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@WyIted
We are at LYLO. I have voted for Pie and he has voted for me, so don't vote for anyone yet. It's Pie and Vader tho.
Atypical DP3
Posts
Total:
132
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@Casey_Risk
Why am I waiting if it's pie and Vader?
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@Vader
Who is supposedly scum?
We are thinking scum team waited until DP2 to vanillaize so who would that be on the scum team that would do that?
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@WyIted
Why am I waiting if it's pie and Vader?
Because no one is at L-1 yet, so if you vote now, the game's over.
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@Casey_Risk
So did pie try to trick me by claiming he was at L1 earlier or did somebody remove a vote
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@WyIted
I want to hear your thoughts and reads. I personally am leaning toward Savant and Casey but if there's something that I'm not realizing lmk
And no one ever said it was L-1, that might've been DP2
And no one ever said it was L-1, that might've been DP2
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@Vader
We have how many people confirming pie is scum? I mean what do you want me to do? He is an innocent child that failed to materialize. I am willing to look at other things but the fact you seem to dismiss him as an option is sending up red flags tbh
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@WyIted
I'm not dismissing it. Again, I'm pointing out the different options there are at this point. It's damning but it is also damning Savant didn't target Banana or Pie at all instead just tried to confirm it.
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@WyIted
I find it a major red flag that our only watcher didn't keep an eye on the Innocent Child or the Cop we had to see where the NK come from and instead targetted someone that was not town locked by any means and how that person was suddenly just roleblocked
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@Vader
I am going to have to read through a lot to solve this and it ain't happening tonight. So far I believe casey
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@Vader
That's a fair point
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@WyIted
I mean if Pie is scum town are going to lose because the focus is obviously going to shift toward me next DP and from there unless we get some crazy result we are going to lose so idk. I think Pie has a pretty strong case for him but knowing that I'm town and how Dp4 will likely end if Pie turns scum, I'd rather just take an L with my reads rather than get lynched and get blamed for not being convincing enough
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@WyIted
Again, Casey is trying to make it out like I'm just blatently disregarding the points being made. If that was the case I literally would have no reason to not vote Casey unless I was trying to draw insane town cred, which at DP3 is kinda pointless especially in a MYLO situation.
Pie could 100% be on some bullshit timing. I am not a huge fan of his behavior at this point in time and the obviously easy answer is that he wasn't an Inno Child. Even if he claimed his name was the letter G, it is very broad and could work for anything. Seemed a bit jumpy on some of the lynches in the beginning. But I wouldn't say anything he did stood out to me that isn't what he normally does.
Pie could 100% be on some bullshit timing. I am not a huge fan of his behavior at this point in time and the obviously easy answer is that he wasn't an Inno Child. Even if he claimed his name was the letter G, it is very broad and could work for anything. Seemed a bit jumpy on some of the lynches in the beginning. But I wouldn't say anything he did stood out to me that isn't what he normally does.
But again, how do we know he is lying? Maybe Savant is noob but in the case of a claimed inno child which he said was DP3, why wouldn't he target him to see if anything happened. Or better yet why wouldn't he target a claimed cop at this point to see a potential NK? And isn't really convinenant that Casey just suddenly got roleblocked after the only person they targetted was myself, which convienantly got redirected to Savant, which then convienantly let Savant to see pie vist casey?
Just a lot of convienance that everything worked out twice for them.
Just a lot of convienance that everything worked out twice for them.
The only argument that Casey really has is that I'm pivoting. So first it was a scum read because of my claim which they "never seen before" despite it being fairly common to a degree and on the roles list. Then it was a question of pivoting when I have remained pretty consistent on my beliefs. So what even is the argumen there?
Anyway going to the driving range for a bit so won't be online at all for the next hour
Anyway going to the driving range for a bit so won't be online at all for the next hour
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@Vader
Maybe Savant is noob but in the case of a claimed inno child which he said was DP3, why wouldn't he target him to see if anything happened.
Savant really isn't a noob anymore and he already clearly explained his reasoning. As for you, FYPOV this game really has to be either me and Savant or Pie and Wylted, assuming you're town. I guess me and Pie is also technically a possibility if you really think I'd go for the long bus like that, but you'd also have to believe I was able to give Savant a BP vest as scum. So it's really me/Savant or Pie/Wylted for you, and you don't really seem to be attacking it from that angle. Do you buy the scum team being Pie/Wylted, and why or why not? That's the only thing you should really have to make up your mind on in order to be able to make a decision here.
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@Vader
The only argument that Casey really has is that I'm pivoting. So first it was a scum read because of my claim which they "never seen before" despite it being fairly common to a degree and on the roles list. Then it was a question of pivoting when I have remained pretty consistent on my beliefs. So what even is the argumen there?
So much wrong here. The pivot was that you first said I was insistent on lynching Ultra while still putting sus on you. I pointed out that this isn't true at all and I was the only one exploring other possibilities. You then pivot to saying that I was still supportive of his lynch and clearly wasn't actually directing attention elsewhere because Ultra still got lynched... Even though I wasn't even on his wagon and obviously had a strong scumread on you.
But this argument is pure projection, because you were clearly trying to set me up for a mislynch yesterday, making a whole argument about how Savant and I could be scum while playing coy about it. It's very obvious what you were doing.
And no, you're role clearly isn't common because no one else here has heard of it before! Maybe it was more popular way back when and that's why you decided to claim it, but that doesn't exactly look good for you.
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@Vader
Maybe Savant is noob but in the case of a claimed inno child which he said was DP3, why wouldn't he target him to see if anything happened. Or better yet why wouldn't he target a claimed cop at this point to see a potential NK?
You keep repeating this point, but you seem to be starting from the assumption that I'm lying about receiving an item from Casey. Since I'm not lying, it makes sense for me to watch Casey since (a) Casey was my top town read from day 1 and (b) Casey's role is confirmed to me. Either scum were gonna let Casey be role confirmed today or interfere with her action or kill her. Whereas Pie or banana could just be lying, so it didn't make as much sense to watch them.
And isn't really convinenant that Casey just suddenly got roleblocked after the only person they targetted was myself, which convienantly got redirected to Savant, which then convienantly let Savant to see pie vist casey?
I'm not sure how any of this is "convenient." If Casey and I are a scum team, none of this would be needed because I could just say Pie visited banana instead.
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@Casey_Risk
Savant and pie could be scum together right? Again I have barely read the first two dps
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@WyIted
Savant and pie could be scum together right? Again I have barely read the first two dps
Technically yes, but not really. There'd be no reason for Savant to bus Pie here, he could just try to say he saw Vader visit Banana instead. I would have probably fallen for it hook, line, and sinker.
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@Vader
@WyIted
@Casey_Risk
This logic only works if we assume you're telling the truth in the first place. From the perspective of an objective outsider, the team could just as easily be you and Vader.
Yes, but the game is basically solved from both of our POVs. So it all comes down to behavior.
I already responded to this point. Why on Earth would I set up an elaborate theory trying to frame you, who no one else believed was scum except maybe Banana when I could have just chilled, let Ultra get lynched, and then tried to frame Vader or Wylted? It would have been a borderline idiotic play for me as scum to draw that much attention to myself when I could have just relaxed and no one would have thought anything of it.
This is all WIFOM. And I’ll tell you why you had to frame me. Because I was the Innocent Child, you had to make sure I wouldn’t be confirmed town, and you knew I wouldn’t because yall had a Vanillaizer up your sleeve.
Not true. The way Ultra acts when he's about to be lynched as town is very different from when he's scum. Go look at games like Ace Attorney DP1, Years DP3, or Middle School DP2, then compare and contrast Classic Movies DP2. Town Ultra glumly accepts his fate but wants to know why he's being sussed. Scum Ultra fights against his lynch, really poorly. This game, he was acting like his town self, and there was other stuff going for him, which is why I was quest the result. Besides, I was never against lynching him, I was just exploring a 'what-if'.
So if you were town reading him behaviorally, why are you bringing this up now? You could’ve just as easily said guys, I think Ultra may be town. You had a doubt he was town, but you didn’t say anything on the record, but instead ran a “what-if” scenario? That’s opportunistic.
I still think it may have been a scum slip. No one else had posted about the questions thing in the OP, I don't think, and I feel like you as town would have mentioned it before if you had noticed it. Like I said, genuine, clear scum slips in this game are vanishingly rare. Most slips are subtle. Besides, you identify a slip that isn't actually a slip every other game, so you're being mighty hypocritical here.Have to split this up into two parts, will finish my rebuttal in a bit.
So your “slip” that you found is somehow accurate just because it’s subtle? That’s just a lie. Scum slips are often blatant, and are real.
The problem with this sort of NK analysis is that it's very prone to WIFOM. Sometimes people are killed for sussing the right players, yes. But sometimes they are killed to make it look like the players they sus are scum. Just look at Heroic Heroes or Microbiology Mafia. In both games, I as town put heavy sus on another player who turned out to also be town during DP1, and ended up being the NP1 kill to put further sus on them. As you can see from Heroic Heroes DP3, it clearly worked on Austin at least. Hell, even in Microbiology, it worked on me!But while I'm sure you thought it was a good move at the time, especially after you saw the flip, you fucked up when you killed Mikal. He was in my PoE and I still sussed him. I wouldn't have been able to solve this game so easily if he was still alive.
So you’re saying that scum Pie killed Mikal, who hard townread Pie just because of WIFOM?
What’s more believable? Scum killed Mikal because Mikal scumread both members of the scum team (Casey/Savant) or Pie killed Mikal who hard townread Pie for WIFOM?
Vader is your scum partner, so this means nothing. Also, you're way overselling this interaction.
Vader is mechanically confirmed town to me.
Right, so I did something scummy by expressing my doubts about the Earth lynch and explaining why, Mikal called me out for it, then I proceeded to... Do the exact same thing again on the very next DP, except 10 times more blatant? Don't you think my partner would have tried to steer me away from that? Or do you just think I'm dumb? Because I promise you, I am NOT that dumb. And don't just say 'WIFOM', either. There's a difference between making a risky play and a just plain bad one.
You forgot the intermediate step:
You killed Mikal.
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@Casey_Risk
Oh yeah, and this is just wrong as well. I was NOT on Ultra's wagon come the end of the DP. You can check for yourself.
Yes, I’ll retract that. But it was a foregone conclusion anyways. You didn’t have to.
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@WyIted
Are we at MYLO? I can read some stuff despite half passing things until now. I won't hammer wrong if it's in my hands at the moment
No, it’s LYLO. It’s mechanically confirmed that either Casey or I am scum.
Read this post as a TL:DR for why Casey is town from a behavioral perspective:
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@WyIted
Who is supposedly scum?We are thinking scum team waited until DP2 to vanillaize so who would that be on the scum team that would do that?
Savant/Casey.
The reason why waited till NP2 to Vanillaize is simple. They didn’t know who the PRs were or what they were. Only Earth and you had claimed at that point and neither of you were PRs.
And Savant chose to watch Casey instead of Banana (who is a confirmed cop or me) or me (who was going to be confirmed Innocent Child today)
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@WyIted
So did pie try to trick me by claiming he was at L1 earlier or did somebody remove a vote
No, I pinged you and Supa to not vote me because I have the solve from vote mechanics and the behavior.
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@WyIted
We have how many people confirming pie is scum? I mean what do you want me to do? He is an innocent child that failed to materialize. I am willing to look at other things but the fact you seem to dismiss him as an option is sending up red flags tbh
The only people that are “confirming” Pie is scum are the scum team of Casey/Savant. They are not confirmed to anyone else except themselves.
They knew they had a Vanillaizer and used it on me. And Savant conveniently watched Casey instead of Banana knowing full well he could lie about me visiting him on top of vanillaizing me and my innocent child not materializing.
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@ILikePie5
Read this post as a TL:DR for why Casey is town from a behavioral perspective:
I appreciate you putting that together to make my job easier
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@Savant
Why did you watch Casey?
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@Vader
Pie could 100% be on some bullshit timing. I am not a huge fan of his behavior at this point in time and the obviously easy answer is that he wasn't an Inno Child. Even if he claimed his name was the letter G, it is very broad and could work for anything. Seemed a bit jumpy on some of the lynches in the beginning. But I wouldn't say anything he did stood out to me that isn't what he normally does.
Are you serious? I cannot be town from your perspective. What are the exact odds that my fake claim of innocent child lands in the 3 role list Luna gave. And which other famous person who’s name starts with a G and is a child would be in the game besides Greta Thunberg—especially since we know at his point that the theme is likely Autism
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@ILikePie5
Pie, I will give you credit where credit is due - you are much better at this than Vader.
This is all WIFOM. And I’ll tell you why you had to frame me. Because I was the Innocent Child, you had to make sure I wouldn’t be confirmed town, and you knew I wouldn’t because yall had a Vanillaizer up your sleeve.
This doesn't really address my point, however. Why not just coast through DP2, use the Vanillaizer NP2, then try and frame you by having Savant say he saw you visit Banana? Not only would that have been way easier to pull off, it also would have been far less risky than having me put all that attention on myself unnecessarily.
So if you were town reading him behaviorally, why are you bringing this up now? You could’ve just as easily said guys, I think Ultra may be town. You had a doubt he was town, but you didn’t say anything on the record, but instead ran a “what-if” scenario? That’s opportunistic.
I was going back and forth on the matter in my mind. I did think he might have been town, but I wasn't sure, and I was very convinced in my (Ultra, Vader, Pie) solution anyway (still am). I might have pushed harder to get Vader lynched instead but absolutely no one seemed interested in that, and I did see your point about you using a Framer on him being unlikely. Ultimately, Ultra was 50/50 in my mind but I figured his lynch would solve the game either way. If he's Guilty, his partner is probably Vader. Otherwise, it's you and Vader. I still stand by that.
So your “slip” that you found is somehow accurate just because it’s subtle? That’s just a lie. Scum slips are often blatant, and are real.
No, they're not. Show me one example of a blatant scumslip in a game. The only one I think I've ever seen was GP in Gunplay Mafia, and that was Greyparrot.
So you’re saying that scum Pie killed Mikal, who hard townread Pie just because of WIFOM?What’s more believable? Scum killed Mikal because Mikal scumread both members of the scum team (Casey/Savant) or Pie killed Mikal who hard townread Pie for WIFOM?
Who said it just had to be for WIFOM? You yourself speculated that he may have been killed for being a potential Cop. Why doesn't that apply to you as well? Roles were up in the air after DP1 - the only living player who had fullclaimed was Wylted, and it would have been a waste to kill him.
Besides, that sort of NK analysis can be a convincing argument as I already brought up. When I got killed NP1 in Microbiology Mafia, I thought that was a sure sign that at least one of you and Banana was scum.
Vader is mechanically confirmed town to me.
He shouldn't be. How do you know you weren't role copped?
You forgot the intermediate step:You killed Mikal.
You forgot to actually rebut my argument. Do you think I blatantly ignored my partner, or do you think Savant and I are just really dumb? I'll openly admit I'm not the greatest at this game, but I know better than to do that, all while making the same mistake I made the last time I was scum with Savant - tying myself too closely to my partner.
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@WyIted
I appreciate you putting that together to make my job easier
You’re welcome