Socialism: The New American Dream

Author: Kasmic ,

Topic's posts

Posts in total: 231
  • Kasmic
    Kasmic avatar
    Debates: 0
    Forum posts: 10
    0
    0
    2
    Kasmic avatar
    Kasmic
    "Staggering inequality and lack of social mobility have had a clear impact on how society views capitalism. In a recent poll, 36% of registered voters think the U.S. should move toward socialism and away from capitalism."

    https://medium.com/the-sensible-soapbox/socialism-the-new-american-dream-64720472293b

  • Greyparrot
    Greyparrot avatar
    Debates: 2
    Forum posts: 7,934
    3
    3
    8
    Greyparrot avatar
    Greyparrot
    36% of the people can't locate Venezuela on a world map apparently.
  • Kasmic
    Kasmic avatar
    Debates: 0
    Forum posts: 10
    0
    0
    2
    Kasmic avatar
    Kasmic
    --> @Greyparrot
    Sure, 36% of people hold a position you disagree with, they must be dumb...
  • Greyparrot
    Greyparrot avatar
    Debates: 2
    Forum posts: 7,934
    3
    3
    8
    Greyparrot avatar
    Greyparrot
    --> @Kasmic
    I'm just saying there are people who thought Hugo Chavez was a great man for the people and equalized the wealth.

    And there are people who don't have a clue what's going on in Venezuela right now or even where it is on the map.

    BTW my roommate is from Venezuela, and he thinks you are dumb.
  • Kasmic
    Kasmic avatar
    Debates: 0
    Forum posts: 10
    0
    0
    2
    Kasmic avatar
    Kasmic
    --> @Greyparrot
    I'm just saying that inferring that the 36% from the survey don't know geography or about current events because they disagree with you is asinine. 

    BTW it is unclear why I should care that your roommate is from Venezuela or that he thinks I am dumb. 

    In anycase, it seems you are more open to trolling on this website then in times past. Long time no see. 


  • Greyparrot
    Greyparrot avatar
    Debates: 2
    Forum posts: 7,934
    3
    3
    8
    Greyparrot avatar
    Greyparrot
    --> @Kasmic
    It's not a matter of opinion at this point to say Socialism has utterly devastated Venezuela.

  • triangle.128k
    triangle.128k avatar
    Debates: 0
    Forum posts: 372
    1
    1
    6
    triangle.128k avatar
    triangle.128k
    Socialism and Capitalism are both materialistic economic systems that rely on false premises and a degree of utopianism. 
  • Greyparrot
    Greyparrot avatar
    Debates: 2
    Forum posts: 7,934
    3
    3
    8
    Greyparrot avatar
    Greyparrot
    --> @triangle.128k
    Socialism and Capitalism are both materialistic economic systems that rely on false premises and a degree of utopianism. 

    Correct.

    Capitalism assumes all people to be equally able to be equally productive and Socialism assumes all people in the government are extremely competent and actually care about poor people at all times. Neither which will ever be true.

  • Ramshutu
    Ramshutu avatar
    Debates: 42
    Forum posts: 1,725
    6
    8
    10
    Ramshutu avatar
    Ramshutu
    --> @Kasmic
    Dont worry about this guy, he’s just trolling.

    At the moment, the right are petrified of more worker and people friendly legislation and the associated problems the conservative donor class will likely face, and so GP, as someone who has had his face sewn onto the anus of propagandizing conservative talking points is simplying echoing the current conservative trends whilst Trump shouts “feed her!” Beside him.

    The nuance here is that democratic socialism is not communism, or the type of controlled market of Venezuela. 50% of it is just the same type of thing that every other civilized country on the planet has, and would not give up, 40% is just the same type of thing as some other civilized countries have and who’s citizens would not give up, with the remaining 5% being interesting new policies along the same lines as the other 95%.

    Obviously, the conservative media are freaking out. The high earners will be taxed more, and if the type of Scandinavian approach to government was implemented, the actual benefits (rather than faux benefits where workers were promised to be looked after, only to have massive tax breaks for the wealthy and the whole host of policy moves that favor cororations over the little guy  ), to the individual works would be enough to keep conservatives out of power for a generation.

    Conservative media craps it out, GP swallows it, and as he can’t defend it, he’ll just troll with the occasional one liner, and nonsensical deflection.

  • triangle.128k
    triangle.128k avatar
    Debates: 0
    Forum posts: 372
    1
    1
    6
    triangle.128k avatar
    triangle.128k
    --> @Greyparrot
    You know what free market Capitalism also rests on? Assumptions that their theories will hold true. They claim that the market is always free and self-regulating, and that a lack of restrictions won't result in a corporate elite rising to power and "purchasing" the entire nation. 

    Greatly proven false...


    The solution would be systems such as Corporatism or Distributism, or anything that allows the government to keep the economy in check without focusing on some stupid and false utopian dream of Socialism.
  • Greyparrot
    Greyparrot avatar
    Debates: 2
    Forum posts: 7,934
    3
    3
    8
    Greyparrot avatar
    Greyparrot
    --> @triangle.128k
    You know what free market Capitalism also rests on? Assumptions that their theories will hold true. They claim that the market is always free and self-regulating, and that a lack of restrictions won't result in a corporate elite rising to power and "purchasing" the entire nation. 
    I'd say a good 90% of government regulations, especially the ones that limit opportunity and competition, are directly purchased by the 1%


  • triangle.128k
    triangle.128k avatar
    Debates: 0
    Forum posts: 372
    1
    1
    6
    triangle.128k avatar
    triangle.128k
    --> @Greyparrot
    Quite an exaggeration, and those are inevitable in a free market economy. The free market only lasts so long until the market ceases to be free, and becomes powerful enough to buy out the government. Soon enough, it buys out the soul of the nation. 
  • Greyparrot
    Greyparrot avatar
    Debates: 2
    Forum posts: 7,934
    3
    3
    8
    Greyparrot avatar
    Greyparrot
    --> @triangle.128k
    Not an exaggeration at all especially if you consider all the licensing and certifications inclusive as regulations limiting competition.
  • Polytheist-Witch
    Polytheist-Witch avatar
    Debates: 1
    Forum posts: 1,932
    2
    2
    3
    Polytheist-Witch avatar
    Polytheist-Witch
    --> @Ramshutu
    Not having the same opinion as someone doesn't make them a troll. 
  • Ramshutu
    Ramshutu avatar
    Debates: 42
    Forum posts: 1,725
    6
    8
    10
    Ramshutu avatar
    Ramshutu
    --> @Polytheist-Witch
    Of course not.

    Being a troll makes somronr a troll. Repeatedly failing to engage on any substance and instead rely on intentionally misleading and incendiary comments he won’t defend as the preferred method of discourse - makes someone a troll.

  • Greyparrot
    Greyparrot avatar
    Debates: 2
    Forum posts: 7,934
    3
    3
    8
    Greyparrot avatar
    Greyparrot
    --> @Polytheist-Witch
    I would be ok with this version of Sweden...not the garbage version politicians falsely claim just to grab power.
  • Polytheist-Witch
    Polytheist-Witch avatar
    Debates: 1
    Forum posts: 1,932
    2
    2
    3
    Polytheist-Witch avatar
    Polytheist-Witch
    --> @Greyparrot
    I am a big fan of school vouchers. I am very happy with the school system and my special needs child but if you are not or your child is gifted I see no reason to say in a crap school system. I have met some really outstanding home school parents and our Catholic schools are amazing here. Considering the low income use more services it makes sense. If the US could fund with no funding issue like the video shows Sweden did with pensions I would have no issue with day care and medical being funded by the Feds. Our politicians are not trust worthy enough to fund or programs and that is the problem in the US. But the politicians keep looking for someone else to blame. We need term limits and to get rid of lobbying. 
  • 3RU7AL
    3RU7AL avatar
    Debates: 1
    Forum posts: 5,308
    2
    3
    7
    3RU7AL avatar
    3RU7AL
    --> @Greyparrot
    I'm just saying there are people who thought Hugo Chavez was a great man for the people and equalized the wealth.
    And there are people who don't have a clue what's going on in Venezuela right now or even where it is on the map.
    BTW my roommate is from Venezuela, and he thinks you are dumb.
    A few bad examples do not completely disqualify a concept.
  • Greyparrot
    Greyparrot avatar
    Debates: 2
    Forum posts: 7,934
    3
    3
    8
    Greyparrot avatar
    Greyparrot
    --> @Polytheist-Witch
    I mean don't get me wrong, Sweden still has a lot of problems with heavy government regulation over private education industries, but the fact is that at some point, Sweden actually rolled back a lot of their regulations whereas (with the exception of Trump) USA has been steadily adding restrictive government regulations since FDR. I wouldn't mind paying a higher tax if the USA could drop the crony government regulations. Sadly, I don't see that happening with the current politics in the USA. Sweden only rolled back their government regulations because they were going bankrupt. The USA isn't quite there (yet)....
  • Greyparrot
    Greyparrot avatar
    Debates: 2
    Forum posts: 7,934
    3
    3
    8
    Greyparrot avatar
    Greyparrot
    --> @3RU7AL
    How much Socialism is too much then? Where would you draw the line?
  • Polytheist-Witch
    Polytheist-Witch avatar
    Debates: 1
    Forum posts: 1,932
    2
    2
    3
    Polytheist-Witch avatar
    Polytheist-Witch
    --> @Greyparrot
    No system is perfect. There is always some issue with some part of the any set up but Sweden found a honey hole and it's working for them. Again their politicians are working for them. Norway is the same way. Where the US played with SS money Norway invests their countries funds without pinching into it. It's their for the people and programs. 
  • 3RU7AL
    3RU7AL avatar
    Debates: 1
    Forum posts: 5,308
    2
    3
    7
    3RU7AL avatar
    3RU7AL
    --> @Greyparrot
    How much Socialism is too much then? Where would you draw the line?
    There is no magic formula.

    Each country has its own mix.  Sweden is not the same as Germany.  Finland is not the same as the UK.  Canada is not Japan.

    Even China and Russia are a MIX of socialism and capitalism.

    Profit motive does not always lead to best practices.  Free markets and deregulation are the playground of the billionaire class.

    Venezuela was destroyed by some combination of poor planning and bad management.

    If you see a fast-food establishment that goes out of business, do you instantly conclude that their business model is fundamentally flawed?

    Does this mean that all fast-food establishments will inevitably also go out of business?  No.  It was most likely caused by some combination of poor planning and bad management.
  • Greyparrot
    Greyparrot avatar
    Debates: 2
    Forum posts: 7,934
    3
    3
    8
    Greyparrot avatar
    Greyparrot
    --> @3RU7AL
    Where would you draw the line?
  • 3RU7AL
    3RU7AL avatar
    Debates: 1
    Forum posts: 5,308
    2
    3
    7
    3RU7AL avatar
    3RU7AL
    --> @Greyparrot
    Step One: [LINK]

    Step Two: [LINK]

  • Greyparrot
    Greyparrot avatar
    Debates: 2
    Forum posts: 7,934
    3
    3
    8
    Greyparrot avatar
    Greyparrot
    --> @3RU7AL
    Use english words please.

    Where would you draw the line?