Atypical DP3

Author: Lunatic

Posts

Total: 132
#31
Vader
Vader's avatar
Debates: 30
Posts: 15,856
5
8
11
Vader's avatar
Vader
5
8
11
-->
@Savant
Which I guess makes sense for a Roleblock and a Redirector to exist, but even still doesn't that seem somewhat underpowered?
Why do you assume that just because scum has roleblocker and redirector means they can't have any other abilities? They could have a JOAT for all we know.

I am going from what I know. When did I say they could/couldn't have more? 
#32
Vader
Vader's avatar
Debates: 30
Posts: 15,856
5
8
11
Vader's avatar
Vader
5
8
11
-->
@Casey_Risk
Wylted is still on the table as well. He has been awfully quiet this entire game. Again, if Pie is scum and the NK is either one of you too, it has to be Wylted. It would make sense too since fmpov Pie tends to not interact as much with his scum partners compared to the town when he's scum. 
#33
Savant
Savant's avatar
Debates: 25
Posts: 4,237
4
7
6
Savant's avatar
Savant
4
7
6
-->
@Vader
When did I say they could/couldn't have more? 
You said it was "underpowered." I don't see how it's underpowered if they could have more.
#34
Vader
Vader's avatar
Debates: 30
Posts: 15,856
5
8
11
Vader's avatar
Vader
5
8
11
-->
@Casey_Risk
You literally did it to set up a mislynch against Pie using your roles.
Right, I did it to set up a mislynch against the person it would be hardest to get mislynched, instead of just going after an easy target like you or Wylted. You really believe that?
Yes because like I said, your vanillizer role and Savant's result would make it very possible to set this that lynch up. If it's a 3v2 (which I'm fairly certain it is), you need to choose 3 people. Setting up Pie, but keeping your scum read on me allows multiple mislynch options. So yes instead of having 2 options you got 3 with faking Pie's results

You consistently said we need to lynch Ultra and then theorized about a possible mislynches then acted on it by outting fake results and vanillizing Pie. Pretty easy coast thru tbh 
You're not making any sense. I was the only one directing attention AWAY from Ultra. And my results obviously weren't fake because Banana's role was real. 
This is 100% wifom. You were fully on board with the Ultra lynch and lynching him. You did not redirect any attention otherwise someone got lynched. You did redirect Savant's lynch in DP1 when he was on the chopping block to Earth though.

I'm not saying your results that you got from Banana were fake. I'm saying no one besides Savant can vouch for you giving an item to someone. There is literally 0 people who can besides Savant and I am not trusting on Savant. So you really are not confirmed in any sense. 
#35
Vader
Vader's avatar
Debates: 30
Posts: 15,856
5
8
11
Vader's avatar
Vader
5
8
11
-->
@Savant

When did I say they could/couldn't have more? 
You said it was "underpowered." I don't see how it's underpowered if they could have more.
That combo is underpowered yes. But that is what is "known." I am playing based on what is known. Luna typically makes weird and shifty roles as mafia where there are layers to that role. But again I'm working with what I know and when we do learn more. We know that...

- A roleblocker exists (Casey)
- A redirector exists (you & Casey)
- A vanillizer exists (Pie)

These are what we know and what has been claimed.

I just think the way this NP went and the actions claimed were extremely convienant. Ok so you get the item off a redirect of Casey. Ok. So in NP2 instead of watching an un CC'd cop you watched Casey instead of Pie (who was Inno Child DP3 claimed and we could've truly known if he was lying and this DP is over) or Banana (who we could've potentially seen who killed). Instead you convienantly targetted Casey, who is by no means confirmed and just so happens to visit Pie the minute Casey suggests that Pie was scum DP2?

Sorry that seems like a setup and a half
#36
Vader
Vader's avatar
Debates: 30
Posts: 15,856
5
8
11
Vader's avatar
Vader
5
8
11
-->
@Savant
Not to mention by targetting Banana you could actually see if Casey gave them something and who roleblocked Casey too. Sorry this is all a bit too convienant to set up a mislynch
#37
Savant
Savant's avatar
Debates: 25
Posts: 4,237
4
7
6
Savant's avatar
Savant
4
7
6
-->
@Vader
you convienantly targetted Casey, who is by no means confirmed
Since Casey was role confirmed to me and I'm the one doing the targeting, why does that not make sense?
#38
Vader
Vader's avatar
Debates: 30
Posts: 15,856
5
8
11
Vader's avatar
Vader
5
8
11
I'm pretty confident in my analysis of the situation for the most part. But again I would like to hear what Pie has to say and would like for Wylted's analysis as well. Again there could be perspectives I am not seeing.
#39
Vader
Vader's avatar
Debates: 30
Posts: 15,856
5
8
11
Vader's avatar
Vader
5
8
11
-->
@Savant
you convienantly targetted Casey, who is by no means confirmed
Since Casey was role confirmed to me and I'm the one doing the targeting, why does that not make sense?

Role confirmation =/= affiliation indicating. Pie is literally there claiming a DP3 innocent child and you don't watch him in case of a night kill of some sorts but you only choose the person who was role confirmed. Not to mention we knew the NK targets would not be Casey, this just seems like poor use of a role or you're bullshitting
#40
ILikePie5
ILikePie5's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 17,731
3
7
10
ILikePie5's avatar
ILikePie5
3
7
10
-->
@Vader
@WyIted
Okay the game is solved and the scum team is confirmed Casey/Savant. With Casey’s vote on me and Supa/Wylted not hammering, it proves that Supa/Wylted cannot be scum team. It’s confirmed either Casey or Me as scum from a vote mechanic perspective. Casey is 100% scum and combined with the fact that Savant is just outright lying about me visiting Casey, that’s the logical team. It mechanically cannot be anything else because Supa + Wylted would’ve hammered me by now.

If you look back, Casey was setting up a mislynch on me DP2. Why even consider a Pie/Vader team with a Guilty on Ultra right in front of you. There was zero reason to believe Ultra was innocent unless you already had that knowledge beforehand meaning, an informed scum perspective. If you look even further back to DP1, she was setting me up as a mislynch with the whole bs about “scum slip.” 

Looking further back, the kill on Mikal makes a boat load of sense now. He sussed both Casey and Savant for being on the Banana wagon. If they thought he was the Cop, it makes tremendous sense to kill him. Even if they didn’t, kill Mikal who literally caught both scum DP1 makes sense.

Also Supa, note the chances of Luna’s list that he gave you. I presume it was randomized, but what are the odds that if I am scum my exact fake claim is on that list in addition to my real role. I had soft claimed “G” for Greta Thunberg DP1, and Innocent Child is the only thing that fits with that character, so I would’ve had my fake claim and role planned before you even used your role on me AND my fake claim appeared randomly on your list. The odds of that are astronomical. This point is the most damning. Mechanically the likelihood of this happening is basically 0.

Let’s look at behavior. Go reread Casey’s posts. Her behavior in DP1 and DP2 is basically identical. She wasn’t happy with Earth lynch and was wishy washy right up till the moment she voted Earth. Now in DP2 Casey unvoted Ultra and consider whether he’s town, until…she voted him again. 

Casey is scum and Savant is the scum partner.

VTL Casey
#41
Vader
Vader's avatar
Debates: 30
Posts: 15,856
5
8
11
Vader's avatar
Vader
5
8
11
-->
@ILikePie5
What was your justification for innocent child again?
#42
Savant
Savant's avatar
Debates: 25
Posts: 4,237
4
7
6
Savant's avatar
Savant
4
7
6
-->
@Vader
Role confirmation =/= affiliation indicating
Why would scum have the ability to give people bulletproof vests?

Pie is literally there claiming a DP3 innocent child and you don't watch him in case of a night kill of some sorts
I just remember Pie claiming he was inno child and not saying what day. Looking back apparently he told Casey he was dp3. But he was in no way confirmed, so why would I watch him?

we knew the NK targets would not be Casey
Why not? I didn't know that.
#43
Vader
Vader's avatar
Debates: 30
Posts: 15,856
5
8
11
Vader's avatar
Vader
5
8
11
Pie has a pretty damn good point as well about that random comedian generated. I am going the precog the argument Casey is going to make about "you could've just coordinated with your comedian buddy about the roles you wanted to generate," but then again why would I include a JOAT on there and criminalize my partner versus generating a pure town result. Would not make sense really.

Also the soft claim G makes very much sense with that role too. But I want to see the justification for that character to role
#44
ILikePie5
ILikePie5's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 17,731
3
7
10
ILikePie5's avatar
ILikePie5
3
7
10
-->
@Vader
What was your justification for innocent child again?
I’m Greta Thunberg and I am the DPX (not going to reveal exactly when) Innocent Child. Justification is that I began my climate activism a very young age and influenced the world to care about climate change. At the same time though, I received a lot of criticism and harrassment because of my age.

Posted it in DP2
#45
Vader
Vader's avatar
Debates: 30
Posts: 15,856
5
8
11
Vader's avatar
Vader
5
8
11
Role confirmation =/= affiliation indicating
Why would scum have the ability to give people bulletproof vests?
They don't. You would be simply lying. Not to mention no one else can confirm they received anything because they were convienantly roleblocked
Pie is literally there claiming a DP3 innocent child and you don't watch him in case of a night kill of some sorts
I just remember Pie claiming he was inno child and not saying what day. Looking back apparently he told Casey he was dp3. But he was in no way confirmed, so why would I watch him?
Because he would be confirmed DP3, meaning the game is a 2v2. Assuming Banana is still the NK it's a 2v2 with Wylted Casey you and I because Pie is inno. Less mislynch options to go to if you are scum. Plus if anything funky happened to Pie (like what happenend now), you can see who visited him and who's bullshit
we knew the NK targets would not be Casey
Why not? I didn't know that.
Uhmmm, because Pie, an inno child next DP, and Banana, an un CC'd cop, are way more critical to town and who mafia would target for a kill. Basic 101 mafia lol
#46
Vader
Vader's avatar
Debates: 30
Posts: 15,856
5
8
11
Vader's avatar
Vader
5
8
11
-->
@ILikePie5
Noted.

I want to hear Wylted's thoughts first about the situation

#47
Casey_Risk
Casey_Risk's avatar
Debates: 5
Posts: 2,038
3
5
8
Casey_Risk's avatar
Casey_Risk
3
5
8
-->
@ILikePie5
I'm also at work right now but I can explain in great detail all my reads and how I solved this game when I get home.
#48
Savant
Savant's avatar
Debates: 25
Posts: 4,237
4
7
6
Savant's avatar
Savant
4
7
6
-->
@Vader
You would be simply lying.
Again, we're talking about from my POV if I was town why would I watch someone who gave me a bulletproof vest? You don't seem to dispute that if I'm actually the watcher and telling the truth about that, I should trust Casey

he would be confirmed DP3
Or he could lie or BS something like claiming to be conveniently "vanillized." And again, I missed him saying he was dp3 child, I just remembered him saying he was DPX. So if he was scum from my POV he could just say he was dp4.

Banana, an un CC'd cop
With a miller that holds a lot more weight, but after Ultra flipped innocent, what reason did I have to believe banana? Your role claim is basically a weak cop too.
#49
ILikePie5
ILikePie5's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 17,731
3
7
10
ILikePie5's avatar
ILikePie5
3
7
10
Gotta get back to work. I’ll be back when I’m at the gym.


#50
Casey_Risk
Casey_Risk's avatar
Debates: 5
Posts: 2,038
3
5
8
Casey_Risk's avatar
Casey_Risk
3
5
8
-->
@Vader
Uhmmm, because Pie, an inno child next DP, and Banana, an un CC'd cop, are way more critical to town and who mafia would target for a kill. Basic 101 mafia lol
Lot to respond to right now, I'll post when I can, but I'll start with this. No, this is all wrong. Anyone with any experience in this game could see that the NK was almost definitely going to be either me or Banana. 
#51
Casey_Risk
Casey_Risk's avatar
Debates: 5
Posts: 2,038
3
5
8
Casey_Risk's avatar
Casey_Risk
3
5
8
Pie's 'solve' is full of holes, give me time to rebut it
Topic's author
#52
Lunatic
Lunatic's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 10,701
3
3
6
Lunatic's avatar
Lunatic
3
3
6
Official Vote Count:

Pie- 1/3- casey
Casey- 1/3- pie


#53
Vader
Vader's avatar
Debates: 30
Posts: 15,856
5
8
11
Vader's avatar
Vader
5
8
11
-->
@Casey_Risk
This is just completely wrong lol...
#54
Casey_Risk
Casey_Risk's avatar
Debates: 5
Posts: 2,038
3
5
8
Casey_Risk's avatar
Casey_Risk
3
5
8
-->
@ILikePie5
Okay the game is solved and the scum team is confirmed Casey/Savant. With Casey’s vote on me and Supa/Wylted not hammering, it proves that Supa/Wylted cannot be scum team. It’s confirmed either Casey or Me as scum from a vote mechanic perspective. Casey is 100% scum and combined with the fact that Savant is just outright lying about me visiting Casey, that’s the logical team.
This logic only works if we assume you're telling the truth in the first place. From the perspective of an objective outsider, the team could just as easily be you and Vader. 

If you look back, Casey was setting up a mislynch on me DP2. Why even consider a Pie/Vader team with a Guilty on Ultra right in front of you.
I already responded to this point. Why on Earth would I set up an elaborate theory trying to frame you, who no one else believed was scum except maybe Banana when I could have just chilled, let Ultra get lynched, and then tried to frame Vader or Wylted? It would have been a borderline idiotic play for me as scum to draw that much attention to myself when I could have just relaxed and no one would have thought anything of it.

There was zero reason to believe Ultra was innocent unless you already had that knowledge beforehand meaning, an informed scum perspective. 
Not true. The way Ultra acts when he's about to be lynched as town is very different from when he's scum. Go look at games like Ace Attorney DP1, Years DP3, or Middle School DP2, then compare and contrast Classic Movies DP2. Town Ultra glumly accepts his fate but wants to know why he's being sussed. Scum Ultra fights against his lynch, really poorly. This game, he was acting like his town self, and there was other stuff going for him, which is why I was quest the result. Besides, I was never against lynching him, I was just exploring a 'what-if'.

If you look even further back to DP1, she was setting me up as a mislynch with the whole bs about “scum slip.”
I still think it may have been a scum slip. No one else had posted about the questions thing in the OP, I don't think, and I feel like you as town would have mentioned it before if you had noticed it. Like I said, genuine, clear scum slips in this game are vanishingly rare. Most slips are subtle. Besides, you identify a slip that isn't actually a slip every other game, so you're being mighty hypocritical here.

Have to split this up into two parts, will finish my rebuttal in a bit.
#55
Casey_Risk
Casey_Risk's avatar
Debates: 5
Posts: 2,038
3
5
8
Casey_Risk's avatar
Casey_Risk
3
5
8
-->
@ILikePie5
Looking further back, the kill on Mikal makes a boat load of sense now. He sussed both Casey and Savant for being on the Banana wagon. If they thought he was the Cop, it makes tremendous sense to kill him. Even if they didn’t, kill Mikal who literally caught both scum DP1 makes sense.
The problem with this sort of NK analysis is that it's very prone to WIFOM. Sometimes people are killed for sussing the right players, yes. But sometimes they are killed to make it look like the players they sus are scum. Just look at Heroic Heroes or Microbiology Mafia. In both games, I as town put heavy sus on another player who turned out to also be town during DP1, and ended up being the NP1 kill to put further sus on them. As you can see from Heroic Heroes DP3, it clearly worked on Austin at least. Hell, even in Microbiology, it worked on me!

But while I'm sure you thought it was a good move at the time, especially after you saw the flip, you fucked up when you killed Mikal. He was in my PoE and I still sussed him. I wouldn't have been able to solve this game so easily if he was still alive.

Also Supa, note the chances of Luna’s list that he gave you. I presume it was randomized, but what are the odds that if I am scum my exact fake claim is on that list in addition to my real role.
Vader is your scum partner, so this means nothing. Also, you're way overselling this interaction.

Let’s look at behavior. Go reread Casey’s posts. Her behavior in DP1 and DP2 is basically identical. She wasn’t happy with Earth lynch and was wishy washy right up till the moment she voted Earth. Now in DP2 Casey unvoted Ultra and consider whether he’s town, until…she voted him again. 
Right, so I did something scummy by expressing my doubts about the Earth lynch and explaining why, Mikal called me out for it, then I proceeded to... Do the exact same thing again on the very next DP, except 10 times more blatant? Don't you think my partner would have tried to steer me away from that? Or do you just think I'm dumb? Because I promise you, I am NOT that dumb. And don't just say 'WIFOM', either. There's a difference between making a risky play and a just plain bad one.
#56
Casey_Risk
Casey_Risk's avatar
Debates: 5
Posts: 2,038
3
5
8
Casey_Risk's avatar
Casey_Risk
3
5
8
The way Ultra acts when he's about to be lynched as town is very different from when he's scum. Go look at games like Ace Attorney DP1, Years DP3, or Middle School DP2, then compare and contrast Classic Movies DP2. Town Ultra glumly accepts his fate but wants to know why he's being sussed.
Oh yeah, and of course the aforementioned Mayday Mafia as well. The reason I was doubting the Owen lynch there is the same reason I was doubting it in this game.
#57
Casey_Risk
Casey_Risk's avatar
Debates: 5
Posts: 2,038
3
5
8
Casey_Risk's avatar
Casey_Risk
3
5
8
-->
@Vader
This is 100% wifom. You were fully on board with the Ultra lynch and lynching him. You did not redirect any attention otherwise someone got lynched. You did redirect Savant's lynch in DP1 when he was on the chopping block to Earth though.
You're blatantly pivoting, just like you did in Years Mafia. It's a noob scumtell that you still show. I never said that we need to lynch Ultra, I was just not opposed to an Ultra lynch. And I clearly did direct attention away from Ultra and onto possible teams not involving him, namely you and Pie. Plus, I think it was abundantly clear from my interactions with and about you DP2 that I had a strong scumread on you even then.

Youre also just blatantly lying about me redirecting attention away from Savant DP1. It was Pie that took the initiative and took votes from everyone, and that's how we decided that day's lynch. Your attempt to put the blame squarely on me is as pitiful as it is obvious.
#58
Casey_Risk
Casey_Risk's avatar
Debates: 5
Posts: 2,038
3
5
8
Casey_Risk's avatar
Casey_Risk
3
5
8
Also, that's not wifom. Learn what wifom actually is.
#59
Casey_Risk
Casey_Risk's avatar
Debates: 5
Posts: 2,038
3
5
8
Casey_Risk's avatar
Casey_Risk
3
5
8
-->
@ILikePie5
Now in DP2 Casey unvoted Ultra and consider whether he’s town, until…she voted him again. 
Oh yeah, and this is just wrong as well. I was NOT on Ultra's wagon come the end of the DP. You can check for yourself.
#60
WyIted
WyIted's avatar
Debates: 39
Posts: 8,959
4
4
9
WyIted's avatar
WyIted
4
4
9
-->
@ILikePie5
Are we at MYLO? I can read some stuff despite half passing things until now. I won't hammer wrong if it's in my hands at the moment