Terraria Mafia #1 - DP2

Author: Mharman
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DP2
Terraria Mafia

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#181
whiteflame
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@ResurgetExFavilla
There was no flipped poisoner. There was a flipped 1x JOAT town poisoner. Why give town a role solely devoted to counter a 1x town ability? Unless there is a scum poisoner, the role makes no sense.
Points for accuracy I guess. He still was a Poisoner. I didn't say the role exists solely for the Town Poisoner, I said it makes sense that a response could exist from Town. It would make less sense for it to exist in response to a 1X role if that's all that exists, on that much we agree, but as I said to Pie, a scum Poisoner is absolutely not out of the question.

Something about whiteflame has been niggling me the whole game and I think I just grasped a little bit on it. It seems to be that Whiteflame is very concerned about not being nightkilled, is very concerned about not being lynched, and is not very concerned about hunting scum.
This is a baffling take, dude. I said in DP1 that it would have been my aim to draw the NK, but fake claiming a PR and getting CC'd was far more certain to lead to my mislynch. When Mikal led the charge on my lynch and we were at the last few hours of the DP, I actively volunteered to hammer myself if it came down to it. As for being "not very concerned about hunting scum", if that's your interpretation, so be it. I was calling out Vader for a good while after he clarified his claim. I've mainly been focused on my townreads so far this DP, so no, I haven't had a chance yet to start detailing my other reads. I can't help if that bothers you, and it seems like your issues are generally with how I scumhunt (which isn't dramatically different this game than it has been in others, whether I'm town or scum). I don't get the perspective at all that I'm somehow diffusing lynches. I get that I'm low activity this game and that my claim is inherently sus. Those are things I've actively admitted to, so if they make me scummy, not much I can do about that.

I was keeping quiet about this because I thought he might be a mason but I just reread this DP and realized that he visited Banana, who was the top scumread at the close of last DP. There is zero reason for a mason to make that visit. IMO the top likely scenarios are some sort of role that wouldn't clue a town player in to the fact that something was being done to them. Not a roleblocker or something like that, but a third party recruiter (which would clue them in while changing their alignment so they wouldn't squeal) or a scum framer. At first, I thought from a role perspective that a framer actually makes the most sense.
I don't get how you jumped from it to a recruitment mechanic - sounds like a bit of modpsych. A lot of the rest of this is pure speculation.

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#182
Mharman
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Vote Count

Banana (2/7) - Wylted
Ultra (2/7) - Banana, Lunatic
Resurget (1/7) - Cerulean
Lunatic (1/7) - Resurget

Not Voting (7) Mikal/Castin, Ultra, Pie, Casey, Savant, Joebob, Whiteflame
#183
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VTL ceru 

I do want to go iso Luna at some point. I think some combination or 

Luna
Skep
Wf
Ceru


Is prob the answer.
#184
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Also, I have a reason to believe that an evil player was roleblocked last Night. If someone wants to claim that, they're free to do so and I can elaborate. Not 100% necessary, we're not in a bad position right now, but I just want to put that on the table.
I want ceru to clarify on this. I need to go back and iso and read so I can actually develop some hard reads. Been half assing this dp and last dp cus of the floods. We have had a big national project 


But more than that, ima just say it because it’s not outing anything that scum don’t know at this point. Ana basically hard claimed doctor or bp and it’s because she doesn’t game, that she would not see how her character ties to that. 

I think Anna is town so the next question is do we need a doctor and a healer? That means mafia would have 2 nks. You would not put a healer to counter balance 1nk that positions. That doesn’t make sense. It would have to be consistent or a few x poisons and I don’t think that role would exist to counter just tv. 


I think there is bs there but I’m going to iso the players on the above list. 
#185
Lunatic
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I don't think a strengthener is a scummy claim. Its towns only recourse against a roleblocker, thats pretty powerful.
A commuter is also a very powerful role for town to have, but it's scummy because it's alignment neutral. Strengthener is also alignment-neutral and can be used to explain away visits for more nefarious purposes. I didn't say that it wasn't powerful, only that it's a claim that scum would make.
Commuter? wtf are you talking about?
#186
Lunatic
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@ILikePie5
My third issue with Ceru is the character. It’s tied to Black Slime in the sense that Campfires are naturally found in the Underground and Cavern layers, which I think may be the theme split. Overworld items vs underground items. The only issue is the possible fake claims out there.
That’s not the split because my role literally tells me I am into underground caverns too.
#187
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@ILikePie5
Issue for me is that it was a “weak” slip. Not even really a slip, and he just went hard. I also hated Supa’s reaction.
You are ignoring the latter half of the reasons I pursued supa. At first he was just the best option. But then he wasn’t scum hunting, omgused and admitted hiding PM mistakes from town for self preservation reason which had contrasted behavior from a recent game and I pointed all this out many times during the late day phase surge to get him lynched.
#188
Lunatic
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@ResurgetExFavilla
This DP Pie seems a lot more town than Luna. His scumhunting seems more pointed and driven, he's asking the right questions, he's analytical. Luna reads like the scumhunting is very lazy and that he's coasting on towncred, which makes me give the bus theory a bit more credence.
VTL Luna
lol your wagging pies retarded logic because you realize I am a threat to you. I’ve been lazy? I have been trying to focus the inacgives  like Joebob and ultra. But if you want me back on track let’s talk about the fact that you defended supa multiple times last day phase, flip
Flopped only to him when someone like pie made a compelling case, but never seemed willing to commit to the lynch until the last moment. I told people we needed to focus you this day phase and now your convienently ongusing me cuz I’m a threat. I get it buddy. But time to answer for your crimes.


Vtl ref
#189
Lunatic
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@Mikal
Help me pressure ref. You told me last day phase he would be in the POE if Vader flipped scum. Let’s put money and mouths together and get AJ explanation from him. Not letting him back out of this one.
#190
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@ResurgetExFavilla
We saw contradictions in his behavior and story; the soft claim was just the catalyst that generated that original activity. Mikal sought out soft claims only. Now you want over half of town to have claims out there DP2 when we're down a cop.
You are not “we”. You constantly made excuses for Vader and avoided that lynch like the plague until the last second and only joined it because it looked inevitable. Acting like you thought this was obvious  in hindsight is sus af.
#191
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Also whoever is liking pies posts anytime he says anything remotely adverse to me, I see you and I know your manipulation strategy. You fvcker.
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#192
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Vote Count

Banana (2/7) - Wylted
Resurget (2/7) - Cerulean, Lunatic
Ultra (1/7) - Banana
Lunatic (1/7) - Resurget
Cerulean (1/7) - Mikal/Castin

Not Voting (6) Ultra, Pie, Casey, Savant, Joebob, Whiteflame

Every once in a while, sandstorms will hit the world’s deserts. New enemies spawn, and they are especially threatening in hardmode.
#193
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Catching up rn
#194
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@Lunatic
I want to iso first. I have been half assing and want to take the time to read all this back now that it’s the weekend. 
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#195
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@Castin
Second activity ping
#196
ResurgetExFavilla
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@Lunatic
You are not “we”. You constantly made excuses for Vader and avoided that lynch like the plague until the last second and only joined it because it looked inevitable. Acting like you thought this was obvious  in hindsight is sus af.
More lies/lazy scumhunting. I even already referenced this in a reply for you. I scumread Supa in my final list of reads (#642), put him as one of my top lynch targets, and then hammered him when it looked like the clock might run out with a NL.

9. Vader - Lean scum
Now that I'm not longer eliminating the possibility of him coming up with a fake claim his behavior seems a lot more plausible from a scum motivation standpoint. I'd like to hear more from him on his claim.
Supa was literally my only lean scum read, my strongest scum read, I opposed the people pushing for a NL over a Supa lynch, and I said:

I'd prefer lynching one of the more inactive players as I think that scum is more likely to be hiding there DP1, but I would settle for a Supa lynch. I hate no-lynching DP1 because it's one less flip to shed light on DP1 behaviors during DP2. I don't care about the math.
I logged in towards the end of the DP, looked at what Supa had to say about his claim, found it dissatisfactory, and hammered him. It's not like I had a billion posts between these all in which my read and support for that lynch could be forgotten. A simple iso on me would have revealed it. So, are you scum reading me without even looking at an iso? This post was at 07.09.2025 12:30PM I hammered Supa at 07.10.2025 10:59AM, so I had been scum reading him and holding him out as a lynch target for almost 24 hours. Why are you lying/lazy?
#197
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Vtl Luna

It's strange to me Luna can't attest to my visit. Granted, I think it would only be apparent if he had a night action to use last night. The new "even nights only" information seems like a convenient way to not verify me and to justify not strengthening anyone last night. 

#198
Lunatic
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Vtl Luna

It's strange to me Luna can't attest to my visit. Granted, I think it would only be apparent if he had a night action to use last night. The new "even nights only" information seems like a convenient way to not verify me and to justify not strengthening anyone last night. 

I am town. If you lynch me you are a fvcking retard. 
#199
Lunatic
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@Ultracrepidarian
dont be a fvkcing retard
#200
Lunatic
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@ResurgetExFavilla
More lies/lazy scumhunting. I even already referenced this in a reply for you. I scumread Supa in my final list of reads (#642), put him as one of my top lynch targets, and then hammered him when it looked like the clock might run out with a NL.
Lazy scum reading? You are riding the coat tails of MY lynch you dumb mother fvcker. Who was the first one on supa? who lead the fvcking lynch? You argued against it at every fvcking turn retard. You hammered him because it would have been scummy as f not to at that point. 

Supa was literally my only lean scum read, my strongest scum read, I opposed the people pushing for a NL over a Supa lynch, and I said:

And the second mikal started waffling you put him right back in your town pile. Don't try to change the narrative guy.

I logged in towards the end of the DP, looked at what Supa had to say about his claim, found it dissatisfactory, and hammered him. It's not like I had a billion posts between these all in which my read and support for that lynch could be forgotten. A simple iso on me would have revealed it. So, are you scum reading me without even looking at an iso? This post was at 07.09.2025 12:30PM I hammered Supa at 07.10.2025 10:59AM, so I had been scum reading him and holding him out as a lynch target for almost 24 hours. Why are you lying/lazy?
An Iso on you revealed that you had more posts against lynching supa than for it. You literally changed to supa because you HAD to otherwise you would have looked scummy. Too bad, still looks fvcking scummy. 
#201
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On second though Lunatic is the reason Vader got lynched. That more than cancels out my suspicions. Unvote 
#202
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On second though Lunatic is the reason Vader got lynched. That more than cancels out my suspicions. Unvote 
#203
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@Lunatic
More lies/lazy scumhunting. I even already referenced this in a reply for you. I scumread Supa in my final list of reads (#642), put him as one of my top lynch targets, and then hammered him when it looked like the clock might run out with a NL.
Lazy scum reading? You are riding the coat tails of MY lynch you dumb mother fvcker. Who was the first one on supa? who lead the fvcking lynch? You argued against it at every fvcking turn retard. You hammered him because it would have been scummy as f not to at that point. 


Supa was literally my only lean scum read, my strongest scum read, I opposed the people pushing for a NL over a Supa lynch, and I said:


And the second mikal started waffling you put him right back in your town pile. Don't try to change the narrative guy.
Can't respond at length now but anyone can do an iso on me right now and see this is am abject lie. Never did I ONCE put Mikal in my scum pile, I read him as town since the second he was confirmed and sought his help reading you.


Your fixation on getting credit for your lynch also reeks of a bus
#204
Lunatic
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@ResurgetExFavilla
Can't respond at length now but anyone can do an iso on me right now and see this is am abject lie. Never did I ONCE put Mikal in my scum pile, I read him as town since the second he was confirmed and sought his help reading you.

I didn't say you put mikal in your scum pile, who is the one lying now? Wtf are you even talking about? Im guessing your drunk? Sounds like some good wine, share it with me next time. I said you were riding his coat tails and stopped boarding the supa train the second he did. 

Your fixation on getting credit for your lynch also reeks of a bus
Considering how rare busses are, and how I don't have a recent history with bussing as scum, its kind of hilarious how much this argument is being used against me. This is an argument that shouldn't even be getting any credence til LYLO. I should be prima facie assumed town for leading that lynch. 

That's you getting copped innocent and me just hardcore pushing your lynch because I have a theory you are a god father. You may be the godfather, but my theory that you are one doesn't stand alone as a reason to lynch you. Just like your theory that I am bussing doesn't standalone as a decent reason to lynch me. I don't even think you would be confident enough to do this if pie wasn't nipping at my heals. 
#205
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@Lunatic
If your not strengthener what are you? And you are saying you didn’t get a message from Ultra?
#206
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@Lunatic
@ResurgetExFavilla
I’m going to go back and read through this DP again before giving a more detailed read list. For now, I’ll just say that I’m not ruling out a bus entirely, but I’d sooner believe that Resurget bussed than Luna, since the latter practically dragged the lynch through from the start while the former lightly sussed Vader on the late side and then hammered.

That being said, I think this whole thing is distracting and it seems town v town. I don’t love Luna’s Even Night addendum to his claim, but I can’t see him going this hard to distance himself from his scum partner. As for Resurget, maybe he hammered to get some towncred, but he had the opportunity to post a vote on me instead and it wouldn’t have been difficult to justify at that point. If he had, I could just as easily been the lynch since I was offering to self-hammer with WyIted’s assistance.

So as of right now, I townread both of you and I think this is a waste of time.
#207
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@Ultracrepidarian
Also, I’d really like to know what this is all about. The idea was that Luna would have received some message, but only if he used an active role? Are you hinting at a Town RB?
#208
Lunatic
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Let's take a detailed look at Ref's scum read progression on Vader since he's calling me a liar. 


All Offenses where Ref defends vader:

Blatant 1st Offense: Ref immediately counter votes me when I place my vote on his scum buddy. https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/12994-terraria-mafia-1-dp1?page=8&post_number=240



(At this point he pretends to flip flop) https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/12994-terraria-mafia-1-dp1?page=14&post_number=400 (Notice here he even sets me up as scum bussing in the case vader is scum, can't ever give anyone appropriate town cred for pursual of this lynch lol)

Blatant 3rd Offense: https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/12994-terraria-mafia-1-dp1?page=14&post_number=397 (Defending his scum buddies fake claim against mikal)


Starts diminishing his read on Vader by saying it doesn't qualify as a "LAL thing": https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/12994-terraria-mafia-1-dp1?page=15&post_number=435 ('This isn't shaking out to be one of them')


His scum slip revealing TMI about how many claims mafia received, just for fun: https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/12994-terraria-mafia-1-dp1?page=15&post_number=443





Randomly puts vader back in his scum pile despite defending him: https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/12994-terraria-mafia-1-dp1?page=22&post_number=642

At this point he dis-appears and doesn't re-appear until its time to hammer. He places the final vote with no real apparent progression demonstrating what made him switch back to vader, even in his final vote says its to "avoid a no lynch".


It's ironic that 5/7 blatant defenses come after mikal starts showing doubt, much of the doubt mikal shows seems to stem from these interactions with ref period. Ref was always in supas camp until it was no longer viable to do so. 


#209
Lunatic
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@Mikal
If your not strengthener what are you? And you are saying you didn’t get a message from Ultra?
I'll ignore the first part, I did not get a message from ultra. 
#210
Lunatic
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@whiteflame
That being said, I think this whole thing is distracting and it seems town v town. I don’t love Luna’s Even Night addendum to his claim, but I can’t see him going this hard to distance himself from his scum partner. As for Resurget, maybe he hammered to get some towncred, but he had the opportunity to post a vote on me instead and it wouldn’t have been difficult to justify at that point. If he had, I could just as easily been the lynch since I was offering to self-hammer with WyIted’s assistance.

What if he had hammered you, you flip town, and it was later revealed that vader was scum anyway?

Then how bad does he look? Voting Vader here was his once chance to earn town cred, but he still did it after showing no progression of how he came to that conclusion after hard defending supa blatantly 5 times in a row.