Proposal to promote this site and resolve our rivalries peacefully

Author: Savant

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#1
Savant
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The Robbers Cave experiment, conducted by Muzafer Sherif in the 1950s, studied intergroup conflict and cooperation among 22 boys in Oklahoma. Initially separated into two groups, they developed group identities. Introducing competitive tasks led to hostility between groups. Later, cooperative tasks reduced this conflict, highlighting the role of shared goals in resolving group tensions.


I propose that instead of arguing with each other, we band together with one goal: defeat a notable streamer on Modern-Day Debate. How do we do this? Well, instead of isolating ourselves by simply competing with each other, we select one representative and devote our energy to helping train them for a live debate. Ideally we can pick someone like whiteflame who already has experience in that regard.

I know a lot of the people arguing with each other on this site consider each other friends. There's no reason to fight each other when we can be combining our efforts to send someone against professional debaters like Destiny, Vaush, and Dillahunty. All of them are on MDD, and all we need is a willing challenger who can prove themselves on that platform and petition to go against a top-level debater. With our skills combined, we have everything we need to train someone to that level.
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#2
Savant
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@whiteflame
@Mikal
@Sir.Lancelot
@WyIted
@AdaptableRatman
Thoughts?
#3
Mikal
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@Savant
You basically summarized a business model Max and I have lol. 

Issue is getting Hasan/Destiny/Vaush to do it. They have no incentive to actually want to debate and you would need to be ready to capitalize on the momentum and promote the site/new site. Most of them won’t take formal debaters. Most qualified is white flame and he would have to act like a moron and then drop a bomb if a debate was actually secured. 

But in general, getting personalities like that involved in anyway and being ready to monetize or capitalize off the momentum is a good idea. 
#4
whiteflame
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@Savant
I'm down to do something like this. Definitely going to have to shake off the rust if I'm going to be doing the debating, but I'd be happy to either take on the role or help train someone else to do it. Really have to check out some of MDD's professional debaters as well.
#5
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@Savant
It’s an excellent idea
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#6
Savant
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@Mikal
Issue is getting Hasan/Destiny/Vaush to do it. They have no incentive to actually want to debate and you would need to be ready to capitalize on the momentum and promote the site/new site. Most of them won’t take formal debaters.
You'd be surprised. Dillahunty went against a decent formal debater and seemed rather unprepared. Then there was the infamous Vaush H2O debate. I think they'd be fine going against someone as long as we prove they aren't a nobody.
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#7
Savant
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@AdaptableRatman
Would you be interested in this? It seems like you're interacting with a lot of these people already, and I know deep down you do respect some of them. Seems like you're less likely to be bullied if we're not competing against each other.
#8
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@Savant
I mean in general I think logistically it’s free advertising if you can find a way to make it happen. Whiteflame by and far needs to be the community choice and we should all be working on this site or the new site well before it happened, so we have a way and somewhere to funnel people to. 

Max and I have constant conversations about if we could get destiny or Hasan into mafia etc. They love arguing and mafia is arguing without the PR nightmares that come from real world events. I’m all for this if we can find a way to do it. 

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#9
Savant
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@Mikal
We can start training well before the new site is out or do development at the same time. I think to get an audience with those people, it would help for WF to already have a reputation crushing debaters on the Discord.
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#10
Savant
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@Bones
I know you'd probably be interested in this project.
#11
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@Savant
Also doubt this works in the way you want it to but I appreciate the attempt to deescalate. Never have issues interacting with him if he’s behaving normally. But the sentiment is there regardless. 
#12
Mikal
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@Savant
Hopefully David just gets power of this and it solves itself but yeah again, if you know a way to contact them and make it happen, it’s free marketing. The YT/Twitch space is mostly the debate space and you named a vast majority of the people who have a bottle neck on it. Then you pick a hot button topic and pray for the algorithm to work. 
#13
AdaptableRatman
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@Savant
Na I am not at all happy to work with a seriously abusive person who frankly shouldnt be allowed on this website at and who has said a lot he has to apologise for to me.

As for the mdd fame angle, that would lead to potential doxxing of me, I definitely dont want to get famous. Im sure of that Ill get cancelled idk if Ill get in more trouble.

I do hope Mikal gets held to what he says though. He has abused me so much now I hope others know what hes like.
#14
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@Savant
Told you. It’s exhausting. But this idea is still great 
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#15
Savant
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@AdaptableRatman
Na I am not at all happy to work with a seriously abusive person who frankly shouldnt be allowed on this website at and who has said a lot he has to apologise for to me
First, you don't have to work with Mikal, you can just work with whiteflame at separate times. Second, if you work with him, he's more likely to apologize. Third, is it any better arguing with him in the forums?

As for the mdd fame angle, that would lead to potential doxxing of me
You can stay behind the scenes helping WF train.
#16
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@Savant
WF is my enemy.

#17
ResurgetExFavilla
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Destiny was retarded enough to insert himself into a debate between two actual scholars on opposite sides of an issue and make a complete ass of himself. He seems like your best bet. Vaush and Hasan seem smart enough to realize that they would not thrive in a formal debate setting with a prepared opponent.
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#18
Savant
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@AdaptableRatman
Defeat your enemy by making him your friend.
#19
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@ResurgetExFavilla
Hasan is a shallow shill as far as I have seen.
#20
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@AdaptableRatman
Hasan is a shallow shill as far as I have seen.
All three are, but Hasan at least appears to be aware of it.
#21
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@Savant
Did you ask me if I agree to it or tell me you want to do it?
I don't agree. I know what peace is btw.

I need to focus on irl stuff regardless especially jobwise.

There are many reasons why I don't agree to it. One thing I learned in my time back is I was not the problem alone. The problem here is far deeper. I was part of it but top to bottom this place is corrupt.

MDD discord is/was not exactly a land of the holy. I have a few reasons I want to avoid this. They extend to both MDD, here and my real life.

Everything points to it being wise to stay out of this.

You are meddling with the demonic and that is not a metaphorical claim.
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#22
Savant
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@AdaptableRatman
meddling with the demonic
WF and Mikal aren't literally demons. If they're in danger of being possessed by demons, then abandoning them probably makes the problem worse. Especially if you believe you could be a good influence.
#23
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@whiteflame
@Savant
WF is a Jew. I heard they are pretty awful and demonic. At least that’s what Hasan tells me. 
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#24
Savant
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@AdaptableRatman
I need to focus on irl stuff regardless especially jobwise.
But you're also planning a revolution on the site, right? I mean if you've got time, you may as well try to be a good influence on WF and Mikal. Arguing in forums isn't the best way to achieve that.
#25
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@Savant
David will own the site.

Mike now or David later is the ultimate person to blame for the corruption.

David fixing it is likely to either go how they want it to (which won't fix it) or go well since I know David's natural moral compass is a lot better than most here based on past conduct as a mod.

You can try your ways. I trust completely in God.

If it works out, that is good for you (unless it backfires later). If not, that is bad for you.

I am tired of this drama and the gaslighting that then somehow gets called my drama or my gaslighting.

I assure you, I don't want to work with them. You'd have to make it an actual paid job for me to be open to work with them.

I don't think you realise how badly Mikal has been treating me or just how manipulative and cruel it was for WF and Barney to promote me and drop me like that. In fact, Barney and maybe even David are a lot more to blame for that than WF. WF is what he is. I cannot stand him anymore. So, WF wanting me demoted makes more sense. Barney acted friendly to me the whole time but I really do wonder what is going on there. It is not just what Sir Lancelot told me. It is actually how he has treated me, conducted himself and been since then.

He truly betrayed me in every sense of the word but he seems clueless about it. He also is seemingly lazy and naive. He literally will let someone hack into his account rather than try to moderate better himself.

I think things are going bad for him elsewhere and he is unhappy. I forgive him of course.

I know what it is like to feel that way. It is Sunday for me. Today is about God and peace. I don't need this nonsense. Haters will hate. 🤷‍♂️🙏✝️🕊️

Peace doesnt always mean working with someone. Peace can be in chilling alone separate from some who persist to disturb yours.

I also remember your ridiculing of me. I am not stupid here. I remind you of what I told pie. Even if I would standalone respect you, I see who you align with. It tells me enough.
#26
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@Savant
God can save them, it is their choice to turn away and do evil over and over.

Asking an abuse victim to work with their abuser and high rank enabler of said abuser is pretty vile. I advisr
Wyou to stop using religoous analogies to gaslight me into things. It did not work with the martyr mafia reference and won't work now.

If I did not understand martyrdom as a concept I would have gone long ago from here at the first suffering experienced. I never called myself it becauseiteral bodily harm, starvation and death are worse (though I do fast more for religious reasons and it has cost me muscle wise since I am naturally high metabolism).
#27
zedvictor4
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Some people are their own worst enemy.
#28
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@Savant
Resolving rivalries is a contradiction in terms.

Peacefully is a behavioural option.
#29
Bones
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@Savant
Surprisingly, I think the best place to make a splash is on TikTok and discord. There's a niche and semi prominent scene (see here, here, and here) which gets a several thousands of views discussing philosophy (mainly theology and abortion, as well as other niche topics pertaining to meta ethics and epistemology). Having debated in these communities before, I think it would make a bigger impact than a showing on Modern-Day-Debates. 
#30
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@Bones
I think it would make a bigger impact than a showing on Modern-Day-Debates
Those are not mutually exclusive. We can be on Tik Tok, YouTube, Discord, Instagram (maybe?) and Modern Day Debate. There is no reason for us not to be literally everywhere.