An exceedingly simple question

Author: Discipulus_Didicit

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@Tradesecret
What do you mean by religion? and what do you mean by right? And what do you mean by believe?
It's very strange that all of a sudden you loose your capacity for understanding words you've been using for years, did someone say fucking liar?

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@Tradesecret
Yet James' description is not the same as the modern view of religion
I think you are right that 'religion' has become a matter of tribal identity rather than of spiritual belief.

Stephen - who I dislike intensely - posted this video which shows that very clearly:


Those guys were not motivated by muslim theology but by group identity.


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@Outplayz

If you think about it, i don't have to worry about anyone else's belief, nor do you have to worry about anyone else's belief. Bc it is all subjective to what you want, what you work for, what you live for, and what you get. I don't have to go to your paradise, and you don't have to go to mine, or we can both believe the same paradise and go to it... It would explain why there are so many different beliefs. Bc if you ask people one at a time to define paradise... you will start to see a very different picture than only one being true.

It sounds like a comforting idea, but does that actually have anything to do with whether the idea is correct?
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@Tradesecret
What do you mean by religion? and what do you mean by right? And what do you mean by believe?

I don't see any use in using convoluted technically-accurate non-colloquial definitions for words just to sound like what I am saying actually has some deep and impactful meaning that isn't actually present at all.. When I ask a question or make a statement I say what I mean and nothing more. Language is meant for communication, not rhetoric.

And moreover, by what measure are you going to use to determine whether my believe is reasonable or not?
That is an accurate re-wording of my question, yes. I think you get it.

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@Discipulus_Didicit
Religion ?  is a human construct...all are built on BRAINWASHING techniques..

#1  Expose the VICTIM to the GOD.....by it's name....i.e.  ALLAH....JESUS....KRISHNA.....(the JEW GOD is not addressed by name just "GOD")

Then proceed to super saturate the VICTIMS BRAIN = Neural Network with 24 / 7  with "GOD"  VOMIT...Church-Mosque-Temple and their psychotic
Dogma, along with PRIMARY reading Comic Book garbage = Bible..Torah...Koran +++ all manner of mind MOLESTING METHODS and MEDIA

RESULT =  A hypnotized and brainwashed sheeple drone zombie in servitude and slavery to the Con Artist Preacher and/or Organization that
assimilated them into their CULT....much the same as a Parasite VAMPIRE does to its VICTIM...(sucks the life out of them and leaves them 
in a zombie servitude state)

the BELIEF and DEFENSE of some idiotic RELIGION is no different then how the Military conditions recruits to surrender their MIND and LIFE
for the CAUSE...the CAUSE is defined by the organization that will use them for whatever serves their agenda including EXTERMINATION of 
self and others who pose a threat to their CAUSE...

Religion is a clever COVER for assimilation and BRAINWASHING into CULT SLAVERY....the Middle East "GOD" constructs which include
the JEW-JESUS-ALLAH Gods are a total HOAX for power and control...using FEAR - INTIMIDATION - VIOLENCE as the foundation

of the 3 invented GODS ...only the JESUS and ALLAH parasite VAMPIRES actively assimilate new zombies into their CHURCH and MOSQUE CULT Concentration Camps...

Many FAR EAST "GODS",  "Divine Beings",  and spiritualities are not MIND and LIFE THREATENING like the Middle East Jew - Jesus - Allah
"GOD" CULTS...the Far East approach is to seek enlightenment without FEAR-INTIMIDATION-VIOLENCE and threats of such methods for 
not accepting the ideology...

For the most part a STUPID BRAINWASHED Middle East Religious moron ends up as a THREAT to others.this aspect is built into the JEW-
JESUS-ALLAH Dogma....for those who oppose or do not adhere to the JEW-JESUS-ALLAH Dogma they are subjected to HARASSMENT
-EXECUTION-SHUNNING-TORTURE both physically and economically...ultimately these Religions follow the COMMUNIST approach of
total CONTROL and OPPRESSION using their idiot invented "GOD" hoax as a scapegoat for atrocities...

No HUMAN needs any idiotic "GOD" and/or Concentration Camp CULT Religion to EXIST - THRIVE - DIE...."GOD" is a clever SCAPEGOAT
TOOL used and abused by Religious PSYCHOPATH Parasite VAMPIRES for CONTROL.....it's all Comic Book GARBAGE for FOOLS....

Those who act like they BELIEVE have simply been DECEIVED into CULT worship and servitude = SLAVERY....

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@Discipulus_Didicit
It sounds like a comforting idea

And so would it sound like a comforting idea to God as well?? if not, why?

but does that actually have anything to do with whether the idea is correct?

Would you put limits on an eternal Creator/Higher consciousness? what about it strikes you as incorrect... say.....if you were God and there were countless souls, cultures, traditions, communities, interests, passions, desires ect ect whithin your own creation?

Warning: Rambling coming lol
When souls leave the physical body they don't just vanish the soul keeps on experiencing, the after worlds or what some hypothesize as the multiverses are much like our own universe. All the created worlds (including the one's experienced after death) have virtually endless galaxies and planets within those galaxies. Basically there are endless experiences for the soul to have, endless places to journey. People and religion tend to limit God and try too hard to categorize the Creator and fit God into little religious boxes. God is much more dynamic and creative then anyone could imagine. As we see with NDE's and sources that examine soul travel and the subtle bodies (or spirit bodies) there can be different experiences and encounters some of which has to do with the Karma of the individual or what condition they are in leaving the physical world.

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@Discipulus_Didicit
Why do you believe your religion is right?
I don't.
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@Discipulus_Didicit
Your original answer to the OP mentioned that you have evidence that your beliefs are true, would you mind giving us one or two examples of the strongest evidence you have?

Here is what I wrote....
"I believe there are transcendental (spiritual) experiences because of the abundance of evidence as well as my own observations and encounters."

The abundance of evidence (understanding that "evidence" is that which is an indicator something is true, as opposed to it not being true) that the soul leaves the physical body is observed through NDE testimonies, OBE's, spiritual encounters, transcendental experiences, soul travel, religious teachings/sources ect ect. There is more testimonial based evidence for spirituality than any other topic. I've looked at the materialistic approach to consciousness and I find it lacking, and does not account for the full scope of human experience. This is my opinion of course, and my judgment interpreting the evidence which includes my own encounters and observations.
To answer your question, there isn't just one or two examples of testimonial evidence, there are mounds of evidence if you include spirituality as a whole, examine NDE's and cross referencing spiritual sources. Now, the reason we shift to testimonial based evidences is due to the nature of the Creator. Since the nature of the Creator transcends the physical sense experience a material based medium or study such as say how science operates is inadequate, we can't reach or observe the reality of God through anything other than spirituality and examining the evidence which correlates with that nature. And when we are willing to do that, the evidences are unavoidable, to not even consider it would be IMO intellectually dishonest.


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@WisdomofAges
Nobody cares.
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@EtrnlVw
The abundance of evidence (understanding that "evidence" is that which is an indicator something is true, as opposed to it not being true) that the soul leaves the physical body is observed through NDE testimonies, OBE's, spiritual encounters, transcendental experiences, soul travel, religious teachings/sources ect ect. 

I asked for you to choose just one or at most two similar pieces of the strongest evidence you can think of not because I wanted to limit you but instead because it is easier to have a two-way conversation about a few things at a time than to have a two-way conversation about ten things at a time.

Also, 'evidences' is not the correct plural form of evidence.
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@Discipulus_Didicit
Also, 'evidences' is not the correct plural form of evidence.
Evidenceae? Evidenci?

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Hey ET
Have you worked out yet that in post 51 you 'QUOTED" and "RESPONDED" to a post that wasn't mine. Never worry about senility it will never overtake your gross stupidity.
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@EtrnlVw
 ?????????????? ..........What do you think of religions or doctrines that say everything about the Creator comes from one source, like the Bible?

W O A = TRUTH.....the BIBLE is a human fabricated and glorified Comic Book FARCE full of idiotic characters drowning in FEAR and OPPRESSION
                                to not OFFEND some absurd "GOD" invented HOAX...

                                there is NO unified BIBLE....or unified BELIEVERS...all are HYPNOTIZED into Parasite VAMPIRE CULTS = CHURCH
                                The CHURCH is nothing more than a FACADE for organized CULT con artists...all are built on a foundation of FEAR and
                                INTIMIDATION....many resort to VIOLENCE to subdue and keep their sheeple drone slaves trapped in their MAZE without
                                an exit.....all who do NOT CONFORM are guaranteed HELL...HELL in LIFE and HELL in DEATH = VAMPIRE

                               
BIBLE ?  which one...there are so many versions and rewrites none are of ORIGINAL CONTENT....The JEW started this garbage with their so 
called TORAH...then the Christian psychopath MIND and LIFE MOLESTERS spun in into their own Comic Book VOMIT rife with totally idiotic
verses for the truly IGNORANT and ILLITERATE FOOL....just to stupid to use their own BRAIN to think and reason INTELLIGENTLY...no just
look up some Bible VERSE VOMIT as the excuse...why THINK at ALL...and that is the point....DO NOT THINK...DO NOT QUESTION....OBEY

OBEY like some dog chained to a cage wall......and constantly UNDER THREAT if it does NOT DO EXACTLY what its MASTER COMMANDS

This is the essence of the Middle East BIBLE- TORAH - KORAN Comic Book >>>GARBAGE>>>for total mind and life CONTROL by HUMAN
Parasite VAMPIRES that must have absolute POWER and CONTROL over their HYPNOTIZED shheple drone FOOLS...

No human EVER needs to be APPROVED and VALIDATED to EXIST and DIE by some Bible and fake "GOD" hoax fabricated Parasite VAMPIRE
that PLAYS "GOD"  and forces the idiot followers to do all the filthy dirty work of implementing FEAR - INTIMIDATION - VIOLENCE to suite their
SICK agenda for POWER and CONTROL............ over the masses of ASSES......who fall for this crap...

Are YOU to STUPID to think and reason on behalf of YOUR own HEALTH and WELLNESS ?   if YES, then YOU deserve to be HYPNOTIZED
and ASSIMILATED into some retarded RELIGIOUS CULT and ROT....

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@Discipulus_Didicit
I asked for you to choose just one or at most two similar pieces of the strongest evidence you can think of not because I wanted to limit you but instead because it is easier to have a two-way conversation about a few things at a time than to have a two-way conversation about ten things at a time.

Perhaps you don't understand, I'm not using one or two pieces of evidence (I know you're asking for that but it's not necessary), I'm considering testimonial evidence as a whole, which includes all that I mentioned. If you want a couple examples, I can send you a link where NDE encounters are shared along with corroborating medical facts. There is no single piece of evidence that form my beliefs, my beliefs are based on a lifetime of observation and examining sources which includes cross referencing. But, as I've said my own encounters and observations are what really matters in terms of gaining confidence and knowing rather than guessing or assuming. My own observation includes direct encounters as well as the application of spiritual principles and teachings.
Can you accept that as a legit or satisfactory answer? if not then you will have to explain why you won't consider it. I'm just speaking for myself though since you asked. I know it comes across as possibly strange to be talking about testimonial evidence,  but you have to consider what I'm saying. The nature of God is transcendental to the physical sense perception, that eliminates the type of evidence we would gather through a scientific way of observing a phenomenon, this leaves us with experiential knowledge and first hand observations. The only other way to observe Theism is by getting involved, applying things and participating. If you do none of that, it's like asking someone to learn how to play guitar without ever picking it up or practicing. Spirituality is a cultivation, it has a progressive nature to it which is the development of the individual.
Can we have a two-way conversation about what I just wrote?


Also, 'evidences' is not the correct plural form of evidence.

If you're going to play grammar police, you will have your hands full. I'd rather just move forward without the lessons thanks.
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Picking your religion is the same as saying you know the true holy book is ummmmmmmmmm this one. 
Or that one. 

If god himself didn't tell you what religious group to be in then you just picked and like , that aint very religious. 
I put it down to theists being TOTALLY AWESOME RELIGIOUS GROUP PICKERS. 
For example, every theist on this site correctly picked the correct religious group to join. 
GREAT PICKERS, Great pickers the lot of em. 

I too am still looking for the link between between believing in god and joining a religious group.  
 


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@EtrnlVw
Perhaps you don't understand, I'm not using one or two pieces of evidence (I know you're asking for that but it's not necessary), I'm considering testimonial evidence as a whole, which includes all that I mentioned.

Okay so would you say that testimonial evidence is your main reason for believing what you do about spirituality? In other words if there were no such testimonials you would be less likely to believe the way you do?

Can you accept that as a legit or satisfactory answer? if not then you will have to explain why you won't consider it.

If you will allow me to simplify to just saying 'testimonial evidence' in general to save time typing then I have no problem with that answer. In your previous post I was a bit, overwhelmed I guess for lack of a better word, by your listing out of all the different kinds of testimonials. It did not cross my mind to simply condense to the idea of testimonials in general. I am okay with that if you are.

If you're going to play grammar police, you will have your hands full. I'd rather just move forward without the lessons thanks.

Okay, as long as I understand what you are trying to say I won't mention anything. If you notice the same of me I wouldn't mind you pointing it out though. I try to use as clear and proper language as possible so if I am unknowingly screwing it up and you point it out then you are helping me.
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@Discipulus_Didicit
Okay so would you say that testimonial evidence is your main reason for believing what you do about spirituality? In other words if there were no such testimonials you would be less likely to believe the way you do?

If there were no testimonials I would be squarely left with my own observation, logic and reasoning. If there were no testimonials that would eliminate religion entirely, as its based on personal observation and applications and recorded. Since religion and spirituality are the study of that nature, without it there wouldn't be much to compare to. To me it's obvious that a Creator exists and the universe was created, and while that's no argument that is my own conviction. Since I do have that conviction, I weigh the arguments (what I call surface level arguments), examine religious claims and spirituality as a whole and use cross referencing and my own encounters and experience as my strongest tool of observing what may be true, or IMO what is true.

If you will allow me to simplify to just saying 'testimonial evidence' in general to save time typing then I have no problem with that answer. In your previous post I was a bit, overwhelmed I guess for lack of a better word, by your listing out of all the different kinds of testimonials. It did not cross my mind to simply condense to the idea of testimonials in general. I am okay with that if you are.

Yes, we can judge it as a whole. This allows for cross examination. So yes, I don't mind if we simplify it to just testimonial evidence, which BTW includes my own. So, I'm not just going by other peoples testimonies, I'm considering them with my own.

Okay, as long as I understand what you are trying to say I won't mention anything. If you notice the same of me I wouldn't mind you pointing it out though. I try to use as clear and proper language as possible so if I am unknowingly screwing it up and you point it out then you are helping me.

I think everything at this point should be pretty clear. One thing to remember about me is that I've been studying and applying religion and spirituality since I was a young kid on my own accord. So I have had a lot of time to observe what is going on.

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@Deb-8-a-bull
"GOD" is an acronym = G  genius  O of  D deception....all are human constructs....many have come and gone like the idiot humans
that invented them...

SO....where did all of the "GODS" go ?    they are supreme omnipotent beings ?   did they go on vacation ?  retire ?
or accept that humans are not interested in worshipping them anymore ?   

The GODS have idiotic Religious Parasite VAMPIRE organizations attached to them...the GODS are nothing more than 
Comic Book characters...the intent of the CULT organizations is POWER and CONTROL...simple as that...all are worthless
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WAKE up HUMAN..you are being played by other very clever con artist Parasite VAMPIRES...who could care less if
YOU are dead or alive....OBEY...shut up and serve...then DIE FOOL....simple as that...

No human needs the idiot NO SHOW NON EXISTENT GODS to exist and thrive...get rid of these absurd Comic Book
fantasies for power and control of the mind and life into slavery of CON ARTIST SCUM that play the "GOD" role
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@EtrnlVw
So yes, I don't mind if we simplify it to just testimonial evidence, which BTW includes my own. So, I'm not just going by other peoples testimonies, I'm considering them with my own.

That is certainly fine by me. Would you feel comfortable going into detail on any experiences that you have had which you would classify as such personal testimony before I start to ask any questions?
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@Discipulus_Didicit
Why do you believe your religion is right? >>>>>>  YOU ASK.......

because when a weak minded FOOL is trapped and brainwashed by a clever GOD CULT VAMPIRE
the victim becomes unaware of his/her PARALYSIS of thinking and reasoning...a ZOMBIE
a sheeple slave drone is the result   

the point of the CULT - RELIGION - CHURCH - TEMPLE - MOSQUE - and Comic Book Bible/Torah/Quran 
verse VOMIT is to saturate the BRAIN to accept and habituate the GOD VOMIT to the point of absolute
acceptance and OBEDIENCE..same as training a DOG to OBEY...simple as that

HUMAN DOG TRAINING = CHURCH - TEMPLE - MOSQUE...are these humans enlightened ?  joyful
expressing open minded acceptance and support..NO WAY..these Middle east GOD Parasites are
MISERABLE beaten down humiliated and threatened weak minded human DOGS...always under
FEAR....they act nice and friendly but under the fake facade they are HORRIFICALLY MISERABLE...

and want others to share the MISERY...they use LOVE and VOMIT the word like it's all that matters

The TRUTH is that OBEDIENCE and SERVITUDE to the CULT MATTERS...the sheeple drone is 
always expendable..and used to do all the filthy DEATH and DESTRUCTION activity for the LEAD 
Parasite VAMPIRE CULT preacher psychopath

Just walk away from these IDIOTS and let them ROT in their GOD TOILET...and CONCENTRATION
CAMP Church - Temple - Mosque





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Religion + GOD + Church + Comic Book Bible verse VOMIT + Dogma =  Mentally disturbed human sheeple drone servant of a CULT

Same goes for all of the Religions and their IDIOT GOD hoax attached to it....SO ?  so WHAT ?   then YOU DROP DEAD...and then WHAT ?

Did YOU live your LIFE to the fullest...did YOU experience your body and Earth to explore with it...?
Did YOU use your imagination to create and manifest a wonderful existence full of JOY and PLEASANT MEMORIES ?

DID YOU LIVE ?  or did you waste away waiting...begging...praying...for SALVATION because YOU are a hopeless "BORN SINNER"
and you must SUFFER for your CRIME of even existing....

YOU WILL BE DEAD a lot LONGER than YOU are ALIVE...FOOL...waste this precious temporary existence with prayer and chasing 
some human fabricated idiot GOD construct....and YES you are GOING TO HELL for disregarding this extraordinary HUMAN LIFE 
form experience....actually your already IN HELL....by your own NEGLIGENCE of self and the well being of others....ZOMBIE
your already D E A D.......



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@Discipulus_Didicit
It sounds like a comforting idea, but does that actually have anything to do with whether the idea is correct?
One of the best parts of this sort of view is that there are multiple platforms which would allow for such implications. And in my opinion, all of the most philosophically logical platforms such as non-duality, monism type platforms, higher consciousness, etc. on that line, allow for such a truth (which are platforms that i can logically defend the most). But is the idea correct? I can't answer that... no one can answer that. If anyone tells you their belief is correct, they're lying. I just piece together all the current knowledge i have, all the reasoning and logic i can put behind a spiritual platform, what even our current science and technology would points towards, and i would say it isn't an impossible belief. In the end of the day, i'm crossing my fingers it's right. I am starting to really suspect it though, i can say that.   

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@Discipulus_Didicit
That is certainly fine by me. Would you feel comfortable going into detail on any experiences that you have had which you would classify as such personal testimony before I start to ask any questions?

Let me ask two questions, how do you feel about what I've said so far or what do you think about it?
Do you understand fully what I mean about the nature of Theism?

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@EtrnlVw
How do you feel about what I've said so far or what do you think about it?

I believe it is certainly not impossible that something supernatural plays some sort of role in our reality, I simply think it is more likely that It does not.

Do you understand fully what I mean about the nature of Theism?

No but I think it is important that I do which is why my next question after you responded to my inquiry about your personal experiences was going to be to ask you to give an explanation about what precisely you believe regarding spirituality.
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@Outplayz
But is the idea correct? I can't answer that... no one can answer that. If anyone tells you their belief is correct, they're lying.

I think based on our conversation in the other thread that you are mistaking my question for an assumption that you are 100% certain. I hope you now see that I, like most people, acknowledge that belief and certainty are not synonymous. If a person believes something they usually mean that they think that what they believe is more likely to be correct.

In light of this I would like to ask again why you think it is the case that a person's afterlife is determined by what that person believes the afterlife will be like. I acknowledge that you don't claim absolute certainty, I never said that you do claim absolute certainty, but you have said you do think it is the case so I would like to know why you think that.
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@Discipulus_Didicit
No

Before we jump into the below I cannot make sense of anything else unless you understand this one part. You do (or don't) ....understand the difference between the nature of the physical sense perception (the material universe) vs the nature of spirituality (spirit), which is what religion and Theism are putting forward? I'm not asking if you believe it, I'm asking you do you know what that means at all?

but I think it is important that I do which is why my next question after you responded to my inquiry about your personal experiences was going to be to ask you to give an explanation about what precisely you believe regarding spirituality.

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@EtrnlVw
You do (or don't) ....understand the difference between the nature of the physical sense perception (the material universe) vs the nature of spirituality (spirit), which is what religion and Theism is putting forward? I'm not asking if you believe it, I'm asking you do you know what that means at all?

Yes I do understand the difference between those two things, just as I understand that those who do consider themselves spiritual often have different ideas about the nature of spirituality in the same way that people might have different ideas about the physical universe. That is the reason I wanted to hear your idea about the nature of spirituality from your own mouth, I want to make as few assumptions about what you actually believe as I possibly can.
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@Discipulus_Didicit
Yes I do understand the difference between those two things, just as I understand that those who do consider themselves spiritual often have different ideas about the nature of spirituality in the same way that people might have different ideas about the physical universe.

Whoa wait a minute, they might have different ideas about what constitutes spirituality or what the purpose is, but there should be no dispute about the nature of it. Meaning that which transcends the physical sense perception... "immaterial". They may even have different names for it like spirit, life force, consciousness, soul ect ect but they all point to the very same observation as opposed to the material experience/observation. 

That is the reason I wanted to hear your idea about the nature of spirituality from your own mouth, I want to make as few assume about what you actually believe as I possibly can.

The nature of it is simple, it's that which goes beyond the physical sense perception....such as when a soul is forced to observe it like with NDE's. There can be many, many different types of experience once the soul leaves the physical body or practices how to observe that experience before death. 
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Whoa wait a minute, they might have different ideas about what constitutes spirituality or what the purpose is, but there should be no argument about the nature of it.

Semantics. What "constitutes" spirituality and what the "purpose" of spirituality is are, in colloquial language, subsets of what its "nature" is just as much as 'the fact that It transcends the physical sense perception' is a subset of its "nature".

If you want to argue that tangent then feel free to do so alone. I don't see the point though. I think you understand the meaning behind my question well enough and if re-wording it in your mind to "what constitutes spirituality?" or "how do you think it all works?" makes you feel better then by all means do so. It doesn't bother me a bit.