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@Alec
I also sent you a friend request.
I'm not a member of Facebook (I have privacy concerns).
If your request went elsewhere, please let me know.
Death penelty
Posts
Total:
67
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@b9_ntt
If your request went elsewhere, please let me know.
The friend request was on Debateart. I can send you another one.
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@Alec
How much ignorance can one person present as argument. The government doesn't decide guilt or innocence or the death penalty. 4.1% innocent executions amounts 4,100 wrongful deaths in 100,000. Your statistic of 13 per 100,000 is rather pathetic by comparison. Get some remedial arithmetic lessons.
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@disgusted
4.1% innocent executions amounts 4,100 wrongful deaths in 100,000
Per 100,000 murderers, that's true. But not everyone is a murderer. If the homicide rate were 4 per 100,000, and the average murderer kills 2 people(some kill way more like Adam Lanza or Dylan Roof) then that essentially means that the odds of being convicted of murder in a certain year are 1 per 100,000. From there, only 4.1% of those are innocent. Out of the whole US population, the odds of being convicted for murder while innocent is about .08 per 100,000. This is less then the .13 innocent lives per 100,000 that tDP saves, albeit the rate was not what I thought it was.
What a child. bwuahahahahahahahah
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@Alec
The state has no business murdering people.
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@coal
The state does not murder people, they execute them. There is a difference.
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@Alec
What's the difference?
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@disgusted
The difference between murder and execution is the same as the difference between kidnapping and imprisonment. One is illegal and vigilantic, the other is not. Just as we imprison kidnappers, we should execute murderers.
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@Alec
So you don't have a difference, otherwise you wouldn't need an absurd comparison.
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@disgusted
otherwise you wouldn't need an absurd comparison.
It's not "absurd". It's better then the insults you have been using.
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@disgusted
Should I challenge you to a debate on the Death penalty? I'm willing to.
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@Alec
Have no doubts young one it is extremely absurd, I'm sure that if you learn how to think you will understand.
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@Alec
You've discovered how to spell the word, hoorah. You don't know enough about anything to challenge anyone about anything.
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@disgusted
You don't know enough about anything to challenge anyone about anything.
According to the leaderboard as of right now, I'm #3 on it. I think I can challenge and win debates pretty well. I'll be surprised if you can make it through all 4 rounds without insulting me or forfeiting.
12 days later
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@Alec
I support the death penalty for murder. If anyone wants to change my mind they are allowed to try.
Before I could.change your mind, assuming that was even my goal, I would first have to understand why you support the killing of a human being in response to the killing of a.human being in the first place.
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@secularmerlin
I support the death penalty(tDP) for murder because of the following contentions:
1: tDP is an effective deterrent for murder. The punishment should fit the crime.
2: Eye for an eye.
3: tDP reduces the homicide rate(https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1fno3SaXsJAt1SKTlKC-vVAjVJTgWvVJG5I0qKqM5Lbw/edit?usp=drive_web&ouid=112588562267875946799). This homicide difference according to my calculations is enough to save more innocent lives then the amount that die innocently from the execution chair.
4: If executions are public, tDP can be cheaper then life imprisonment due to ticket sales paying for the execution.
Thanks for being civil about this.
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@Alec
1 and 3 upon closer examination would seem to be the same reason but that still leaves us with three reasons to examine. Would you mind if we use the Socratic method to see if your goals align with your reasoning?
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@secularmerlin
What is the Socratic method?
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@Alec
My intention is to ask you a series of questions to see if your goals align with your reasoning. If you agree to the process that is.
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@secularmerlin
I'm fine with you asking questions.
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@Alec
Ok then let's begin. Is justice or revenge more important to your reasoning in supporting the death penalty.
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@secularmerlin
Justice is more important. I don't think that juries who excersize tDP are committing revenge. Saying that execution for murder is revenge is like saying imprisonment for kidnapping is revenge. It is Revenge is vigilantic. Justice is not.
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@Alec
Since your not sure what I'm going to say please don't get ahead of me. That is no way to get at the root of why you support the death penalty which we must do if we are to evaluate it's logical coherence
.if justice is more important than revenge then we can dismiss an eye for an eye as irrelevant as that is simply retribution not reasoned justice..
That leaves us with wanting the punnishment to fit the crime and the deterance of future murder.
Which of these two aspects of your argument would you like to examine next?
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@Alec
Life imprisonment is not strong enough for a crime like murder.
Couldn't you view life in prison as worse than being executed for murder? Let's assume that when a person dies, their consciousness dies along with them. The murderer is essentially having their life, and everything that entails, terminated, but it's also an escape from what they've done. One could view it as putting a demonstrably dangerous person out of their misery as they have no chance of redemption, they are too far gone and there is no chance of them being reintegrated and rehabilitated into society. Plus, many people kill themselves to escape justice or the feeling of guilt after committing crimes like murder, so idk if them dying really is worse than life in prison.
When you kill someone, their punishment ends the second they lose consciousness as opposed to them being subjected to a lifetime of sitting in incarceration, experiencing the 'pleasantries' of prison life, as life passes them by due to their actions. I'd say forcing someone to live with the guilt of what they've done, or simply denying them a way to kill themselves to escape their reality and situation, is worse than killing them. A lifetime in solitary confinement would be stronger than simply removing someone from existence.
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@secularmerlin
if justice is more important than revenge then we can dismiss an eye for an eye as irrelevant as that is simply retribution not reasoned justice
An eye for an eye is a form of justice. There are alternative forms, such as what anti-death penalty advocates want (generally life imprisonment for murder and in some countries, murderers aren't even in jail for the rest of their lives), but to the best of my knowledge, tDP is the superior form of justice because it can be cheaper if done in a profitable way and it saves more innocent life according to some research that I did.
Which of these two aspects of your argument would you like to examine next?
Out of my 2 arguments that it is cheaper under some situations and it saves lives, you can analyze either one.
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@SamStevens
Couldn't you view life in prison as worse than being executed for murder?
I'm pretty sure that living anyhow is better then not living at all.
One could view it as putting a demonstrably dangerous person out of their misery as they have no chance of redemption, they are too far gone and there is no chance of them being reintegrated and rehabilitated into society.
I think most murderers don't regret their decision to murder. I know most mass shooters kill themselves but out of the murderers, I don't think most kill themselves.
Plus, many people kill themselves to escape justice or the feeling of guilt after committing crimes like murder, so idk if them dying really is worse than life in prison.
I'm very scared of death, so I personally would rather have an air conditioned cell and 3 meals a day then to get executed if I were a murderer. If dying were not as harsh as life imprisonment, then a majority of murderers would commit suicide. Yet most don't.
A lifetime in solitary confinement would be stronger than simply removing someone from existence.
I don't think the typical murderer knows just how painful it is, so it's not much of a deterrent. If executions are public and broadcasted, and the murderers die a painful death, and it's told that they were a murderer, then it would deter murder by a lot.
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@Alec
Wanting someone to "pay" for what they have done is called retribution. It is easily conflated with justice but it is not the same. If retribution is as/more important we can include it in your criterion but we must acknowledge the difference in order to get at the root of why you really support the death penalty.An eye for an eye is a form of justice.
Now is it more important to you that people pay for what they have done or justice?
I don't trust the system enough for the death penalty. Locking a person up does more to punish them than death. Course some people want prison to be like club med.
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@Alec
Is killing people right or wrong?