Terraria Mafia #1 - DP2

Author: Mharman
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Terraria Mafia

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#241
Mikal
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I also don’t like the fact Luna is gaslighting me about the bad read. I followed the supa lynch until the very end and thought wf was a better choice but everyone can be wrong. Using that as excuse to get me to sheep seems sussy. Yeah the read sucked but you move on and I may be wrong again. 

But right now I’m really entertaining the unground split and want to start with ceru. 
#242
Mikal
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@ILikePie5
@Casey_Risk
@Ultracrepidarian
Go look up campfire and see if you see what I see. It’s not mechanically capable of healing poison effects in game 
#243
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@Mikal
After this dp we will see if someone dies of poison but even if they did it could be tv.
It couldn't, though. Mharman said that if someone was poisoned, it would be announced at the beginning of the day. Weren't you the one who asked?
#244
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@Casey_Risk
I asked Mharman and he told me both actions would be executed simultaneously, so that's not the issue here. Curious why you didn't ask him yourself. 
Been stuck doing tasks around the house and bringing my wife to the airport much of the day, so time ran away from me.

#245
whiteflame
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@Lunatic
Since you are still on this, I'll just say it. I am a vanilla. The loom mostly crafts things using mostly silk and the items are usually vanity based, thus I am vanilla. It's a huge part of the reason I wanted to lynch supa day phase one after savant CC'ed him. I still buy savant is a vanilla, but three vanillas was kind of a lot to buy.  I also thought I could bait a night kill with strengthener without much risk of CC'ing town with another role. I am probably going to regret saying this because now Pie and Ref are going to use this argument against me to say I am scum and I really didn't want to go down this rabbit hole. If your gonna lie as town, I feel like you gotta roll with it, fake it til you make it. But with Ultra saying he visited me I honestly have no clue unless I was blocked or something, because I don't have an active role. 
I have reason to townread you in spite of this due to how much and consistently you pushed on Vader, but I do feel validated sussing your claim now. This doesn't shift the needle much, but if Vader had somehow been town, this would look terrible.

#246
whiteflame
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Alright, I do want to give at least a basic set of reads to function from.

My town pile is Mikal (mod confirmed), Luna (extensively going after Vader), Savant (Vanilla CC and similarities with claim) and Banana (only protective role claimed).

Put Casey (Asceticizer basically confirmed), WyIted (role confirmed) and Pie (also pushed Vader and had some of the most solid reasoning for drawing attention to him) in as slight town. I at least have more reason to buy them as town than not, but they're a little more flexible atm.

That leaves four. I'd say Ultra is null/lean town until I get a fuller idea of how their role works and what they expected it to do to Luna. Joebob is just straight null. I don't have any clear idea of which camp I'd put him in.

That leaves two people that I've been convinced appear a bit scummy.

With Cerulean, I largely bought the claim initially, but it's hard to confirm and if scum know they don't have a Poisoner, I could see them making this fake claim. It's an opportunistic claim that could have employed the flip for pseudo-confirmation.

Luna has me convinced that my earlier read of Resurget was a bit hasty. I could see a world in which he hammers that lynch knowing that it's likely to happen anyway, and the lead-up to that choice makes the decision itself less clear. 

Before anyone says anything, I know a lot of these reads are based on claims. I'll have to go back through posts and get some behavioral analysis to further inform them, but I needed to start somewhere and this is where I'm at. PoE is between Ultra, Joebob, Cerulean and Resurget.


Now to take a break before I start working on a long ass RFD. Likely won't return to this read list until tomorrow, but I'll still try to engage.

#247
Lunatic
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@Mikal
I also don’t like the fact Luna is gaslighting me about the bad read. I followed the supa lynch until the very end and thought wf was a better choice but everyone can be wrong. Using that as excuse to get me to sheep seems sussy. Yeah the read sucked but you move on and I may be wrong again. 
But right now I’m really entertaining the unground split and want to start with ceru. 
woah woah woah when did I gaslight you about the bad read? Idek where you are getting that
#248
Lunatic
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@whiteflame
I have reason to townread you in spite of this due to how much and consistently you pushed on Vader, but I do feel validated sussing your claim now. This doesn't shift the needle much, but if Vader had somehow been town, this would look terrible.
I wasn’t pursuing him off of this alone, it just added weight to my suspicion of him
#249
Mikal
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@Lunatic
Didn’t mean it in a bad way. Just more like (your reads are shit so help me push). That is a good way to buddy me. I’m really not fully sure about you atm

Again ceru is a campfire and claiming they heal poison.  That apparently does not work that way in game 
#250
Lunatic
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@Mikal
Didn’t mean it in a bad way. Just more like (your reads are shit so help me push). That is a good way to buddy me. I’m really not fully sure about you atm
Again ceru is a campfire and claiming they heal poison.  That apparently does not work that way in game 
pretty sure I never said that btw
And yes I’m buddying you because your confirmed town. 

It would be nice if there was a legit reason you didn’t trust me other than some whack theory about me bussing. I made the same point to ref but I’ll make it to you.

Say you were copped innocent. It would be whack of me to continuously push you based on the theory that you were godfather. While it’s technically possible it shouldn’t be presumed true until a lylo scenario anyway. It’s just a random theory that you are choosing to believe, one that happens rarely btw. Your choosing to buy me bussing as opposed to just being legit town after pushing a successful scum read. There no basis for that, I’m just guilty until proven innocent. That’s some backwards ass logic


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#251
Mharman
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Vote Count

Resurget (4/7) - Cerulean, Lunatic, Wylted
Ultra (1/7) - Banana
Lunatic (1/7) - Resurget
Cerulean (1/7) - Mikal/Castin

Not Voting (6) Pie, Casey, Savant, Joebob, Whiteflame, Ultra

"The E.F.S of Winter" by Jason Garner and Vince de Vera, as featured in Don't Starve to Death.
Remixed by Scott Lloyd Shelly into "Deerclops" for Terraria.
#252
Ultracrepidarian
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Vtl res

See post #208
#253
JoeBob
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@Mharman
Remixed by Scott Lloyd Shelly into "Deerclops" for Terraria.
In my opinion derrclops is the worst boss in the game 
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#254
Mharman
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Vote Count

Resurget (5/7) - Cerulean, Lunatic, Wylted, Ultra
Ultra (1/7) - Banana
Lunatic (1/7) - Resurget
Cerulean (1/7) - Mikal/Castin

Not Voting (6) Pie, Casey, Savant, Joebob, Whiteflame

Weapon Spotlight: The Onyx Blaster. One of my personal favorites, and probably the reason why I'm one of the few who has never been scared of giant tortoises.
#255
JoeBob
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ok so what I’m getting at here is that, correct me if I’m wrong, but after finally finding out what cerulean role does, it mentions that usually it’s announced at the beginning of each day. So unless that thing is like an even-night use only, then he’s lying about it

#256
Lunatic
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Just curious why is  it out of the question that ceru could be a counter to iron messing up? Or even if he didn’t mess up it’s town conf if used.
#257
ResurgetExFavilla
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Please read every one of these posts, other town players. Me 'defending' Supa is just me investigating his slip, which was incredibly convoluted and confusing to multiple other players, and weighing the pros and cons of his flip. The 'scum slip' that Luna points out here was me thinking there were three full claims provided to the scum team, which caused me to think it would be insane for Supa to make up a vanilla fake claim in that scenario. Once that was cleared up and I realized that I had misread Mharman's post I changed my read on Supa 24 hours before the hammer and then hammered him.

Please, please, please do an iso on me. Read all my  posts. Multiple other players agreed woth me last DP and saw the Supa slip as debateable. Those people were on whiteflame's wagon at the end of the day, a wagon I was never on. A lot of them gave much worse reasoning for their reads. So why is Luna so fixated on me? He went hard against me as soon as I said I would be away from my computer and notes with limited internet access on a camping trip. This is a naked mislynch attempt on an easy target based on contrived reasoning being selectively apllied only to me. I might not be able to reply again. If you do end up mislynching me, please lynch Luna next DP.
#258
ResurgetExFavilla
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Can't respond at length now but anyone can do an iso on me right now and see this is am abject lie. Never did I ONCE put Mikal in my scum pile, I read him as town since the second he was confirmed and sought his help reading you.

I didn't say you put mikal in your scum pile, who is the one lying now? Wtf are you even talking about? Im guessing your drunk? Sounds like some good wine, share it with me next time. I said you were riding his coat tails and stopped boarding the supa train the second he did. 
You said I moved him to my town pile. He never left my town pile. To have moved him to my town pile he would have had to be in my scum pile at some point.

In case you forget, I got on the Supa train 24 hours before the DP ended while Mikal stayed off it till the bitter end. I've directly quoted the post several times - that outside a policy lynch of an inactive, Supa was my top scumread and that I would support a lynch.
#259
Lunatic
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@ResurgetExFavilla
On my phone so can’t line by line respond as easy, but I’ll address your main points.

1. My ISO post on you just links your posts for everyone to read, I didn’t soon anything. Those posts were all your own words in defense of a now confirmed scum.

2. You can’t use Mikal as an excuse because he’s confirmed town. I would be suspicious of him otherwise but like I said to Casey using Mikal as an example here is a moot point with him being confirmed.

2A: Plus you argued against Mikal and may have been one of the reasons he switched off supa in the first place

3: not being on Whiteflames wagon doesn’t save you, he was four votes away with a limiting time limit on the day phase expiring. Supa was one vote away from being lynched. If supa were to be lynched and found guilty later you would have looked really bad, at this point this was the most sensible lynch to earn last minute town cred

3B: You showed no progression from your read when you were last town reading and defending Vader to your post when you scum read him in your reads. You literally waited until it was the only option to even seem to heavily consider that lynch.

4. Stop using your schedule against me like I know or care about it. The day phase isn’t even halfway over you aren’t a risk of being lynched. I’m not taking advantage of your inactivity purposefully like you’re trying to make it out to be. You can respond to these posts whenever you want no one gives a fvck. 


Also in reference to post 258 please quote me, unless I was talking about you moving him from null to town based on the mod slip i still don’t know what your talking about.
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#260
Mharman
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Logging off for the night but before I go imma change my pfp rq. Too many people have blue pfps and that makes the mod a bit harder to see, I think
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#261
Mharman
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Done. This pfp is a png of the Phoenix Blaster, another weapon I like using.
#262
ILikePie5
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I’ll be on later tonight bear with me
#263
ILikePie5
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@whiteflame
My main issue with these as reasons for implicating Cerulean is that, unless someone else claims a means to do so, there is no response to the Poisoner role and we know at least one exists in this game. Maybe that's true - it's a 1X role and it's town, so it's possible there is no town response to someone being poisoned - but it seems weird for a role that gets a mod confirmed announcement to lack any means for town to address it. 
1x Poisoner for town is basically a Delayed Vig Shot for town. There doesn’t need to be a a Poison Healer to stop that. Having a scum Poisoner + NK is basically broken too.

It was also at best anti-town for Ceru to reveal his role considering that scum don’t know who the Poison Healer would be even if it existed.
#264
ILikePie5
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@Lunatic
You are ignoring the latter half of the reasons I pursued supa. At first he was just the best option. But then he wasn’t scum hunting, omgused and admitted hiding PM mistakes from town for self preservation reason which had contrasted behavior from a recent game and I pointed all this out many times during the late day phase surge to get him lynched.
That’s irrelevant to me because your initial “scumread” came based on flimsy logic imo
#265
ILikePie5
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@Ultracrepidarian
Vtl Luna

It's strange to me Luna can't attest to my visit. Granted, I think it would only be apparent if he had a night action to use last night. The new "even nights only" information seems like a convenient way to not verify me and to justify not strengthening anyone last night. 
Why did you choose to visit Luna?
#266
ILikePie5
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@Lunatic
Let's take a detailed look at Ref's scum read progression on Vader since he's calling me a liar. 


All Offenses where Ref defends vader:

Blatant 1st Offense: Ref immediately counter votes me when I place my vote on his scum buddy. https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/12994-terraria-mafia-1-dp1?page=8&post_number=240



(At this point he pretends to flip flop) https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/12994-terraria-mafia-1-dp1?page=14&post_number=400 (Notice here he even sets me up as scum bussing in the case vader is scum, can't ever give anyone appropriate town cred for pursual of this lynch lol)

Blatant 3rd Offense: https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/12994-terraria-mafia-1-dp1?page=14&post_number=397 (Defending his scum buddies fake claim against mikal)


Starts diminishing his read on Vader by saying it doesn't qualify as a "LAL thing": https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/12994-terraria-mafia-1-dp1?page=15&post_number=435 ('This isn't shaking out to be one of them')


His scum slip revealing TMI about how many claims mafia received, just for fun: https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/12994-terraria-mafia-1-dp1?page=15&post_number=443





Randomly puts vader back in his scum pile despite defending him: https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/12994-terraria-mafia-1-dp1?page=22&post_number=642

At this point he dis-appears and doesn't re-appear until its time to hammer. He places the final vote with no real apparent progression demonstrating what made him switch back to vader, even in his final vote says its to "avoid a no lynch".


It's ironic that 5/7 blatant defenses come after mikal starts showing doubt, much of the doubt mikal shows seems to stem from these interactions with ref period. Ref was always in supas camp until it was no longer viable to do so. 
Yes, he doesn’t look good at all, but do you think he’d be openly defending his scum partner like that? Genuine question 
#267
ILikePie5
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@Casey_Risk
I don't really see the benefit here. Like I said, assuming Ceru is town, it's highly unlikely that the scum team poisons somebody tonight. Otherwise, Cerulean could easily confirm his role, which just hurts the scum team even worse. Only way someone gets poisoned tonight is if Ceru himself is the NK. Letting Ceru live isn't informative here like it would be for a claimed DP3 Innocent Child, for instance.
Ya I know. I slept on it, and I don’t like his claim at all
#268
ILikePie5
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@Casey_Risk
Yeah, it's very weird and I don't know what to make of it. But I also don't think that Luna would likely lie about not receiving whatever it was that he was supposed to receive as scum. What's the upside for him?
Confusion, chaos. Make it easier to believe there is a Redirector or a similar role in place that is counterable by his Strengthener
#269
ILikePie5
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@Lunatic
Since you are still on this, I'll just say it. I am a vanilla. The loom mostly crafts things using mostly silk and the items are usually vanity based, thus I am vanilla. It's a huge part of the reason I wanted to lynch supa day phase one after savant CC'ed him. I still buy savant is a vanilla, but three vanillas was kind of a lot to buy.  I also thought I could bait a night kill with strengthener without much risk of CC'ing town with another role. I am probably going to regret saying this because now Pie and Ref are going to use this argument against me to say I am scum and I really didn't want to go down this rabbit hole. If your gonna lie as town, I feel like you gotta roll with it, fake it til you make it. But with Ultra saying he visited me I honestly have no clue unless I was blocked or something, because I don't have an active role. 
Even if you had told the truth, we would’ve lynched Supa over you because of the blatant contradiction. This flip flop now doesn’t make any sense at all and just muddies the picture even more.
#270
ILikePie5
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@Casey_Risk
It couldn't, though. Mharman said that if someone was poisoned, it would be announced at the beginning of the day. Weren't you the one who asked?

I asked Mharman and he said that it would be announced