freedom. God gave you freedom of your sins. He gave you the freedom to chose or decline salvation and through that freedom, you would then gain safety. 

Talking past social norms and what is factual with society but biblically. Safety is gained by freedom. 
AdaptableRatman
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No it is not.

It is freedom from Satan and succumbing to evil yes. It is not freedom how you think it is.

I literally quoted a key speech by Kesus in Gospel of Matthew highlighting thst he is not pro freedom in the libertarian sense at all.
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@LucyStarfire
You can have some freedom and some safety yes you can.
Mikal
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I’m saying as a Christian, the entire baseline of salvation is freedom. 

If you are talking about freedom as in being governed  by laws (Christianity and or laws of the land), then freedom and security can’t coexist because freedom implies absence of consequence.